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FriendlyGhost92 said:
Fair, though he's kinda heralded as a two way guy, isn't he?

I thought I saw a comparison to either a Barkov or Kopitar type?
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I don't think he has enough high end qualities to be compared to either of those guys. And if he did, I think he would be ranked #1 or #2 for this class as opposed to where he is.

I think he's closer to Lundell than he is Barkov. Personally he reminds me of Lundell with a better shot.
 
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Frk It said:
I don't think he has enough high end qualities to be compared to either of those guys. And if he did, I think he would be ranked #1 or #2 for this class as opposed to where he is.

I think he's closer to Lundell than he is Barkov. Personally he reminds me of Lundell with a better shot.
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I was referring more to style than caliber.
 
OgeeOgelthorpe said:
The U18s last year are just that; last year. He was terrific in that, no doubt. I was very high on him at the start of the year as a result. Then whenever I had the opportunity to watch him the flaws in his game became very apparent. Hagens is very much a perimeter player. He's a good skater but it's not at the same level as a Hughes brother to accommodate for his small size.

I think he's got a relatively safe floor as a second line scorer but I don't think he's going to be a true NHL superstar scoring threat like many expected after the U18s. There's some dynamism missing from his game that I think prevents that. At least for now. Right now he looks like a less skilled Logan Cooley.
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I think he has a ton of upside, and I am expecting him to take a big step forward next year.

And we were both too low on Cooley, so maybe I am just trying to get it right this time :laugh:
 
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FriendlyGhost92 said:
Fair, though he's kinda heralded as a two way guy, isn't he?

I thought I saw a comparison to either a Barkov or Kopitar type?
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Those were very generous comparisons. I'd say on the high end he's like Sean Monahan as a slow 2nd line center but will need fast puck carrying wingers. On the low end? Slow Kotkaniemi that can shoot.

What I like least about Frondell's game is the total lack of neutral zone game. He is flat out not a puck transporter. As a center that limits you to being a 3rd line guy most of the time. He also doesn't have a whole lot more to grow physically so I wonder about how much runway he's got to improve. That's typically OK for a winger, but for a center where skating isn't a strength and he's already pretty heavy then I pause.

His defensive game isn't bad but it's not a major plus. Where Frondell's game is the best is on the half wall or at the right faceoff dot as trigger man on the powerplay. He has an overpowering one timer. His shot is fairly accurate, and I'd rank it top 5 in the draft. Frondell does a decent job protecting the puck and can make safe plays to his teammates.

Not a bad prospect. I have doubts about his ultimate upside though.
 
Frk It said:
I think he has a ton of upside, and I am expecting him to take a big step forward next year.

And we were both too low on Cooley, so maybe I am just trying to get it right this time :laugh:
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I was lower on Cooley than I should have been, but I also don't put him in the top 20 centers yet. When I watched Utah this season I thought Cooley was good but Clayton Keller was the real driver. Cooley was often the 3rd or 4th best forward for Utah in the times I watched them out west.

If a team drafts a Logan Cooley clone at #3/4 in this draft they should be OK with it. I just have trouble moving him into the top 5. Cooley doesn't seem like the kind of player you win with if he's your top center.
 
