2025 DRAFT Discussion

[Frk It]

I didn't say that they are vanilla, Ogee said: "They love his size in junior, and they love his position in junior. He's not going to be able to bully 5'10" kids around in the NHL".

What i meant that Aitcheson and Carbonneu are equal bullies in junior leagues, but somehow in their case it doesn't matter that they are also running through 5'10'' kids. Nesbitt is vanilla but they are not.... despite the fact that Aitcheson and Carbonneau are physically nearly fully develop packages and in NHL there is players in their size and shape. How are Aitcheson & Carbonneau continue bullying when they are playing against men their own size and bigger when they are almost done in physical development?

Especially Carbonneau, weak junior league and physically mature kid is iffy combo. And people been questioning Carbonneau's IQ, it's quite worrisome when that get exposed in weak junior league. Makes me think what happens higher levels when there is not always a 5'10'' kid to run through.

Nesbitt is still growing in his body, more mass and more strength. Nesbitt is still in junior league shape and he's this strong already, add 25-30 pounds and he'll be one of the strongest guys in NHL. Skating will improve, what i've seen the first steps are slow, more muscle in his legs and he gets faster. When he bulks up more, just try moving him off the crease. Or try take puck away while he protects it, shoulders wide as barn doors. And yeah he's gonna hurt people with his hits, opposition team is not having fun when there is 205-210 lbs coming at you.

Carbonneau likes to agitate and be a pest, but I am drafting him for his hands/shot. Not to be an enforcer or grinder. He has a top 3 shot in this draft and probably also top 5 hands (IMO). I think part of why he has been selfish is he is just better than his linemates and doesn’t want to defer. That should go away as he goes up in competition. Really hoping he goes NCAA next year for that reason.

Aitcheson has the attitude to both deliver hits and then answer the bell afterwards. Not everyone is wired that way but he most definitely is. Says he wants to win above all else.

Just because Nesbitt might end up bigger than Aitcheson doesn’t mean he will be a more willing or better hitter. I think there are some interesting things about the player, I just think 13 would be a reach, and we should have better options. There are other big guys like him who should be there in round 2.

 

[Run the Jewels]

So if you like Reschny, and our NA scouts (who "suck") like Reschny.......

Truly weird response. Not sure there's much more to be said.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Just because Nesbitt might end up bigger than Aitcheson doesn’t mean he will be a more willing or better hitter. I think there are some interesting things about the player, I just think 13 would be a reach, and we should have better options. There are other big guys like him who should be there in round 2.

Also if Nesbitt is going to get bigger/heavier, what will the impact be on his skating which is already viewed as a massive problem?

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

I love this part of his game and from a pure playing style standpoint there is a lot to like about and root for. I can see him as a fan favorite.

The one thing looking at all of these Dman save the one going first overall is they have almost zero path to PP time with Detroit. Now he is good at jumping into the play but would that really be our system with Seider and ASP on the right side?

I think we need some of what he provides but I am not sure as much offense is projecting up. When you take PP opportunities away from dman production drops off a lot.

My opinion,

He can be a very active D-man on the back end. Hit, activate.

He could also be moved to a forward.

Either way, how ever he develops, he's an NHL player.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

My opinion,

He can be a very active D-man on the back end. Hit, activate.

He could also be moved to a forward.

Either way, how ever he develops, he's an NHL player.

His hitting reminds me of Kronwall at times in terms of how purely he gets guys. I see him as a Dman but I get the winger if it doesn't work out great. Can he round into a PK guy and the defensive guy in the group if he stays at D. I don't see the offense really coming up a level in the massive way, but it should help provide some offense 5 on 5. Like I think he will be good, but if the plan is for Mo and Ed to anchor separate pairings, ASP running PP1, what is the fit here? I get BPA... Is the best d-man available Mrtka or Smith based on how you see the development going and having more defensive certainty?

Now you can say with Aitcheson does he drag a different level out of guys. Does his physicality make Seider and Edvinsson even more aggresive physically. Anton Johansson and Wallinder aren't exactly small dudes either. ASP also actually gets guys pretty well with his timing, especially for a guy his size. You start to have the kind of mean playoff group you're probably looking for. Obviously I like AlJo's skating and IQ, realistically we are going to have to figure out that third pair through attrition or maybe a UFA/trade sliding down as the young kids get better. But if we sink the #13 pick into a D-man, I want that guy in the top 4. Given the big 3 we think of and I understand people wanting to see more of ASP but he is damn impressive to me, fit matters a little here. I can see arguments for a bunch of the dman.

