2025 26 Roster…too Soon

[featherhawk]

5 year deal for Carle

bring it on

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

People bash Marner for not producing in the playoffs and now when he is we are going to claim those games don’t count because of the opponent?

 

[cassac]

Then we should pass. Im not a huge fan of signing UFAs to begin with, so Im on the fence about even signing him, 13+ is crazy.

Yeah, I mean signing Hossa as an UFA was terrible

 

[x Tame Impala]

Yeah, I mean signing Hossa as an UFA was terrible

Can we sign Marner to a 12 year, cap-circumventing deal where his cap hit is 42% less than what it would be under an 7 year contract?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Can we sign Marner to a 12 year, cap-circumventing deal where his cap hit is 42% less than what it would be under an 7 year contract?

You can do anything if you set your mind to it

 

[cassac]

Can we sign Marner to a 12 year, cap-circumventing deal where his cap hit is 42% less than what it would be under an 7 year contract?

It wasn’t a cap-circumventing contract until the NHL decided it was after they approved it. Doesn’t change the fact that UFA signings can be good. Campbell was pretty good too.

 

[TheFridge]

People bash Marner for not producing in the playoffs and now when he is we are going to claim those games don’t count because of the opponent?

I think I've been pretty consistent in pointing out the fact that Marner has wilted away under pressure as series he's played in have gone on. He's been paid like one of the premiere players in this league -- and some people here want to further solidify that by paying him 13/14M per year to come here -- for a long time but in crunch time, he's never elevated his game. And we're talking about the 1st round here. The playoffs get harder after the 1st round. Imagine paying a player 14% of your cap and getting 1 goal and 9 points in 21 career games 5, 6 and 7.

Patrick Kane had 25 goals and 52 points in 41 career games 5, 6 and 7. That's money. That's what you pay for. If you want elite forward money, be an elite forward. It's honestly so great that Marner puts up 100 points in the regular season. I'm sure Leafs, after every 1st round loss, take solace in the fact that Marner had a really terrific regular season again.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I think I've been pretty consistent in pointing out the fact that Marner has wilted away under pressure as series he's played in have gone on. He's been paid like one of the premiere players in this league -- and some people here want to further solidify that by paying him 13/14M per year to come here -- for a long time but in crunch time, he's never elevated his game. And we're talking about the 1st round here. The playoffs get harder after the 1st round. Imagine paying a player 14% of your cap and getting 1 goal and 9 points in 21 career games 5, 6 and 7.

Patrick Kane had 25 goals and 52 points in 41 career games 5, 6 and 7. That's money. That's what you pay for. If you want elite forward money, be an elite forward. It's honestly so great that Marner puts up 100 points in the regular season. I'm sure Leafs, after every 1st round loss, take solace in the fact that Marner had a really terrific regular season again.

That version of Patrick Kane isn't available in free agency. Marner is.

Do you think the Hawks are going to get a PPG(+) player in this year's draft? What about next year's?

This isn't a decision between picking Kane or picking Marner. It's a decision of whether you think a player of Marner's caliber can help fill what will likely be a rather large hole up front versus what you feel his actual value is in comparison to his cap hit.

If we don't sign a player like Marner in the next few years, are you really comfortable with the best forwards up front being (something like) Bedard, Nazar, Frondell? Does that scream contender to you?

Marner might not be clutch, but he is a solid f***ing player all the same. And he'd be one of the better forwards for the foreseeable future here. And his addition may be enough that, if the Hawks can have as dynamite a defensive core as we all hope, maybe we can contend in the future. If we don't pick him (or Kaprizov or some other soon-to-be UFA of that caliber), this team likely won't be good enough over the next handful of years.

 

[Kevin Musto]

If we don't sign a player like Marner in the next few years, are you really comfortable with the best forwards up front being (something like) Bedard, Nazar, Frondell? Does that scream contender to you?

Well your first mistake is drafting Anton Frondell lol.

I just don't think Marner is going to be worth the cap hit.

I think he's good at his current 11M cap hit... I'd be willing to go to 12 max.

Anything beyond that is f***ing nuts. He's not remotely worth the same as McDavid and MacK.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Well your first mistake is drafting Anton Frondell lol.

I just don't think Marner is going to be worth the cap hit.

I think he's good at his current 11M cap hit... I'd be willing to go to 12 max.

Anything beyond that is f***ing nuts. He's not remotely worth the same as McDavid and MacK.

McDavid is getting around $20m per on his next contract. So Marner would only get paid like McDavid for a single season.

Not going to bother discussing Frondell with you. I know that's not a winning battle.

You didn't actually respond to the basic premise of my post. If we don't overpay for a guy like Marner, and this year's draft isn't providing us that level of player (something you have said in regards to drafting 3rd or 4th), than how the hell are we getting that caliber of player? Bedard might be that type of player in the future. But can we say for certain that Nazar is a PPG (+) player? Is Nick Lardis? Can the Hawks get lucky enough to get that caliber of forward in the 2026 draft?

