2025 DRAFT Discussion

[Rzombo4 prez]

For the record I like Smith, and would be happy to get him at #13.

I could see Detroit passing on him though for not thinking the game at a high enough level.

I think he will be divisive for scouts for some of the same reasons Broberg was.

Every time I find myself saying we should be passing on Smith, I look around at the other potential options and conclude we should think about taking him. He isn't my favorite, but I am not about to act like the other available options have much less risk.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I'm warming up to the idea of taking Smith. Every single scouting report talks about how high his upside is. It's just a gamble.

More importantly, there are a number of these types outside of the first round. Guys like Barnhill, Kettles, Amico, Vass, Psenicka, Rombach, Bedkowski, Hallquisth, etc. Again, I am not about to act like they are sexy, but they can certainly be useful.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

If Jackson Smith is still there at #13, I can't see Yzerman passing on him. Great skater, like really great, big body. Prototypical NHL defenseman. Left shot. Good offensive instincts. This draft's version of Zach Werenski.

Kashawn Aitcheson - he scores, he hits, he fights and he celebrates! ... a lot! Too much of an entertainer for me. Squawking at opposing benches, inciting opposing crowds. Seems like a guy to me that would have to tame down his antics and stick to hockey. I don't know the kid at all ... just what I see. Nowhere near as good as Smith for me.

Justin Carbonneau - great shot, great offensive instincts overall ... big body, kinda reminds me of Owen Nolan. He could fall to the 2nd round because of his passive defensive play. But, it is the QMJHL and half the time you're up by 4 goals and can float. Does he have another gear?

Brady Martin - the wrecking ball center. Don't know that he has the top offensive skills as guys like Carter Bear maybe, but has the look of a force in all areas on the ice. Wouldn't expect him to be around at #13, but I think there's going to be some early surprises in this draft.

It ultimately come down to skill and compete ... but never underestimate all the background work. The meetings, the dinners ... what kind of kid he is can sometimes trump all the things you see on highlight videos.

Why would you hate Aitcheson for those things when teams like the panthers show just how effective that style of play is with how the NHL playoffs have been ?

 

[RedHawkDown]

Why would you hate Aitcheson for those things when teams like the panthers show just how effective that style of play is with how the NHL playoffs have been ?

The no fun allowed crowd always seems to forget that this is literally a made up children's game that we are paying adults millions of dollars to play for our entertainment. The more emotion the better...

 

[stillwater]

Why would you hate Aitcheson for those things when teams like the panthers show just how effective that style of play is with how the NHL playoffs have been ?

I didn't say I hated him.

The Panthers aren't fighting, taunting the bench or inciting the crowds in visiting rinks.

The Panthers don't just hit you ... they aren't the Broad Street Bullies. They're highly skilled with 3 solid forward lines that can play any way you want to. The NHL's best D core. Arguably the NHL's best goaltender.

If anything, it's been the Oilers looking to set some kind of tone with all the hits and cheap shots, and it's not working ... at all.

The Oilers have 2 of the best 5 players in the NHL ... the Panthers have the better team. It's their depth, not their entertaining antics that get them where they are.

You've already guaranteed that the Wings are taking Aitcheson with the #13 pick anyway ... so, my opinion shouldn't matter.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

I didn't say I hated him.

The Panthers aren't fighting, taunting the bench or inciting the crowds in visiting rinks.

The Panthers don't just hit you ... they aren't the Broad Street Bullies. They're highly skilled with 3 solid forward lines that can play any way you want to. The NHL's best D core. Arguably the NHL's best goaltender.

If anything, it's been the Oilers looking to set some kind of tone with all the hits and cheap shots, and it's not working ... at all.

The Oilers have 2 of the best 5 players in the NHL ... the Panthers have the better team. It's their depth, not their entertaining antics that get them where they are.

You've already guaranteed that the Wings are taking Aitcheson with the #13 pick anyway ... so, what my opinion shouldn't matter.

The panthers are one of the greasiest, dirtiest sets of players we’ve ever seen. Marchand, Matt T, Bennett, ekblad, any of these guys were on other teams they’d be that teams dirtiest/rattiest players. Nobody really fights in the playoffs, that’s a given, but they are doing everything up to that point. The oilers are starting to do those things because they are trying to match the panthers energy.

They are this generation of the broad street bullies, those philly teams were extremely physical but also super talented, same as the panthers.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I didn't say I hated him.

The Panthers aren't fighting, taunting the bench or inciting the crowds in visiting rinks.

The Panthers don't just hit you ... they aren't the Broad Street Bullies. They're highly skilled with 3 solid forward lines that can play any way you want to. The NHL's best D core. Arguably the NHL's best goaltender.

If anything, it's been the Oilers looking to set some kind of tone with all the hits and cheap shots, and it's not working ... at all.

The Oilers have 2 of the best 5 players in the NHL ... the Panthers have the better team. It's their depth, not their entertaining antics that get them where they are.