I am still after a Bear or Eklund type up front disturber, forechecker, with speed and skill. Given Aitcheson's late Birthday I would want him to either go to NCAA or turn him pro after next season in Barrie to GR in his turning 20 fall if he is the selection.

 

[Mo Kasmond]

Desnoyer at 15 and Martin at 22 on this list from The Hockey News released today
2025 NHL Draft Rankings: Ferrari's Final Top 80

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I would really like to see this pick dealt for a legitimate on-ice upgrade.

 

[Henkka]

My current Top64 rankings. Not gonna change anymore, more work to push over 100 prospects...

Think there's a talent drop after Misa/Hagens, then after McQueen, then after Lakovic.

Think Boumedienne is my sleeper pick. Why not 13th overall...

Pick	AVG	Range	Pos	2025 draft	Size/Hand	Nation
1	1,5	1-4	LD	Matthew Schaefer	6'2 - L	CAN
2	2,0	1-4	C/LW	Michael Misa	6'1 - L	CAN
3	3,3	1-4	C	James Hagens	5'11 - L	USA
4	4,1	2-6	RW	Porter Martone	6'3 - R	CAN
5	5,7	3-8	C	Anton Frondell	6'1 - L	SWE
6	7,0	4-8	C	Caleb Desnoyers	6'1 - L	CAN
7	8,3	4-10	LW	Viktor Eklund	5'11 - R	SWE
8	9,2	5-13	F	Roger McQueen	6'5 - R	CAN
9	10,3	7-11	C	Jake O'Brien	6'2 - R	TOR
10	11,0	6-14	LD	Jackson Smith	6'3 - L	CAN
11	12,6	8-15	RD	Radim Mrtka	6'6 - R	CZE
12	12,6	6-17	C	Brady Martin	6'0 - R	CAN
13	14,6	7-21	LW/C	Carter Bear	6'0 - L	CAN
14	14,8	7-23	LW	Lynden Lakovic	6'4 - L	CAN
15	17,5	11-19	RW	Justin Carbonneau	6'1 - R	CAN
16	19,0	10-31	LD	Kashawn Aitcheson	6'1 - L	CAN
17	19,6	11-22	C	Braeden Cootes	6'0 - R	CAN
18	19,9	11-26	RD	Logan Hensler	6'2 - R	USA
19	20,1	9-30	C/LW	Cullen Potter	5'10 - L	USA
20	20,3	15-25	LW	Malcolm Spence	6'2 - L	CAN
21	20,7	9-31	LW	Cole Reschny	5'10 - L	CAN
22	21,3	18-25	RW/C	Ben Kindel	5'10 - R	CAN
23	23,2	13-34	LD	Cameron Reid	6'0 - L	CAN
24	24,5	20-32	RD	Blake Fiddler	6'4 - R	USA/CAN
25	25,3	18-37	LD	Sascha Boumedienne	6'2 - L	SWE
26	25,5	20-30	G	Joshua Ravensbergen	6'5 - R	CAN
27	27,0	15-32	W	Bill Zonnon	6'2 - L	CAN
28	28,0	14-42	RW	Cameron Schmidt	5'7 - R	CAN
29	30,0	19-52	C	Ivan Ryabkin	6'0 - L	RUS
30	30,8	26-36	C/LW	Jack Murtagh	6'1 - L	USA
31	31,7	23-50	C	Jack Nesbitt	6'4 - L	CAN
32	32,0	25-44	RW	Shane Vansaghi	6'2 - R	USA
33	33,0	21-45	C	Milton Gästrin	6'1 - L	SWE
34	33,1	29-39	RW	Ryker Lee	6'0 - R	USA
35	33,8	20-51	C	Cole McKinney	6'0 - R	USA
36	36,0	29-55	C	William Moore	6'2 - L	USA
37	36,0	24-60	RW	Vaclav Nestrasil	6'6 - R	CZE
38	36,1	24-53	F	Jakob Ihs-Wozniak	6'3 - R	SWE/AUS
39	36,3	31-46	RD	Henry Brzustewicz	6'1 - R	USA
40	36,5	18-60	C	Eric Nilson	6'0 - R	SWE
41	37,0	27-48	RW	Alexander Zharovsky	6'1 - L	RUS
42	37,5	25-51	LD	Kurban Limatov	6'4 - L	RUS
43	39,9	27-58	C	William Horcoff	6'4 - L	USA
44	40,0	12-69	G	Jack Ivankovic	6'0 - L	CAN
45	45,5	28-56	F	Mason West	6'6 - R	USA
46	45,5	32-73	C	Adam Benak	5'7 - L	CZE
47	45,5	32-66	RD	Charlie Trethewey	6'2 - R	USA
48	46,3	32-65	LD	Jacob Rombach	6'6 - L	USA
49	47,8	36-66	RW	Daniil Prokhorov	6'6 - L	RUS
50	51,8	34-81	LW	Eddie Genborg	6'2 - L	SWE
51	52,5	29-86	RD	Carter Amico	6'6 - R	USA
52	52,5	40-80	C	Luca Romano	5'11 - R	CAN
53	54,1	31-83	RD	Max Psenicka	6'5 - R	CZE
54	54,2	42-84	C/LW	Conrad Fondrk	6'0 - L	USA
55	56,4	33-92	RW	L.J. Mooney	5'7 - R	USA
56	56,9	36-91	W	Nathan Behm	6'2 - R	CAN
57	57,2	39-83	LW	Kristian Epperson	6'0 - L	USA
58	57,3	37-80	W	Filip Ekberg	5'10 - L	SWE
59	57,9	42-77	LD	Haoxi Simon Wang	6'6 - L	CHI/CAN
60	58,5	31-88	C	Theo Stockselius	6'3 - L	SWE
61	58,8	19-112	C/LW	Michal Svrcek	5'10 - L	SVK
62	59,0	30-106	C	Gustav Hillström	6'2 - R	SWE
63	60,8	41-81	RD	Sean Barnhill	6'5 - R	USA
64	61,5	38-94	G	Michal Pradel	6'5 - L	SVK

