Prospect Info: 2025 Draft discussion

[Jacob]

I dunno Hughes has f***ed up his shoulder several times. He's good at avoiding contact but the few times he's gotten into a bad spot he's tended to get injured.

Hughes is also an interesting case given how badly he struggled his first season or two in the league. He's become dominant since then but it's weird that it took him two seasons to get there.

First player to jump straight from USNTDP to NHL.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ughhhhhh

Not sure why you would say this in this draft.

After the top 5. Taking the safe pick with our prospect group is the smart move.

If you had multiple 1sts different story. But Dubas sucks.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not sure why you would say this in this draft.

After the top 5. Taking the safe pick with our prospect group is the smart move.

If you had multiple 1sts different story. But Dubas sucks.

I just hate safe players at this point. It just means future Cody Glasses.

I am utterly unenthused by our options out of the top 5, and I have no faith in management.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Anyone can win a couple games lol.

Someone should tell that to the Pens.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Someone should tell that to the Pens.

We should try it, as a treat.

 

[Gurglesons]

I just hate safe players at this point. It just means future Cody Glasses.

I am utterly unenthused by our options out of the top 5, and I have no faith in management.

Cody Glass’s career has been ruined by injuries. Happily take a prospect that looked like him at 5-10 in this draft.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Cody Glass’s career has been ruined by injuries. Happily take a prospect that looked like him at 5-10 in this draft.

If we must, but as a compromise, please fire Mike Sullivan before said prospect comes to training camp.

 

[Andy99]

High floor, low ceiling players are worthless for us…take them in the second round…have to go for greatness, although with Mike “low event” Sullivan on the bench our top five draft pick probably won’t see any more than 8 minutes, and not even that if he doesn’t PK lol

 

[Gurglesons]

If we must, but as a compromise, please fire Mike Sullivan before said prospect comes to training camp.

I mean, I’m not sure what people expect. Cody Glass types are taken regularly in the 5-10 range.

High floor, low ceiling players are worthless for us…take them in the second round…have to go for greatness, although with Mike “low event” Sullivan on the bench our top five draft pick probably won’t see any more than 8 minutes, and not even that if he doesn’t PK lol

I’d disagree. Dubas is trying to rebuild the farm. If you aren’t getting a top 5 pick take the safe pick because we have nothing. If you get an additionally 1st sure.

 

[Andy99]

I mean, I’m not sure what people expect. Cody Glass types are taken regularly in the 5-10 range.



I’d disagree. Dubas is trying to rebuild the farm. If you aren’t getting a top 5 pick take the safe pick because we have nothing. If you get an additionally 1st sure.

No, we have to take a risk in the first round…take those players in the second round or later

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, I’m not sure what people expect. Cody Glass types are taken regularly in the 5-10 range.

I mean, if we're posting about wants and not reality, I would rather we take a more physical or boom-bust type. It's not BPA or whatever, I'm just bored of watching this brand of hockey and feel that these kind of players are not the kind of players I enjoy watching, plus they so rarely develop into anything but bottom 6ers.

"Defensively responsible" and "two way potential" and "deceptive hands" are all ways of saying "boring as shit and offensively mediocre", and I'm honestly not here to watch boring hockey nor do I want to stick my peen in a spreadsheet, no offense to half this board who apparently does on a regular basis.

No, we have to take a risk in the first round…take those players in the second round or later

I mean we don't have to, but I'd like us to think creatively about the draft instead of like actuaries.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, we have to take a risk in the first round…take those players in the second round or later

Taking a risk with a top 5 pick is moronic.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

"Defensively responsible" and "two way potential" and "deceptive hands" are all ways of saying "boring as shit and offensively mediocre", and I'm honestly not here to watch boring hockey nor do I want to stick my peen in a spreadsheet, no offense to half this board who apparently does on a regular basis.

I notice you didn't include "Great at the PK"... I see you....

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, if we're posting about wants and not reality, I would rather we take a more physical or boom-bust type. It's not BPA or whatever, I'm just bored of watching this brand of hockey and feel that these kind of players are not the kind of players I enjoy watching, plus they so rarely develop into anything but bottom 6ers.

