Prospect Info: 2025 Draft discussion

[eXile3]

Exactly. I think Tij Iginla was in the mid to late 20s this time last year and went 7th (?). Dec 2015, Laine was ranked 10th and went 2nd. There's always a lot of time for guys to move up and down.

Fondell will be interesting to watch. That knee injury isn't what I would consider minor but he will obviously rehab and be back but it's still a blemish on the record. Cayden Lindstrom just had back surgery. Makes me wonder if the CBJ would have still taken him had they known. His surgery involves clipping away a piece of a herniated disc. That's a tough injury to have so young as it's something that will need to be managed for the rest of his career. Does that stop the CBJ from taking him and going to someone like Iginla or Demidov?

Fondell is going to get better the better the knee gets. I would love to have him in this org.

 

[chethejet]

Dubas signed Graves at the time no one thought that was a bad contract. Jarry is still a question here but so far not good. But 5 years is a little over 5AAV for a goalie is not a significant over pay. The issue is after this year can they be moved without giving up assets or picks or retention? Jarry with 3 years in a cap at mid 90 million is not expensive. Graves is playing better but not good enough to show he can help a contender. Other than that, Karlsson will be moved and probably Rust as his contract no longer has movement clauses after this year. Dubas needs to get picks that can be used to move up for higher ranked players.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I thought we invested a lot of resources in scouting and brought over Dubas’ guys from Toronto?

We have one European scout and a bunch of new pro and NA scouts, IIRC.

Dubas signed Graves at the time no one thought that was a bad contract. Jarry is still a question here but so far not good. But 5 years is a little over 5AAV for a goalie is not a significant over pay. The issue is after this year can they be moved without giving up assets or picks or retention? Jarry with 3 years in a cap at mid 90 million is not expensive. Graves is playing better but not good enough to show he can help a contender. Other than that, Karlsson will be moved and probably Rust as his contract no longer has movement clauses after this year. Dubas needs to get picks that can be used to move up for higher ranked players.

I thought it was a bad contract, lol. Hell several people did.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yeah, but it's easier to retain an impact player than acquire one later. Again, I don't think this team's ownership or management have what it takes to build a championship roster, but I'd be shocked if we weren't at least hovering around the playoffs 6-7 years out. If we're not, then we're clearly not taking the right kinds of players and building the right supporting cast.

I have faith in Dubas' ability to draft and trade, but he's really bad at free agent signings for guys that cost more than a couple mill.
Since a lot of this rebuild will primarily entail the first two, I think there's a decent chance it can go well.
There's a chance he'll learn from his mistakes too.

 

[Freeptop]

We have one European scout and a bunch of new pro and NA scouts, IIRC.

Petri Pakaslahti and Tommy Westlund are officially listed as "European Scouts", but they also have Evgeny Bogdanovich and Brian Ihnacak listed as an Amateur Scouts, and when they hired them, they were said to both be based in Europe. Then they also have Leonid Vaysfeld listed as a "Pro Scout" and they also listed him as being based in Europe.

In the past, when the Pens had "European Scouts", they scouted both junior leagues and pro leagues, so I'm guessing that's still the case, while the "Amateur Scouts" are probably exclusively looking at the junior leagues, while the "Pro Scout" only scouts the pro leagues.

In any case, that's a total of five scouts in Europe, so it is definitely better than it used to be.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Petri Pakaslahti and Tommy Westlund are officially listed as "European Scouts", but they also have Evgeny Bogdanovich and Brian Ihnacak listed as an Amateur Scouts, and when they hired them, they were said to both be based in Europe. Then they also have Leonid Vaysfeld listed as a "Pro Scout" and they also listed him as being based in Europe.

In the past, when the Pens had "European Scouts", they scouted both junior leagues and pro leagues, so I'm guessing that's still the case, while the "Amateur Scouts" are probably exclusively looking at the junior leagues, while the "Pro Scout" only scouts the pro leagues.

In any case, that's a total of five scouts in Europe, so it is definitely better than it used to be.

I stand corrected and that is good to know.