We want Marner because he's the soonest UFA that is that elite level of player, even despite his playoff performances. Maybe we miss on him and sign Kaprizov in a year? That'd be awesome. or Eichel. Or McDavid secretly loves deep dish and signs with us for that $20m. Who knows?

But I do know that with each passing player of that caliber signing elsewhere, the odds of us getting any of them drops. Let's shoot our shot with Marner this year, and if it doesn't work out, we start looking towards potential future UFAs. It's not like we can see what Kaprizov wants and have Marner as a fallback option.

 

[Kevin Musto]

McDavid is getting around $20m per on his next contract. So Marner would only get paid like McDavid for a single season.

Not going to bother discussing Frondell with you. I know that's not a winning battle.

You didn't actually respond to the basic premise of my post. If we don't overpay for a guy like Marner, and this year's draft isn't providing us that level of player (something you have said in regards to drafting 3rd or 4th), than how the hell are we getting that caliber of player? Bedard might be that type of player in the future. But can we say for certain that Nazar is a PPG (+) player? Is Nick Lardis? Can the Hawks get lucky enough to get that caliber of forward in the 2026 draft?

We want Marner because he's the soonest UFA that is that elite level of player, even despite his playoff performances. Maybe we miss on him and sign Kaprizov in a year? That'd be awesome. or Eichel. Or McDavid secretly loves deep dish and signs with us for that $20m. Who knows?

But I do know that with each passing player of that caliber signing elsewhere, the odds of us getting any of them drops. Let's shoot our shot with Marner this year, and if it doesn't work out, we start looking towards potential future UFAs. It's not like we can see what Kaprizov wants and have Marner as a fallback option.

What's the rush?

Why not wait and see if Bedard, Nazar, Lardis become that type of player? Why not wait and see if they land McKenna? Chicago has that luxury.

I just don't look at Marner and see the ideal fit. I'd be going all in if he was a bigger power forward, if he was a clutch playoff scorer... but he isn't those things.

The Leafs are a prime example of how throwing money at great players doesn't mean they gel as a great team. And they have a much better setup for Marner in that he has big linemates to play with. Matthews and Knies are units. Who's going to do the heavy work for Marner in Chicago?

 

[CallMeShaft]

What's the rush?

Why not wait and see if Bedard, Nazar, Lardis become that type of player? Why not wait and see if they land McKenna? Chicago has that luxury.

I just don't look at Marner and see the ideal fit. I'd be going all in if he was a bigger power forward, if he was a clutch playoff scorer... but he isn't those things.

The Leafs are a prime example of how throwing money at great players doesn't mean they gel as a great team. And they have a much better setup for Marner in that he has big linemates to play with. Matthews and Knies are units. Who's going to do the heavy work for Marner in Chicago?

The Leafs are a great example of a team that struggles because the best defenseman on their team has been Morgan Reilly. Not to mention their shit goaltending over the last handful of years.

Maybe you could argue that having all of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares has kept them from improving on D or in goal. I'm less worried about that for us for two reasons.

1. I don't know that the Hawks, in let's say 5 years time, will have four forwards who take up as much cap percentage as those four have generally taken up for Toronto over the last handful of years. Like, do we really expect Frank Nazar to be commanding $12m on his next contract? And until we either sign a Marner caliber of player or get pretty fortunate in this year (or next year's) draft, Nazar may very well be the 2nd best forward we have.

2. Our defense and goaltending is coming along nicely. Rinzel and Lev have legit top pairing potential, and arguably #1 potential. Vlasic is signed cheap until 2030. We have a lot of other options for D. Those guys are in the system and they are young; they will be relatively cheap and hopefully really solid. Knight's contract is a little rich at the moment, but he's only 23 and is tracking well to being a legit starter in the NHL. Can you imagine if the Leafs had an in-his-prime Knight backstopping them?

We aren't the Leafs circa 2016/2017. Our strength is on the backend and in goal; theirs was up front and they added Tavares anyways. They tried to improve on what was already a strength just because Tavares slept in Leafs attire when he was a kid. If they forked out that cap on defense or goaltending in free agency, maybe they don't get bounced as easily.

We have an opportunity to improve what is a known deficency, let's f***ing do it.

 

[Kevin Musto]

The Leafs are a great example of a team that struggles because the best defenseman on their team has been Morgan Reilly. Not to mention their shit goaltending over the last handful of years.

Maybe you could argue that having all of Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares has kept them from improving on D or in goal. I'm less worried about that for us for two reasons.