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Take this with a boulder of salt. I've seen a handful of these guys quite a few times, but there are just as many takes based a little too heavily on Twitter highlights and opinions I've read or heard from various sources around the internet. Players lumped in tiers are basically on the same level for me. You could push me in any direction on those guys. Also note that this is a personal ranking and not a mock draft.
  1. LD Schaefer, Matthew
  2. LC Misa, Michael
    ---
  3. LC Desnoyers, Caleb
  4. RC Martin, Brady
  5. LW Bear, Carter
  6. RC O'Brien, Jake
  7. LC Frondell, Anton
  8. LW Eklund, Victor
  9. RD Mrtka, Radim
  10. RC McQueen, Roger
    ---
  11. RC Cootes, Braeden
  12. RC Hillstrom, Gustav
  13. LD Smith, Jackson
  14. LC Hagens, James
  15. RW Martone, Porter
  16. RW Lee, Ryker
    ---
  17. LD Limatov, Kurban
  18. LC Potter, Cullen
  19. RD Hensler, Logan
  20. LW Nestrasil, Vaclav
  21. LC Reschny, Cole
  22. LW Svreck, Michal
  23. LW Spence, Malcolm
  24. LD Aitcheson, Kashawn
  25. RW Vansaghi, Shane
    ---
  26. RC Kindel, Benjamin
  27. LW Epperson, Kristian
  28. RD Hallquisth, Theodor
  29. LD Rombach, Jacob
  30. RD Psenicka, Max
  31. LC Cerrato, Charlie
  32. RD Bausov, Roman
    ---
  33. LW Lakovic, Lynden
  34. RC West, Mason
  35. LD Wang, Haoxi Simon
  36. LD Lindgren, Zeb
  37. LW Prokhorov, Daniil
  38. RC Paupanekis, Hayden
  39. LW Gorzynski, Brandon
 
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Steve Yzerlland said:
He is 18. When he matures you might think differently. Also we have been wasting 2nd since forever at least he has high end upside...
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If there's one thing that seems to be a constant after all these years of drafts on this board, it's that if a player has compete issues at a young age they're more than likely going to have compete issues when they age.

It's the one profile that seems to be resistant to improvement above all others.
 
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Frk It said:
Gotcha, that makes sense.

Just as a side note, I hate when players get compared to Kopitar. I'm not sure I have seen another prospect like Kopitar since Kopitar. That blend of skill and physical gifts down the middle is rare.
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Well Kopitar came before Barkov and I find them extremely comparable. Good on Florida for catching the next one and selecting him #2 in a pretty celebrated draft.
 
The Zetterberg Era said:
Well Kopitar came before Barkov and I find them extremely comparable. Good on Florida for catching the next one and selecting him #2 in a pretty celebrated draft.
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Maybe that would be closest. I just feel like if you put a lot of these guys who get compared to Kopitar next to him they would look small. Even with Barkov, I think Kopitar has some weight on him.

But in terms of what they do on the ice, yeah I get what you are saying.
 
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1-Schaefer
2-Misa
3-Martone
4-Hagens
5-Obrien
6-Desnoyers
7-Eklund
8-Frondell
9-Kindel
10-Reschny
11-Martin
12-Bear
13-Carbounneau
14-Lakovic
15-Aitcheson
16-Smith
17-Mcqueen
18-Potter
19-Cootes
20-Mrtka
21-Zharovsky
22-Reid
23-Boumdienne
24-Hensler
25-Spence
26-Shmidt
27-Ekberg
28-Lee
29-Mckinney
30-Nesbitt
31-Zonnon
32-Ryabkin
33-Ravensbergen
34-Murtagh
35-Ihz Wozniak
36-Fiddler
37-Vansagi
38-Thretheway
39-Klingsell
40-Nilson
41-Epperson
42-Limatov
43-Isayev
44-Agafanov
45-Moore
 
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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
If there's one thing that seems to be a constant after all these years of drafts on this board, it's that if a player has compete issues at a young age they're more than likely going to have compete issues when they age.

It's the one profile that seems to be resistant to improvement above all others.
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I hear you but if I was judged by my 18 year old self that's like a 180 person. If he got in the right environment and had the right system and coaches he could be very good. Im not saying take him @13...
 
OgeeOgelthorpe said:
I get that. And I agree that Mrtka will be a player, but I just think he's going to be a very uninspiring #4 that, when you look at the draft 10 years from now you're wondering why he was a top 10 and a guy like Eklund or Cootes or Bear fell out of the top 10.

I can't ever imagine Mrtka being PP1, and I debate if he's even got PP2 upside in the NHL. So he might be a 20-21 minute a night, 20-25 point defender that takes up a lot of space. But you're going to wish he was more than that.