You've already guaranteed that the Wings are taking Aitcheson with the #13 pick anyway ... so, my opinion shouldn't matter.

This is a pretty unique take tbh. The current iteration of the Panthers is probably the dirtiest team in the last 15 years. They absolutely taunt the bench constantly. They are the closest thing to the broad street bullies in today's NHL. They also definitely do not have the NHL's best D core lol.

The Panthers are great because their top players outside of Barkov - Tkachuk, Verhaeghe, Bennett, Reinhart, Ekblad, even Mikkola - are all extremely physical and play dirty. They can't be intimidated. They come in waves and their forecheck pressure is relentless.

Aitcheson is pretty much exactly the prototype of the style of player the current Panthers are full of.

 

[lilidk]

Of course, I can't now find a single article questioning reservations about Edvinsson's hockey IQ, LOL.

I know I read them.

I remember was planty talking about his decision making problems and now same people saying the same about Mrtka and Smith

 

[lilidk]

This is a pretty unique take tbh. The current iteration of the Panthers is probably the dirtiest team in the last 15 years. They absolutely taunt the bench constantly. They are the closest thing to the broad street bullies in today's NHL. They also definitely do not have the NHL's best D core lol.

The Panthers are great because their top players outside of Barkov - Tkachuk, Verhaeghe, Bennett, Reinhart, Ekblad, even Mikkola - are all extremely physical and play dirty. They can't be intimidated. They come in waves and their forecheck pressure is relentless.

Aitcheson is pretty much exactly the prototype of the style of player the current Panthers are full of.

That is why we should get Bear

 

[better Red than Dead]

Mantha would have been pretty good playing with Kasper and MBN, though. As much as I love the idea, we probably don't need every guy to be a power forward.

Is settle for one as there is none in the organization

 

[stillwater]

The no fun allowed crowd always seems to forget that this is literally a made up children's game that we are paying adults millions of dollars to play for our entertainment. The more emotion the better...

Not concerned with emotion at all. There's a time and place for everything.

You score an overtime winner, dance like nobody's watching. You score on a Sunday afternoon in Sudbury when you're down 5-1 ... you go back to the bench, get on the bus and enjoy your Big Mac on the way home.

I'm concerned with the Sean Avery level bullshit. That, I cannot condone.

 

[stillwater]

This is a pretty unique take tbh. The current iteration of the Panthers is probably the dirtiest team in the last 15 years. They absolutely taunt the bench constantly. They are the closest thing to the broad street bullies in today's NHL. They also definitely do not have the NHL's best D core lol.

The Panthers are great because their top players outside of Barkov - Tkachuk, Verhaeghe, Bennett, Reinhart, Ekblad, even Mikkola - are all extremely physical and play dirty. They can't be intimidated. They come in waves and their forecheck pressure is relentless.

Aitcheson is pretty much exactly the prototype of the style of player the current Panthers are full of.

The bench taunting is pretty much a Matthew Tkachuk thing. It works for him. I wouldn't want my guy doing it (from a teammate's vantage point).

I guess I don't feel like the Panthers are dirty in the sense that others do. I certainly don't feel like that's why they're winning. They're just better up to this point than anyone else. Connor McDavid could change that going forward, but it's really hard to rattle the Panthers. I mean, to lose Game 6 at home VS Toronto and then come back to Toronto and just blow them out. Sort of reminded me of 2002 when the Red Wings lost game 5 at the Joe vs the Avalanche to go down 2-3, going back to Denver ... then shut them out in Denver and then again at the Joe in Game 7 in the Western Conference Finals.

I really envy the Panthers. I think they get everything they can out of every guy. Bobrovsky helps out a lot too. Those big saves early in games, you really need that.

Aitcheson, I'm concerned, because he really likes to fight, will run up against some killer in the AHL and get his clock cleaned. He does pretty well, but it's just the OHL. He isn't feared there like Troy Crowder, Dennis Bonvie or Tie Domi were.

I like Aitcheson as a player, but just don't know at pick #13 ... I'm sorry I mentioned what I see as warts.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Is settle for one as there is none in the organization

Kasper? MBN? Mazur has some of those qualities too.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Now what are Ehler's actual numbers and how many games does he actually play? Over those same 5 years he's averaged 61 games and 22 goals. How much do you want to pay for 20-ish goals? I'm not saying Ehlers and Rossi are the same player, but you're going to getting 20ish goals from either of them and I'm not a fan of spending a premium for that.

And Tank should have been unhappy. I didn't see a lack of effort, though. Kane dogged it under Lalonde. That was 100% lousy effort for 36 games. Tank reminded me of Robitaille when he was here. Crazy snake bit, not a great fit anywhere, a frustrating year.

The 70 games Ehlers or Boeser play in the top 6 are 70 more games we’re not seeing bums like Berggren, Tank, Ras and Compher there.

 

[Winger98]

The 70 games Ehlers or Boeser play in the top 6 are 70 more games we’re not seeing bums like Berggren, Tank, Ras and Compher there.