 

[MeinerEiner]

As long as the Pens have enough scouts in the Boston area everything should be fine

 

[eXile3]

Dubas signed Graves at the time no one thought that was a bad contract. Jarry is still a question here but so far not good. But 5 years is a little over 5AAV for a goalie is not a significant over pay. The issue is after this year can they be moved without giving up assets or picks or retention? Jarry with 3 years in a cap at mid 90 million is not expensive. Graves is playing better but not good enough to show he can help a contender. Other than that, Karlsson will be moved and probably Rust as his contract no longer has movement clauses after this year. Dubas needs to get picks that can be used to move up for higher ranked players.

Uhhh I called it out as bad along with a few others. He was coming off the horrible playoff showing.

 

[chethejet]

He was a sought after LD as he wasn't in decline or his age was a factor. Just didn't work. He came into this year is very good shape and my guess is he was not a fit for sullivans crap system. But correct, he is unmovable with that term. He was good on the Devils and the AV's.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Dubas signed Graves at the time no one thought that was a bad contract. Jarry is still a question here but so far not good. But 5 years is a little over 5AAV for a goalie is not a significant over pay. The issue is after this year can they be moved without giving up assets or picks or retention? Jarry with 3 years in a cap at mid 90 million is not expensive. Graves is playing better but not good enough to show he can help a contender. Other than that, Karlsson will be moved and probably Rust as his contract no longer has movement clauses after this year. Dubas needs to get picks that can be used to move up for higher ranked players.

Graves is not even playing. The immortal Ryan Shea has surpassed him on our depth chart. Good luck with that one, Dubes.

Jarry has no value. Most goaltenders are diminishing in value these days. Nobody wants to make that type of commitment in a league that is going away from the 60-game goalie. The best we can do is acquire somebody else's bad contract.

So you want to trade Karlsson, and see him put up 85 points somewhere else, and we are stuck with Sullivan's smug face and a retained salary? No thanks. As for Rust, maybe after July 1 the team will entertain it. But again, he kills penalties and is a Sullivan fave. Dubas might not be allowed to deal him.

This whole long-term plan that people are starting to consider has to be placed on hold as long as this awful head coach remains behind the bench.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't really think it matters re: Jarry and Graves anymore. At worst, they're just eating roster spots/cap room for this team to take advantage of being the "trade us your trash for picks/prospects" angle while they wait to rebuild.

But they're not like, pay to remove players imo. Who gives a shit anymore?

I think as far as value goes, in no particular order; Rust (once his NTC drops), Rakell, Petts, Puljujarvi, EK, Letang (if he's willing to waive, but asking him might make Sid frown and we can't have that). Those are the guys you might still be able to actually get something back for. Guys like DOC, Bunting, etc. are probably worthless. Guys like Jarry and Graves are not worth paying to remove.

I think your TDL moves are Petts, DOC, Puljujarvi and maybe Rakell if he's willing to waive (though he only has an 8 team NT list). Might not bring back a 1st, but probably a couple 2nds and some prospects in the Broz/Koivunen tier.

Your off-season moves are Rust once his NTC drops, EK, and explore a Letang deal. Gonna have to, without question, retain 50% on EK for any move, let alone value to come back. Might be smart to retain on Rust a bit too just to open up the market for him--a Rust on your 3rd line at like $3.5M AAV is probably a player a lot of teams are in on.

But for the love of god, fire Sullivan on April 18th. Don't even let him have influence on the draft or off-season moves, man.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[Andy99]

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We’ll find a way to blow it unless we get a top two pick…that’s our history lol

 

[Malkinstheman]

Getting a top-4 pick in this draft would be awesome. Hagens, Misa, Martone and Schaefer all seem like potential building blocks. The drop off in production after these 4 is very stark though. Seems to be quite a large divide but its still very early in the season.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think Hagens is still clear 1 but 2-5 all seem like solid players so far. Kinda like 2024 where 2OA vs 4OA isn’t a massive difference (as opposed to 2023). Things will change though.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Was an assist filled weekend for the top prospects this weekend!!!

