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2025 26 Roster…too Soon

and yet, even before donato's individually anomalous 24-25 season, he was on average a more efficient scorer than either at 5v5. considering that the relative all strengths gulf between him and turbo last season was only ~-0.5p/60 while the 5v5 was ~+0.3, that tells me that the difference between the two wasn't really that great, and that your evaluations are oriented towards aesthetics rather than outcome or results.

his season was a statistical anomaly. i fully well expect him to score less than 2.85p/60 next season. rather, if he resigned i would expect him to score somewhere between 1.9 and 2.5, about like i expect from bert and turbo. my point is that even taking away the career year, donato is comparable to bert and turbo in terms of points production efficiency. again: if donato is clearly worse than either of these two players, it has to be for some reason other than point production, and no one has offered me any other satisfying reason so far.

the point i was making is that neither of bert or turbo are known to be exceptional defensive forwards, and that donato is not known to be an exceptionally bad defensive forward. they are all pretty middling. i'd say turbo is probably considered the best, followed by donato and bert. the exact breakdown is neither here nor there, because what's important is i don't think there's anything to indicate that either bert or turbo's defensive contributions are so overaweing as to place them clearly head-and-shoulder above donato when considering their respective all around games.

to me, donato is a hard working middle-six forward who you can be confident will give you somewhere between 15-25 goals 40-60 points in 14 minutes a night. well worth the ~6.25% of the cap bert got, which would place him around a $5.96 mil cap hit this offseason. i do that for 3-5 years no problem. certainly far easier for me to offer him that than offer anyone else on the market $8+mil for 6+ years.

The problem with your analysis is that it doesn't take into account QoC. Teravainen and Bertuzzi have often played top-6 minutes for their teams throughout their careers. Donato has almost exclusively played botom-6 minutes. Teravainen and Bertuzzi would have faced significantly better players in those roles throughout their careers than Donato has in his.

I can see an argument where some might prefer Donato to Bertuzzi but Bertuzzi has a much better track record of scoring. Teravainen I don't think is comparable to either. He's clearly more talented. A legitimate PP weapon and he's not a slouch defensively.
 
The problem with your analysis is that it doesn't take into account QoC. Teravainen and Bertuzzi have often played top-6 minutes for their teams throughout their careers. Donato has almost exclusively played botom-6 minutes. Teravainen and Bertuzzi would have faced significantly better players in those roles throughout their careers than Donato has in his.
it's fair to point out that lack of QoC analysis limits how confidently i can assert my conclusions, but i think drawing any contraveneing conclusions from there without presenting an actual QoC analysis is speculative. i also think you are downplaying the comparative value of having each of these three players on the same team playing similar roles this last season. in the absence of any dispositivley confounding evidence from the larger sample size of their whole respective careers, i find this season's results compelling enough to say that they aren't really as far apart as most people here make it seem.
I can see an argument where some might prefer Donato to Bertuzzi but Bertuzzi has a much better track record of scoring. Teravainen I don't think is comparable to either. He's clearly more talented. A legitimate PP weapon and he's not a slouch defensively.
this is also fair. like i just got done alluding to above, the point here isn't to make a definitive judgement that donato is better than either bert or turbo. the comparison to bert is far stronger, but either way. all i mean to do is to explain why it confuses me that the one is so broadly considered to be distinctly worse than the other two, so as to be in a whole different class of role-player.

if we are worried about donato being a middle-sixer, the question isn't whether he maintains what he did this past season (if he did it would be more appropriate to talk about him as a fringe top-sixer), but rather whether he underperforms the rates he was already maintaining before being given a larger role.
 
If Turbo and Bert didn't make this team any better this past season (if they did, it was very marginal) than losing Donato won't make this team worse. That's what I take from those stats.

Going back to my point that there is basically no way next years team is worse than last years.
 
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Nazar came on really strong the last few weeks of the season and followed it up by putting up the most points on the winning team in the WC. Having him on next season's roster will be hugely beneficial to next year's roster.

Having one or both of Rinzel/Levshunov will be a big addition too. Both averaged well over 20 minutes a night. That's a big add for next year.

Knight wasn't perfect, but he was better than Mrazek was this season and keeps inching closer to his prime.

And Bedard faced a sophomore slump.