The 70 games you get from Ehlers once in 5 years.

And I haven't pushed for any of those four to be in the top6 next year. you're arguing something I never said, and I think I've been pretty clear about who I do want to see in that empty top6 spot.

 

[RedHawkDown]

The bench taunting is pretty much a Matthew Tkachuk thing. It works for him. I wouldn't want my guy doing it (from a teammate's vantage point).

I guess I don't feel like the Panthers are dirty in the sense that others do. I certainly don't feel like that's why they're winning. They're just better up to this point than anyone else. Connor McDavid could change that going forward, but it's really hard to rattle the Panthers. I mean, to lose Game 6 at home VS Toronto and then come back to Toronto and just blow them out. Sort of reminded me of 2002 when the Red Wings lost game 5 at the Joe vs the Avalanche to go down 2-3, going back to Denver ... then shut them out in Denver and then again at the Joe in Game 7 in the Western Conference Finals.

I really envy the Panthers. I think they get everything they can out of every guy. Bobrovsky helps out a lot too. Those big saves early in games, you really need that.

Aitcheson, I'm concerned, because he really likes to fight, will run up against some killer in the AHL and get his clock cleaned. He does pretty well, but it's just the OHL. He isn't feared there like Troy Crowder, Dennis Bonvie or Tie Domi were.

I like Aitcheson as a player, but just don't know at pick #13 ... I'm sorry I mentioned what I see as warts.

But why do you think the panthers are better? It’s not just pure skill and point scoring otherwise they would have lost to Toronto. It’s not defense otherwise they would have lost to Carolina.

It’s the relentless, take-no-prisoners physicality from top to bottom.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

But why do you think the panthers are better? It’s not just pure skill and point scoring otherwise they would have lost to Toronto. It’s not defense otherwise they would have lost to Carolina.

It’s the relentless, take-no-prisoners physicality from top to bottom.

I agree, they aren't nearly as skilled as people make them out to be.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

It’s pretty obvious to me in our rebuild the red wings are not going to be able to outskill the top teams to be contenders, sure they are going to need skill but the only way I see this core contending is if they are built like the panthers. If we are built like the hurricanes we won’t get over the hump.

 

[USAHockey97]

It’s pretty obvious to me in our rebuild the red wings are not going to be able to outskill the top teams to be contenders, sure they are going to need skill but the only way I see this core contending is if they are built like the panthers. If we are built like the hurricanes we won’t get over the hump.

Wings don’t have the talent of the Panthers nor their physicality. They won’t be near that level at all.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Wings don’t have the talent of the Panthers nor their physicality. They won’t be near that level at all.

Then they will never contend lol. If we are talking primes then Seider = ekblad, Raymond = marchand, kasper = Bennett. They are missing Matt T and barkov level players though I do agree.

 

[Frk It]

Lol I like how the team to emulate changes every year based on who wins.

If we are going to win I think it is going to be a la 2023 Vegas or the 2019 Blues.

A team led by a big, mobile blue line with good two way forwards.

I don't think we can replicate Florida, because Matthew Tkachuk is 1 of 1 in my eyes. But it probably would be a wise idea to try to incorporate more toughness in the lineup regardless.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

You should be asking yourself why he’s not ranked higher. There’s a reason.

His combo of frame and skating and skills should be a top 5 player for this draft.

When I first looked at his highlights, I was like wtf is wrong with people, this guy should be way higher.

But the IQ concerns are real, and the reason he is outside the top 10 for most people even with his skill set and in a weak class.

And I have a hard time seeing Yzerman take a defenseman with significant IQ concerns. I could very easily see Yzerman passing on him.

Pasternak was picked in the 20s ,caufield 15 and so on. Players always get passed over for whatever reason. At 13 I think Jackson smith is well worth the gamble and has a lot of upsIde. Wouldn’t be upset with him.... obviously always depends who’s there and who we can trade pick 13 for, but ya smith isn’t a bad pick

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Pasternak was picked in the 20s ,caufield 15 and so on. Players always get passed over for whatever reason. At 13 I think Jackson smith is well worth the gamble and has a lot of upsIde. Wouldn’t be upset with him.... obviously always depends who’s there and who we can trade pick 13 for, but ya smith isn’t a bad pick

No way Jackson Smith gets to 13 and we pass on him.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Kasper? MBN? Mazur has some of those qualities too.

Those are power forwards?? If anything I think we have too many small forwards who like to hang around the perimeter.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

No way Jackson Smith gets to 13 and we pass on him.

All depends who’s there but ya I can see us taking him at 13 easily. I’d also be tempted to switch with Seattle who have drafted 0 dmen of late if they think they can get smith at 13 and if McQueen is there at 8 let’s say and if we just want to take a gamble. Could pay off huge if he pans out and we have 6’5 McQueen 1c and Kasper 2 c down the road

Just to change the subject I’m still pissed we never targeted Monaghan like I wanted cause we’d have the 16th pick this draft. Yzerman only getting a 2nd for staal during the rebuild was a major fail