Martone had 1G and 4A in 2 games
Misa had 4A in 2 games
Hagens 2A as well in 2 games
Schaefer had a 2 goal game but blanked in the other.

McQueen still out

Still Martone for me as our go to guy if available

 

[SEALBound]

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God damn, if San Jose gets Hagen on top of Celi and Smith, that will be a nice roster in 5 years. NJD of the west.

Chicago opts for the forward IMHO. Likely Martone. That leaves us with Misa, Schaefer, or McQueen. I think we take Misa.

I'd love to get a late 1st and a 2nd in this draft after selling off some guys.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Getting a top-4 pick in this draft would be awesome. Hagens, Misa, Martone and Schaefer all seem like potential building blocks. The drop off in production after these 4 is very stark though. Seems to be quite a large divide but its still very early in the season.

Yeah, I’m a bit worried that we’re going to be picking firmly in that mediocre-but-guaranteed NHLer spot. Drafting Colby Armstrongs and Jett Luchenkos for ever and ever, amen.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, I’m a bit worried that we’re going to be picking firmly in that mediocre-but-guaranteed NHLer spot. Drafting Colby Armstrongs and Jett Luchenkos for ever and ever, amen.

Getting any of Hagens, Misa, Martone or Schaefer will make this year's plight worth it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Getting any of Hagens, Misa, Martone or Schaefer will make this year's plight worth it.

Yeah but what if we don’t?

Dubas pressured to go off the board with 2OA to select a Mike Sullivan player would be very on brand for this club of late.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah but what if we don’t?

Dubas pressured to go off the board with 2OA to select a Mike Sullivan player would be very on brand for this club of late.

It'll suck because this draft is not very good.

Probably a best case scenairo would be another McG.

 

[HandshakeLine]

yeah this is exactly what I am confused about by the “good thing we’re bad” argument too— this is not a generational draft. It’s like getting excited about drafting Kris Beech at 10OA in 1999.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

God damn, if San Jose gets Hagen on top of Celi and Smith, that will be a nice roster in 5 years. NJD of the west.

Chicago opts for the forward IMHO. Likely Martone. That leaves us with Misa, Schaefer, or McQueen. I think we take Misa.

I'd love to get a late 1st and a 2nd in this draft after selling off some guys.

I think SJ goes with Schaefer. I don't care who we get as long as it's in the top 4. We need help everywhere.

 

[eXile3]

yeah this is exactly what I am confused about by the “good thing we’re bad” argument too— this is not a generational draft. It’s like getting excited about drafting Kris Beech at 10OA in 1999.

What is a generational draft? Like a draft that only happens once our life?

There are a handful of top end guys that will would be our best prospect by far and we’re not making the playoffs so why not?

 

[SEALBound]

yeah this is exactly what I am confused about by the “good thing we’re bad” argument too— this is not a generational draft. It’s like getting excited about drafting Kris Beech at 10OA in 1999.

Realistically, you're only getting a generational talent at 1ov and that's once or twice every decade or so. Rare that you have a draft like 04 where you get Ovi and Malkin and 1-2ov.

But that doesn't mean that it's not important to collect higher-end talent. They become important roster pieces later when you DO get that generational talent.

2000 - Orpik
2001 - Armstrong
2002 - Whitney
2003 - MAF
2004 - Malkin

That's a hell of a nice prospect pool to have when you get Sid in 2005 at number. And then you get Staal at 2ov in 2007.

That pretty much set the foundation for the team being a cup contender for 15 years. At the moment, we are looking for the Armstrong, the Whitney, and the Orpik. You need those young talents to support the core franchise player. You want San Jose who can surround Celebrini with Eklund, Smith, and Askarov not Chicago who surround Bedard with...? The rotting corpses of veteran castaways?

We have Blomqvist, McGroarty, Pickering, and Brunicke now. Add Misa to that mix this year. Then next year you get McKenna. Then add Howe, Poulin, Koivunen, Pono, and maybe someone like Ilyin, Pieniniemi, or Broz who make it, you can put together a decent team to take us into the new post-Sid/Geno era.