1. I don't know that the Hawks, in let's say 5 years time, will have four forwards who take up as much cap percentage as those four have generally taken up for Toronto over the last handful of years. Like, do we really expect Frank Nazar to be commanding $12m on his next contract? And until we either sign a Marner caliber of player or get pretty fortunate in this year (or next year's) draft, Nazar may very well be the 2nd best forward we have.

2. Our defense and goaltending is coming along nicely. Rinzel and Lev have legit top pairing potential, and arguably #1 potential. Vlasic is signed cheap until 2030. We have a lot of other options for D. Those guys are in the system and they are young; they will be relatively cheap and hopefully really solid. Knight's contract is a little rich at the moment, but he's only 23 and is tracking well to being a legit starter in the NHL. Can you imagine if the Leafs had an in-his-prime Knight backstopping them?

We aren't the Leafs circa 2016/2017. Our strength is on the backend and in goal; theirs was up front and they added Tavares anyways. They tried to improve on what was already a strength just because Tavares slept in Leafs attire when he was a kid. If they forked out that cap on defense or goaltending in free agency, maybe they don't get bounced as easily.

We have an opportunity to improve what is a known deficency, let's f***ing do it.

None of that explains why you're so eager to rush things along.

Let's see what we have before we let a player, who isn't a great fit, eat up 14M for the next 7 years.

You can also make the argument that with how good the Blackhawks backend is going to be, you don't even need a player like Marner upfront anyway.

Look at Vegas in 2023. Eichel was a ppg player, then the next highest scorer was a 60 point guy. Production was spread across a few 50 point guys. But the D group and goaltending was strong so teams couldn't score against them. Best of all, none of their guys were paid over 10M. Same deal with the 2019 Blues.

If you're trying to win, you don't need a $14M 100 point player who can't score in the playoffs. It's an unnecessary allocation of cap space.

 

[CallMeShaft]

None of that explains why you're so eager to rush things along.

Let's see what we have before we let a player, who isn't a great fit, eat up 14M for the next 7 years.

You can also make the argument that with how good the Blackhawks backend is going to be, you don't even need a player like Marner upfront anyway.

Look at Vegas in 2023. Eichel was a ppg player, then the next highest scorer was a 60 point guy. Production was spread across a few 50 point guys. But the D group and goaltending was strong so teams couldn't score against them. Best of all, none of their guys were paid over 10M. Same deal with the 2019 Blues.

If you're trying to win, you don't need a $14M 100 point player who can't score in the playoffs. It's an unnecessary allocation of cap space.

If you want to argue that the forwards can do it by committee, then fine.

I, as well as many others here, would feel more comfortable with some elite forwards. And there are only so many avenues to get that caliber of player.

 

[Naster Okan]

What's the rush?

Why not wait and see if Bedard, Nazar, Lardis become that type of player? Why not wait and see if they land McKenna? Chicago has that luxury.

I just don't look at Marner and see the ideal fit. I'd be going all in if he was a bigger power forward, if he was a clutch playoff scorer... but he isn't those things.

The Leafs are a prime example of how throwing money at great players doesn't mean they gel as a great team. And they have a much better setup for Marner in that he has big linemates to play with. Matthews and Knies are units. Who's going to do the heavy work for Marner in Chicago?

I get this sentiment. It’s alluring now because of the lack of options. But who knows what happens in the next year let alone 3 months. I believe the point production would be there with Marner and Bedard but is that an ideal post season pairing? Who knows. I’ve come around more on Marner over the last couple season. I just never saw what others did in terms of his 200 ft game but I think it is pretty exceptional at times. I just think if Marner is the guy then a Landeskog/Franzen/Tuch type of player is necessary for long term success.

 

[Kevin Musto]

If you want to argue that the forwards can do it by committee, then fine.

I, as well as many others here, would feel more comfortable with some elite forwards. And there are only so many avenues to get that caliber of player.

I think Chicago can target better fits.

-For example, if they win the lotto this year and are officially out of the McKenna sweepstakes, offer sheet Knies. Unlike Marner, he's exactly what the team is looking for.

-The following year, it's time for Fantilli's extension. Make Columbus miserable with an offer sheet. $11,452,294 x 7.
2027 1st round pick, 2028 1st round pick, 2027 2nd, 2027 3rd. Do you care about those picks? I sure don't.
Will Columbus match? Probably. But then they won't be able to match our Kent Johnson offer sheet the year after that.

-Next year Kaprizov is probably a UFA, and he's built bigger than Marner and actually scores in the playoffs.

-They can trade for disgruntled players like Isaac Howard. There will no doubt be more unhappy talent in the next couple years.

-Maybe Buffalo blows it all up because they're still ass and Tage Thompson becomes available.

The point is, there are more avenues than you might think.

 

[Bubba88]

We should know about some trade options before Free Agency starts.
If there isn't any and Marner Hits the Market, you go After him.
Said it before, players like him usually don't hit the Market.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

I think Chicago can target better fits.