With or without Donato, the expectation should be that we're a better team next season. Worlds better? No. But better all the same.
 
would absolutely not give Donato a meaningful long term extension...could easily see him playing bottom 6 minutes by next year, you're looking at Moore being FT this year, maybe Lardis gets a look, maybe they add someone in off-season, Boisvert turns pro by end of season, a top 3 pick this year, likely top 5-10 next year, TT and Bert already signed to multi year deals, just let Donato walk imo
 
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and yet, even before donato's individually anomalous 24-25 season, he was on average a more efficient scorer than either at 5v5. considering that the relative all strengths gulf between him and turbo last season was only ~-0.5p/60 while the 5v5 was ~+0.3, that tells me that the difference between the two wasn't really that great, and that your evaluations are oriented towards aesthetics rather than outcome or results.

his season was a statistical anomaly. i fully well expect him to score less than 2.85p/60 next season. rather, if he resigned i would expect him to score somewhere between 1.9 and 2.5, about like i expect from bert and turbo. my point is that even taking away the career year, donato is comparable to bert and turbo in terms of points production efficiency. again: if donato is clearly worse than either of these two players, it has to be for some reason other than point production, and no one has offered me any other satisfying reason so far.

to me, donato is a hard working middle-six forward who you can be confident will give you somewhere between 15-25 goals 40-60 points in 14 minutes a night. well worth the ~6.25% of the cap bert got, which would place him around a $5.96 mil cap hit this offseason. i do that for 3-5 years no problem. certainly far easier for me to offer him that than offer anyone else on the market $8+mil for 6+ years.
How are you confident Donato will be something he's never done until last season? Donato generally got a little less than 14 mins on teams, not because hes he been limited by coaches or high talent around him, because he didn't preform to it.

The season you expect of Donato to repeat, hes done once.

The seasons people expect of Bertuzzi/Teuvo, are seasons they've done 5 times each.... and not even their career highs! Bertuzzi isn't expected to be at his career high, his 21-22 season isn't expected. But a 20-20 net front player is... hes done that 5 times. Teuvo isn't expected to be the near ppg 78 pt guy his career high was, but a 60 pt guy he's been 5 times (off by 2 pts from this past year where he started slow) they got more icetime because they earned it. Per 60 is never some garntuee, you're good to produce more if you get the icetime.

Donato has always been an inconsistent bottom 6 guy without any high end traits to lean on as useful still when his scoring is dry.

It should be clear why confidence is there for those who have done it vs expecting a career year to be the new norm of a veteran player.
 
imagine this group for the next decade

Bedard
McKenna
Nazar
Rinzel
Levshunov
Desnoyers/Frondell/Hagens/Martone
Vlasic
Korchinski
Knight
Commesso
Boisvert
Moore
Vanacker
Lardis
etc etc

if you run with the younger players all year and it ends up being a tank year then its short term pain for long term gain
 
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Nazar came on really strong the last few weeks of the season and followed it up by putting up the most points on the winning team in the WC. Having him on next season's roster will be hugely beneficial to next year's roster.

Having one or both of Rinzel/Levshunov will be a big addition too. Both averaged well over 20 minutes a night. That's a big add for next year.

Knight wasn't perfect, but he was better than Mrazek was this season and keeps inching closer to his prime.

And Bedard faced a sophomore slump.

With or without Donato, the expectation should be that we're a better team next season. Worlds better? No. But better all the same.
And also the fact that you're not starting the season with Richardson

The expectation is on Blashill to get them playing well every night, regardless of if they win or not
 
imagine this group for the next decade

Bedard
McKenna
Tracy-McGrady-Vince-Carter-Raptors.jpg
 
How are you confident Donato will be something he's never done until last season?
because it's in line with the rates he was scoring at in those previous seasons while allowing for more playing time. i take his increased production in a higher role this season as indication that playing more than bottom-six minutes he is likely to hold his own and maintain as a ~2p/60 player, give or take about 0.4p/60.
Donato generally got a little less than 14 mins on teams, not because hes he been limited by coaches or high talent around him, because he didn't preform to it.
repeating myself, and yet he was comparably efficient to both of bertuzzi and turbo, more so at 5v5 and less so all strengths. if you want to present a QoC argument to deflate that, the floor is very much open to you.
The season you expect of Donato to repeat, hes done once.
a repeat of 24-25 for him is the most i think one could reasonably expect without being overly optimistic. that's why i put the upper end of the projection at 60 points. i don't see why i am supposed to put that outside of all possibility considering he just did it. conversely, i don't see why i'm supposed to just assume his scoring drastically regresses to be even lower than what he was doing the year previous with an even worse hawks team.