 

[datsyukfan]

carbonneau is a tough sell for me simply because he plays in the Q. Just can’t trust that league

 

[Run the Jewels]

If Eklund is off the board I kinda hope Detroit trades the 13OA pick. Taking Danielson in '23 and then selecting Nesbitt in '25 would be just the sort of thing I'd expect from our NA scouts. Using a top 10 and a top 15 pick on 3rd and 4th line forwards is going to set the rebuild back.

 

[SantosHalper]

Carbonneau likes to agitate and be a pest, but I am drafting him for his hands/shot. Not to be an enforcer or grinder. He has a top 3 shot in this draft and probably also top 5 hands (IMO). I think part of why he has been selfish is he is just better than his linemates and doesn’t want to defer. That should go away as he goes up in competition. Really hoping he goes NCAA next year for that reason.

Aitcheson has the attitude to both deliver hits and then answer the bell afterwards. Not everyone is wired that way but he most definitely is. Says he wants to win above all else.

Just because Nesbitt might end up bigger than Aitcheson doesn’t mean he will be a more willing or better hitter. I think there are some interesting things about the player, I just think 13 would be a reach, and we should have better options. There are other big guys like him who should be there in round 2.

Carbonneau doesn't shy away from physical stuff and it's calling card for Aitcheson, calling Nesbitt vanilla for mauling players in junior league is ridiculous when Aitcheson & Carbonneau are doing same while being much more physically develop. And in Carbonneau's case, he plays against weaker competition and that could make him look better than he actually is.

Also if Nesbitt is going to get bigger/heavier, what will the impact be on his skating which is already viewed as a massive problem?

It's not like they going to stop developing his skating when he bulks up. And legs need more power to develop his skating. And it's not "massive problem", more of a typical problem for player his age and size. Not a hard problem to fix either and while Nesbitt ain't gonna be Pavel Bure, Nesbitt's high IQ will always put him in right spot.

Spoiler

 

[Holden Caufield]

carbonneau is a tough sell for me simply because he plays in the Q. Just can’t trust that league

Spoken like a true jaded/burned Red Wings fans;

Recent 1st Round Q guys;
Zadina
Veleno
Svechnikov
Mantha

Recent 2nd Round Q guys;
McIsaac
Jurco
Ouellette
Frk.

 

[Run the Jewels]

@SantosHalper serious question: what do you expect Nebsitt to develop into should Detroit select him? Not pie in the sky, but most likely outcome?

1. Can he stick at center?
2. Will he play on a scoring line?
3. Will he be more effective in the NHL than Nate Danielson who had more skill at the same age?
4. What will be his point total for an average season (30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, etc)?

To me 'prototypical shutdown center' whose 'foot speed is a bit lacking' screams 4th line.

 

[Henkka]

If Eklund is off the board I kinda hope Detroit trades the 13OA pick. Taking Danielson in '23 and then selecting Nesbitt in '25 would be just the sort of thing I'd expect from our NA scouts. Using a top 10 and a top 15 pick on 3rd and 4th line forwards is going to set the rebuild back.