"Defensively responsible" and "two way potential" and "deceptive hands" are all ways of saying "boring as shit and offensively mediocre", and I'm honestly not here to watch boring hockey nor do I want to stick my peen in a spreadsheet, no offense to half this board who apparently does on a regular basis.

Glass was a high IQ offensive center in his draft year.

 

[Andy99]

Taking a risk with a top 5 pick is moronic.

Not top five…anything lower

 

[HandshakeLine]

Taking a risk with a top 5 pick is moronic.

If we're picking top 5, it's a different game. I'm talking 'bout picking 10ish.

But also, I just hate "complete players" and "positional d-men." They're always just such turds and people just keep fapping to imaginary advanced stats to justify their extremely mediocre careers.

Glass was a high IQ offensive center in his draft year.

All the scouting reports I remember reading were about how he was so defensively responsible and two-way and had a high IQ but the results weren't... quite there. I dunno, it's been, what, 8 years since Cody Glass was drafted? I could be misremembering him in particular, but I still stand firm on the idea that safe draft picks are useless to us in our situation.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not top five…anything lower

Not sure what this even means. Every pick after the top 5 is a reach this year.

If we're picking top 5, it's a different game. I'm talking 'bout picking 10ish.

But also, I just hate "complete players" and "positional d-men." They're always just such turds and people just keep fapping to imaginary advanced stats to justify their extremely mediocre careers.


All the scouting reports I remember reading were about how he was so defensively responsible and two-way and had a high IQ but the results weren't... quite there. I dunno, it's been, what, 8 years since Cody Glass was drafted? I could be misremembering him in particular, but I still stand firm on the idea that safe draft picks are useless to us in our situation.

Cody Glass was top 5 in skill in that draft.

 

[Andy99]

Not sure what this even means. Every pick after the top 5 is a reach this year.

And none of the top five are high floor low ceiling players…they all have tremendous upside…they’re not Cody Glass’s in waiting …

 

[HandshakeLine]

Cody Glass was top 5 in skill in that draft.

Was he now? Then I stand corrected for using him as an example, though in my defense, you'd hardly know it by his career since then if you didn't know about his injury history.

But my larger point remains-- landing another 2/3rd line tweener isn't really helping the rebuild at this point. Those guys are important, sure, but only once you have a foundation to build around. Too many of those guys means a club like we have now, or any of the myrriad of other failures in the NHL ala, the Sabres, Minnesota, etc.

Like yeah, those guys are statistically more likely to make the NHL, but who cares? That's thinking like an actuary and not as a fan of the game. That's moneyball masturbation for the dorks with stats degrees. There's always room for mediocre guys from Boston or Saskatoon in the NHL because rosters need plugs and vanilla guys who the coach likes but don't hurt or help the team, and have good granular statlines.

But they're not going to do shit for a rebuild, which we should be well into if we're being honest with ourselves. The only thing that is going to help the rebuild actually start and proceed is by drafting players that have an identity and some sort of skill, whatever skill that may be (hitting people, shooting the puck, making plays, etc.).

Hell, if all the C available by the time we pick in the late first third of draft are these sort of blah two-way guys, why not draft some D? We need them just as much because lord knows Letang is a waste of a roster spot and Dubas can't seem to sign UFAs to save his miserable life.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If you want a tl;dr, my whole point is basically: guys hyped for two-way play or playmaking skill but aren't top 5 rarely amount to much, so let's draft something more exciting.

I'd love to see us draft a mobile, hard-hitting blueliner, for example. Or a powerforward. Or a guy that has sick dangles but doesn't PK, not just weird 5' nothing" guys who put up a zillion points in a roller league in Omaha, NE or guys named Cooture (the e is silent) from Manitoba who work hard, drink milk, and always listen to their coaches.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you want a tl;dr, my whole point is basically: guys hyped for two-way play or playmaking skill but aren't top 5 rarely amount to much, so let's draft something more exciting.

I'd love to see us draft a mobile, hard-hitting blueliner, for example. Or a powerforward. Or a guy that has sick dangles but doesn't PK, not just weird 5' nothing" guys who put up a zillion points in a roller league in Omaha, NE or guys named Cooture (the e is silent) from Manitoba who work hard, drink milk, and always listen to their coaches.