It really is a bad class for defensemen.
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I think you are missing the mark on Cootes (or at least overvaluing him). I get how people could get drunk on his U18 play. We talk about "Helm with hands" a lot. This kid is just plain "Helm." The kid is an ordinary third-line center who can skate and has a great motor. Nothing more. At some point we should also have a discussion about his WHL production.

When listed next to Eklund and Bear, one of these is not like the others.
 
Rzombo4 prez said:
I think you are missing the mark on Cootes (or at least overvaluing him). I get how people could get drunk on his U18 play. We talk about "Helm with hands" a lot. This kid is just plain "Helm." The kid is an ordinary third-line center who can skate and has a great motor. Nothing more. At some point we should also have a discussion about his WHL production.

When listed next to Eklund and Bear, one of these is not like the others.
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Ok so give us your list so we can see where he should be ranked then.
 
Frk It said:
When I make lists like this for fun, I tend to go for the guys who I think have the most upside.

But truth be told, if it was my ass on the line, and I wanted to make sure I was getting a guy who plays in the NHL for a long time, I would probably have Mrtka higher.
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So what do you do when no one really has upside? I think Mrtka is mobile, plays relatively hard in my viewings and can pass the puck. I don't think you are getting any offense from him. In this class, however, that gets you drafted pretty high.
 
Rzombo4 prez said:
I think you are missing the mark on Cootes (or at least overvaluing him). I get how people could get drunk on his U18 play. We talk about "Helm with hands" a lot. This kid is just plain "Helm." The kid is an ordinary third-line center who can skate and has a great motor. Nothing more. At some point we should also have a discussion about his WHL production.

When listed next to Eklund and Bear, one of these is not like the others.
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I agree that Cootes is pretty much a 3rd liner with a great motor and some chipiness. There’s a lot of value in that though. Especially in a weak draft. That kid is a 30-40 point shutdown guy all day.

FWIW I rated Cootes 16. Eklund and Bear were 6 and 8 on my board.
 
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Rzombo4 prez said:
So what do you do when no one really has upside? I think Mrtka is mobile, plays relatively hard in my viewings and can pass the puck. I don't think you are getting any offense from him. In this class, however, that gets you drafted pretty high.
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I have yet to see a draft where that is the case, guess this one will be the first.

Everyone said how god awful 2017 was and we still get Makar, Heiskanen, Petterson, Necas, Suzuki.

I think there will be a point in the draft where Mrtka will be more appealing than the riskier upside options, and I would guess for NHL teams that will be somewhere around 7-10 in this class.

OgeeOgelthorpe said:
If there's one thing that seems to be a constant after all these years of drafts on this board, it's that if a player has compete issues at a young age they're more than likely going to have compete issues when they age.

It's the one profile that seems to be resistant to improvement above all others.
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I think it's more than just that.
 
Frk It said:
Ok so give us your list so we can see where he should be ranked then.
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Something like:

1-Schaefer
2-Misa
3-Desoyners
4-Hagens
5-Martone
6-Frondell
7-Bear
8-Obrien
9-Martin
10- Mrtka
11-Eklund
12-Aitcheson
13-McQueen
14- Carbonneau
15- Lee
16- Smith
17- Hensler
18-Zharovsky
19-Nestrasil
20- Lakovic
21-Nesbitt
22- Potter
23- Reschny
23- Cootes
24- Kindel
25- Brzustewicz
26- Spence
27- Bedkowski
28- Barnhill
29- Boumedienne
30- Gastrin
31- Vansaghi
32- Reid
 
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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Conditioning issues.
Attitude issues.
Compete issues.

Thanks but no thanks.
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At #44 he will have the distinction of most talented.

Not sure why you draft majority boy scouts if it isn't to bring some of these guys along into better players. I don't see them drafting him, but in the second round if you have the right people to iron him out he should be considered because the talent is high in this case.
 
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