-For example, if they win the lotto this year and are officially out of the McKenna sweepstakes, offer sheet Knies. Unlike Marner, he's exactly what the team is looking for.

-The following year, it's time for Fantilli's extension. Make Columbus miserable with an offer sheet. $11,452,294 x 7.
2027 1st round pick, 2028 1st round pick, 2027 2nd, 2027 3rd. Do you care about those picks? I sure don't.
Will Columbus match? Probably. But then they won't be able to match our Kent Johnson offer sheet the year after that.

-Next year Kaprizov is probably a UFA, and he's built bigger than Marner and actually scores in the playoffs.

-They can trade for disgruntled players like Isaac Howard. There will no doubt be more unhappy talent in the next couple years.

-Maybe Buffalo blows it all up because they're still ass and Tage Thompson becomes available.

The point is, there are more avenues than you might think.

Offer sheets rarely happen so for you alternatives being three of them is just too out there. According to Wikipedia 12 have been signed since 1998.

Marner’s scoring pace in the playoffs is actually higher than Kaprizov. 77 vs 71 over 82 games.

I’m all for acquiring Howard but he’s likely to never even sniff the level of Marner.

Tage Thompson doesn’t really make sense in any scenario anytime soon. He’d be the last guy they’d trade with his cap hit. If he demands a trade in the near it’s going to be because he’s sick of the losing and not want to go to a team still rebuilding. That or the rebuild is close to done but you’re talking about trading for him in 4 years and he’s only got a year left on his deal at that point and is a rental.

Well your first mistake is drafting Anton Frondell lol.

I just don't think Marner is going to be worth the cap hit.

I think he's good at his current 11M cap hit... I'd be willing to go to 12 max.

Anything beyond that is f***ing nuts. He's not remotely worth the same as McDavid and MacK.

Marner in the final year of his current deal is at 13.37% of the cap. Next year with the cap in crease that's a 12.7M cap hit in year 1.

The following year they're calling for a cap of 104M and 13.37% of that cap would be a $13.9M hit.

Marner will easily get more than 12M.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

I think I've been pretty consistent in pointing out the fact that Marner has wilted away under pressure as series he's played in have gone on. He's been paid like one of the premiere players in this league -- and some people here want to further solidify that by paying him 13/14M per year to come here -- for a long time but in crunch time, he's never elevated his game. And we're talking about the 1st round here. The playoffs get harder after the 1st round. Imagine paying a player 14% of your cap and getting 1 goal and 9 points in 21 career games 5, 6 and 7.

Patrick Kane had 25 goals and 52 points in 41 career games 5, 6 and 7. That's money. That's what you pay for. If you want elite forward money, be an elite forward. It's honestly so great that Marner puts up 100 points in the regular season. I'm sure Leafs, after every 1st round loss, take solace in the fact that Marner had a really terrific regular season again.

Interesting! When does prime Patrick Kane hit the market and become an alternative for us as an UFA?

Marner is playing great in the playoffs for the second time in three years in which they're likely going to advance beyond the first round. But I guess we don't count these series because of the opponents or something.

 

[MHO]

I know the playoffs are a different animal. But I was watching some of the Toronto Ottawa game and then the Colorado Dallas game last night. I hope I'm wrong but we are so far away.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

I know the playoffs are a different animal. But I was watching some of the Toronto Ottawa game and then the Colorado Dallas game last night. I hope I'm wrong but we are so far away.

No kidding. The forward group has a long way to go. Need a legit top line player whether that be Misa or Marner. Still need another legit top 6 guy in addition to that, not to mention some guys who play a heavier playoff style. Hopefully Boisvert can be one of those guys down the road.

 

[scorehawks]

Offer sheet Knies if possible.

 

[JLarucci23]

Well your first mistake is drafting Anton Frondell lol.

I just don't think Marner is going to be worth the cap hit.

I think he's good at his current 11M cap hit... I'd be willing to go to 12 max.

Anything beyond that is f***ing nuts. He's not remotely worth the same as McDavid and MacK.

I respectfully disagree. I could comfortably give Marner 13-14 mil and have him be worth that contract for the entire length. You know you are getting PPG+ and a defensively responsible player. He would fit perfectly with Bedard.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Yeah, I mean signing Hossa as an UFA was terrible

I mean, we were in completely different scenarios, but sure.

 

[clydesdale line]

I respectfully disagree. I could comfortably give Marner 13-14 mil and have him be worth that contract for the entire length. You know you are getting PPG+ and a defensively responsible player. He would fit perfectly with Bedard.

Eh. I dont know about "perfectly". Two small players on one line? Who is going to dig pucks out of the corners? Both guys are more playmakers than snipers (although Bedard can still change that). Neither guy is strong on the forecheck. They would need a big LW to help them to help offset that (Knies?). OR.. you split them up and have the other bum slay on the 2nd line.