for direct comparison's sake, 23-24 donato scored 1.65p/60 (the worst single season scoring rate of his career btw), 24-25 donato scored 2.85p/60. if donato played the minutes he did in 24-25 with the scoring rate he had in 23-24, he'd be good for about 35 points. so adjust my projection down a bit to 35-55 points if you like. i don't think it changes things very much.
The seasons people expect of Bertuzzi/Teuvo, are seasons they've done 5 times each
and i expect next year for donato to have a season that is somewhat better than his first in chicago (his career worst) and somewhat worse than his second (his career best). this shouldn't be very hard to believe i don't think.
Per 60 is never some garntuee, you're good to produce more if you get the icetime.
of course it isn't a guarantee. the facts at hand are he has maintained middle-six rates over nearly a decade, and this last season when he was given more minutes, he outperformed those rates. i think that indicates that he is at the very least more than a fourth liner, which is what i set out to debunk from the outset.
It should be clear why confidence is there for those who have done it vs expecting a career year to be the new norm of a veteran player.
said it once, said it a million times: donato doesn't have to make the rate from his career year his new normal to make what i'm saying correct. he literally just has to do marginally better than the worst scoring rate he ever put up in his entire career while maintaining a middle/top-six depth chart role and powerplay time in an anemic forward core. if he maintained ~2.85p/60, he would be an unambiguously better offensive producer than either of the other two, which is not and has never been what i am arguing we should expect.
 
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imagine this group for the next decade

Bedard
McKenna
Nazar
Rinzel
Levshunov
Desnoyers/Frondell/Hagens/Martone
Vlasic
Korchinski
Knight
Commesso
Boisvert
Moore
Vanacker
Lardis
etc etc

if you run with the younger players all year and it ends up being a tank year then its short term pain for long term gain
It sure does look amazing. Think about how much Lardis, Vanacker, Boisvert and the third this year are going to impact the other youthful talent we have.
 
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Seravalli seems to think the Sabres are going to be forced to trade Peterka, I guess things have gone south between the two.

If it’s true, Davidson has to do whatever it takes to get him.
would the TOR + FLA 1st get it done? Is that an overpay given the situation? Ideally it would start with the TOR 1st
 
Seravalli seems to think the Sabres are going to be forced to trade Peterka, I guess things have gone south between the two.

If it’s true, Davidson has to do whatever it takes to get him.
23 year old, speedy, 70 point wing?

Yeah he's gotta be all over that.

According to a user on the rumor board, Buffalo's needs are:

1.) A RHD who can actually play defense and PK
2.) A two-way center
3.) A LHD who can play with Dahlin and soak lots of minutes and play defense

1 = Connor Murphy (or Crevier?)
2 = Jason Dickinson
3 = Wyatt Kaiser

I'd definitely move any of those players for Peterka
 
23 year old, speedy, 70 point wing?

Yeah he's gotta be all over that.

According to a user on the rumor board, Buffalo's needs are:

1.) A RHD who can actually play defense and PK
2.) A two-way center
3.) A LHD who can play with Dahlin and soak lots of minutes and play defense

1 = Connor Murphy (or Crevier?)
2 = Jason Dickinson
3 = Wyatt Kaiser

I'd definitely move any of those players for Peterka
would you do Korchinski for Peterka?
 
23 year old, speedy, 70 point wing?

Yeah he's gotta be all over that.

According to a user on the rumor board, Buffalo's needs are:

1.) A RHD who can actually play defense and PK
2.) A two-way center
3.) A LHD who can play with Dahlin and soak lots of minutes and play defense

1 = Connor Murphy (or Crevier?)
2 = Jason Dickinson
3 = Wyatt Kaiser

I'd definitely move any of those players for Peterka


Murphy and Dickinson were both pretty terrible last year. They aren’t going to have much value at all. At a full cap hit I don’t know that they even have positive value at this point.

I’d imagine a deal would start with KK and then some which I’d be all over.
 
Only concern with a potential Peterka deal is that Korchinski is an obvious candidate to be in that deal with the TOR/FLA 1st but that KD is anchored to KK being his first pick, so he gives up future unprotected picks thinking they'll be outside the top 10
 
My bad, I thought he still had 1 year on his contract and didn’t realize he had no contract currently. KK might be a bit much with that being the case.

I still don’t think Murphy or Dickinson have any value, though.
 
It would likely be a sign and trade. They might look at Korchinski as not really offering them anything different than Byram anyway tbh
 
Korchinski for Peterka is an easy yes, Peterka is young and fits everything we need. I would do Korch and one of the Toronto or Florida first, it won't be easy to get him because every team will want him but I think that offer could get it done
Also, the Cozens deal showed they want to retool not rebuild, Korchinski hasn't exactly shown much at the NHL level relative to what they got now, they might be looking to swap established players...

Isaac Howard might be a more realistic target given TB is cap strapped and might just want the draft capital that Chicago has a bunch of
 
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