Think our NA scouts won't see a drafting chance, in a year of single 1st rounder.

It will be Håkan pick.

Håkan has picked one guy every year since 2019.

NA 1st selections have happened on our only years with two 1st rounders (Cossa 2021 and Danielson 2023).

1st rounders from Europe by Håkan:
2019 - Seider
2020 - Raymond
2021 - Edvinsson
2022 - Kasper
2023 - ASP
2024 - MBN

1st rounders from NA:
2021 - Cossa
2023 - Danielson

When there's no multiple 1st rounders.... you'll know how it goes.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Think our NA scouts won't see a drafting chance, in a year of single 1st rounder.

It will be Håkan pick.

Håkan has picked one guy every year since 2019.

NA 1st selections have happened on our only years with two 1st rounders (Cossa 2021 and Danielson 2023).

1st rounders from Europe by Håkan:
2019 - Seider
2020 - Raymond
2021 - Edvinsson
2022 - Kasper
2023 - ASP
2024 - MBN

1st rounders from NA:
2021 - Cossa
2023 - Danielson

When there's no multiple 1st rounders.... you how it goes.

Unless eklund is gone? Who's the next European top guy at that point ? If eklund is gone it'll likely be a north american picked

 

[Henkka]

Unless eklund is gone? Who's the next European top guy at that point ? If eklund is gone it'll likely be a north american picked

5. C Frondell
7. LW Eklund
12. RD Mrtka
25. LD Boumedienne
29. F Ryabkin

We have seen ~18th ranked Seider to be picked at 6th... So I wouldn't count out anybody on the 13th overall. Teams have different views.

Hope Håkan has done extra duty checking out those NA boys at 10-25 range too.

EDIT:

Did add Mrtka, on those five names, who also played at Europe + Seattle WHL.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Think size does matter if we want to be successful in the playoffs and I dont expect debrincat to be here longterm and resigned

Dont forget we already have buchelnikov lombardi plante in the pipeline and up soon cant imagine 3-4 wingers 6 feet and under on the top 3 lines

I can see us going with the bigger body at the draft if they view the players talent level there the same. All depends how they view nesbitt and if they think he has upside and can help us win but It wouldn't shock me to see him picked by us

Plante and Buch might be good middle six forwards or bust. Lombardi has the best chance of the three but might only be a top 9 guy.

A player like Eklund, though small, leaps and bounds better at 18 than any of them are. And if he develops as we hope, he’s going to be leaps and bounds better at the pro level.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Desnoyer at 15 and Martin at 22 on this list from The Hockey News released today
2025 NHL Draft Rankings: Ferrari's Final Top 80

Zonnon over Desnoyers is a choice.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

5. C Frondell
7. LW Eklund
25. LD Boumedienne
29. F Ryabkin

We have seen ~18th ranked Seider to be picked at 6th... So I wouldn't count out anybody on the 13th overall. Teams have different views.

Hope Håkan has done extra duty checking out those NA boys at 10-25 range too.

Cant see him picking those 2 guys at 13 the gap is too big I know seider went earlier but I dont see it

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Plante and Buch might be good middle six forwards or bust. Lombardi has the best chance of the three but might only be a top 9 guy.

A player like Eklund, though small, leaps and bounds better at 18 than any of them are. And if he develops as we hope, he’s going to be leaps and bounds better at the pro level.

Well if we pick him deal a lombardi in a big deal if you believe hes just a 3rd liner and buchelnikov has some upside if he hits

We can't have 4 wingers out of top 6 being small. I dont think debrincat is here longterm anyways which will piss ppl off so I'd have zero problem using him in a deal to get assets and replace him with Jason robertson(don't think hes dealt anyways)

But anyways back to eklund all depends who's there at 13 and if we cant trade the pick

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Think our NA scouts won't see a drafting chance, in a year of single 1st rounder.

It will be Håkan pick.

Håkan has picked one guy every year since 2019.

NA 1st selections have happened on our only years with two 1st rounders (Cossa 2021 and Danielson 2023).

1st rounders from Europe by Håkan:
2019 - Seider
2020 - Raymond
2021 - Edvinsson
2022 - Kasper
2023 - ASP
2024 - MBN

1st rounders from NA:
2021 - Cossa
2023 - Danielson

When there's no multiple 1st rounders.... you'll know how it goes.

Why is the presumption that Hakan would always prefer one of the Euros over NA options? Truthfully, sans Eklund, there really aren't many good Euro options in the mid first round.