Celebrini was way more hyped than Bedard for his two way game.

To be honest, this just reads like half this board who pays no attention to prospects or minor hockey but then makes hindsight judgements.

Cody Glass has clear NHL skills. He just plays like a sheep.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Celebrini was way more hyped than Bedard for his two way game.

To be honest, this just reads like half this board who pays no attention to prospects or minor hockey but then makes hindsight judgements.

Cody Glass has clear NHL skills. He just plays like a sheep.

Why would I want to watch a bunch of 16 year olds not play the game well, when I can watch a bunch of millionaire 28-30 year olds do it 82 games a year?

Yeah, I'll confess, I rarely paid attention to drafts for years because why would I? We were in playoff contention and we didn't have any picks worth picking. So what, pixies? I'm not pretending I have some scientific way of evaluating players or even that I care about us drafting "Penguins" players. I just want more entertaing hockey so I can justify watching this shit at 1:30 a.m. on a work night. I don't give a shit if it's hindsight 20/20 or whatever, I just want to enjoy watching the big club again.

As to the bolded, this contradicts my point how? I'm not getting it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why would I want to watch a bunch of 16 year olds not play the game well, when I can watch a bunch of millionaire 28-30 year olds do it 82 games a year?

Yeah, I'll confess, I rarely paid attention to drafts for years because why would I? We were in playoff contention and we didn't have any picks worth picking. So what, pixies? I'm not pretending I have some scientific way of evaluating players or even that I care about us drafting "Penguins" players. I just want more entertaing hockey so I can justify watching this shit at 1:30 a.m. on a work night. I don't give a shit if it's hindsight 20/20 or whatever, I just want to enjoy watching the big club again.

As to the bolded, this contradicts my point how? I'm not getting it.

Well I’d argue that’s exactly the type of “risk” a lot of people want us to take.

It’s similar to the complaint about Yager versus McG. Like yeah Yager hits he’s the better player, but McG plays a more complete game, relies on his teammates and fights for the net. I’d take that over the guy with a great shot who relies on his teams.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Well I’d argue that’s exactly the type of “risk” a lot of people want us to take.

It’s similar to the complaint about Yager versus McG. Like yeah Yager hits he’s the better player, but McG plays a more complete game, relies on his teammates and fights for the net. I’d take that over the guy with a great shot who relies on his teams.

It all depends on the context of the team though. We are not going to need that kind of complete guy for a long, long time. If we're serious about a rebuild, we shouldn't really be aiming for those kinds of players, even though that is what scouts and GMs prefer because they're scared of being wrong.

Like sure, McG might come in and become a slower top 9 guy, which we have loads of. But he's not really great at anything, he's decent at a lot of things, is a good teammate, and has intangibles or whatever, at least from what I've seen through WB/S highlights (again, I make no claims of expertise unlike some). But it's like getting excited about Pascal Dupuis-- I know it's an accomplishment, we can only dream a pick gets to play in the NHL as much as that lunatic did, whatever.

But, I'll be honest, I don't give a shit. I can't get excited about a 40 point guy who plays the game the right way to mediocre results anymore. I'm happy for them, they're living their dream, whatever. It's boring for me to watch, and as a consumer, it's a subpar product. I give a shit if the team is exciting to watch. That is it. I do not want to watch the second coming of the trap-era Devils, I do not want to watch the Detroit Red Wings circa 2008-2009. I think people who do have terrible taste and should be ashamed of themselves for being basic ass bitches.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Again, to make it absolutely clear, I have no problem with the Yager trade, but both of them are exactly the kind of player I am talking about-- neither one of them is exciting to watch and as a fan with limited time and money and attention, I do not want to watch a team catering to that kind of hockey.

I know I'm being polemical here, but at the same time, I'm not going to pretend like half of this board does that I'm just interested in the platonic ideal of hockey, that I'm a "student of the game" or that I only root for the coach/crest/xGA or whatever. I want to watch exciting hockey and I will not willing watch boring hockey players for long. I like hits. I like goals. I do not care about PKing.

So, f*** it, if we're all wishcasting about who we want to draft, I don't give a shit as long as the kid is exciting and Mike Sullivan hates him so much he has a stroke and retires.