 

[stillwater]

If Eklund is off the board I kinda hope Detroit trades the 13OA pick. Taking Danielson in '23 and then selecting Nesbitt in '25 would be just the sort of thing I'd expect from our NA scouts. Using a top 10 and a top 15 pick on 3rd and 4th line forwards is going to set the rebuild back.

Danielson began his 1st season in the AHL at 19-years old. People who actually watched the kid play a lot (hint, not you) actually thought he was very good.

Now with each post, you espouse and push your bias theory that he's either a bust or merely a complimentary player just to push forward your own point less point (our NA scouts suck). All this without ND ever even beginning his NHL Journey.

You'll never be any kind of a writer, if you don't have an open mind. There is no evidence at all to suggest that ND is a bust. None.

Red Wings NA scouts obviously have not been good and haven't produced a difference maker in the 1st round under Yzerman. Like, that's your point right? We get it ... that's your recent obsession. They've take ONE GUY in the 1st round from NA that isn't a goalie. I mean, one is a pretty small sample size ... right? Do you agree that one is a small sample size?

No need to remind us of every single day.

As if the Yzerman group had anything at all to do with drafting Rasmussen, Mantha or Riley f***ing Sheehan. So, you add ND to that list as your "proof" that nothing has changed with our NA scouts since Yzerman took over. I mean, that's possibly true ... but ND isn't proof of that at all.

The people you constantly bash here drafted Max Plante, Trey Augustine, Guimond and Finnie (sleepers), Cossa, and Mazur.

Only two 1st round picks under Yzerman from NA, Cossa and Nate Danielson. So, you include ND in with guys Holland drafted to "prove" failure. One skater picked in the first round from NA, Nate Danielson.

That's it.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Think our NA scouts won't see a drafting chance, in a year of single 1st rounder.

It will be Håkan pick.

Håkan has picked one guy every year since 2019.

NA 1st selections have happened on our only years with two 1st rounders (Cossa 2021 and Danielson 2023).

1st rounders from Europe by Håkan:
2019 - Seider
2020 - Raymond
2021 - Edvinsson
2022 - Kasper
2023 - ASP
2024 - MBN

1st rounders from NA:
2021 - Cossa
2023 - Danielson

When there's no multiple 1st rounders.... you how it goes.

I certainly hope so, but Eklund seems to be the only Euro who would be a fit for the 13OA pick. EP has Frondell at 13, but there's no way he drops that much.

Danielson began his 1st season in the AHL at 19-years old. People who actually watched the kid play a lot (hint, not you) actually thought he was very good.

Now with each post, you espouse and push your bias theory that he's either a bust or merely a complimentary player just to push forward your own (our NA scouts suck story). All this without ND ever even beginning his NHL Journey.

You'll never be any kind of a writer, if you don't have an open mind. There is no evidence at all to suggest that ND is a bust. None.

Red Wings NA scouts obviously have not been good and haven't produced a difference maker in the 1st round under Yzerman. Like, that's your point right? We get it ... that's your recent obsession.

No need to remind us of it every single day.

I never called Danielson a bust. My opinion is he’s a 3rd line, Selke caliber center. Sorry if that opinion upsets you. Rest assured, if I’m wrong I’ll be the first person to say so.

We have plenty of coverage for the DRW that lacks any meaningful critical analysis, no reed for me to try to edge my way into that very crowded space.

 

[Henkka]

Why is the presumption that Hakan would always prefer one of the Euros over NA options? Truthfully, sans Eklund, there really aren't many good Euro options in the mid first round.

2019 - Seider
2020 - Raymond
2021 - Edvinsson
2022 - Kasper
2023 - ASP
2024 - MBN

I think because of this. 6/6 are Euros.

Martka played for Seattle, but also was at Europe. I think they've seen enough him on both continents.

 

[stillwater]

I certainly hope so, but Eklund seems to be the only Euro who would be a fit for the 13OA pick. EP has Frondell at 13, but there's no way he drops that much.

I never called Danielson a bust. My opinion is he’s a 3rd line, Selke caliber center. Sorry if that opinion upsets you. Rest assured, if I’m wrong I’ll be the first person to say so.

We have plenty of coverage for the DRW that lacks any meaningful critical analysis, no reed for me to try to edge my way into that very crowded space.

You haven't posted that Danielson is a bust, yet you include him in a list with Rasmussen, Mantha and Sheehan, right?

Third line centers don't ever win the Selke, okay? ... never. What is upsetting is reading the same bullshit theory nudged forward every single day ... multiple times a day. We get it!!!

I could agree with you last point more.