2025 26 Roster…too Soon

[Pertti]

I'm reading the Marner thread on the main boards, and came across this post from one of their fans:



I like Marner for his scoring, skating and especially the defense he brings with that package, but if he's this much of a perimeter player, he won't be a good fit with Bedard, especially down the line.

We need some legitimate skill for Connor, and of course 100 point regular seasons are no fluke.

But if we manage to land him, we will need a plan for some board/net front physical players as well, otherwise we'd be forcing Bedard into position we don't want again.

I think the ideal situation for Connor is if he can be the skill, high up last in the zone guy, and there are two hardworking grinder skill guys on his wing. Marner is not that (although I think he would be lights out with Nazar).

So anyway long winded post, but if we do land Marner and if the lottery balls go that way and we bring in Misa, we will have to rebalance the roster.

I am suprised how bad he discribes Marner because when I have seen him play he has been in most cases better than Matthews. In playoffs he's been badder but Matthews hasn't been much better. Best of the Leafs top 4 in playoffs been Nylander almost every time.

 

[Il Stugotz]

Re: Marner and the Leafs
I've watched a fair amount of Leafs playoff hockey, and I think their biggest problem has actually been with their defensemen, who, except for Morgan Rielly, haven't contributed much on offense in terms of dynamic playmaking. Contrast that with any of the Cup winners in the 2020s and the gap is substantial. Like the Leafs defenders tended to stay in position and make simple plays (or in the case of Jake Gardiner pinch and get beat at the worst possible moments). The forwards and defensemen seem disconnected and don't function as a 5-man unit.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

Re: Marner and the Leafs
I've watched a fair amount of Leafs playoff hockey, and I think their biggest problem has actually been with their defensemen, who, except for Morgan Rielly, haven't contributed much on offense in terms of dynamic playmaking. Contrast that with any of the Cup winners in the 2020s and the gap is substantial. Like the Leafs defenders tended to stay in position and make simple plays (or in the case of Jake Gardiner pinch and get beat at the worst possible moments). The forwards and defensemen seem disconnected and don't function as a 5-man unit.

While Stolarz was very good this year, previously their goalies have been pretty shit too.

Marner was fantastic last night.

 

[Hawkaholic]

we're still pretending Marner doesn't re-sign with the Leafs?

I've always thought he would re-sign with the Leafs, until they tried to trade him at the Deadline, that makes me 2nd guess it, now.

 

[Cold Steel on Ice]

I would sign Marner in a heartbeat.Also might offer Tavares 25m for 3 years.He is great at face offs and can teach the youths.Marner and Tavares can be big components in 3 years when some of the draft picks start to make the big club.The cap keeps going up so money should be no issue in the future.Jeannot also for toughness but can actually play would would also be a nice add.

 

[Hull2Roenick2Kane]

sounds like the Canucks problems are continuing. found this gem amongst others over at the Canuck board.

 

[TheFridge]

You listed a bunch of players not yet eligible for extensions and the odds are against any of those guys actually making it to UFA. Players of that caliber almost never do.

And Marner is in a whole different tier of player than Jones ever was. I'm not necessarily saying it would be wise to sign him to a record contract, and the timeline definitely isn't ideal, but he is one of the best wings in the game on both sides of the puck. He's not merely another "good" player.

I listed a bunch of guys with contracts expiring in the years I listed. Whether they re-sign or not is irrelevant to the point that if they don't, they'll be UFAs.

What do you call a guy that puts up points in the regular season but doesn't show up in the playoffs? Because it's not great or elite or exceptional. Good seems about right.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I listed a bunch of guys with contracts expiring in the years I listed. Whether they re-sign or not is irrelevant to the point that if they don't, they'll be UFAs.

What do you call a guy that puts up points in the regular season but doesn't show up in the playoffs? Because it's not great or elite or exceptional. Good seems about right.

53 points in 58 career playoff games...so almost a ppg player in the postseason and 90-100 points in regular season...where exactly are they going to find that kind of player without giving up a ton in a trade or hoping someone pans out like that in the draft and that you're bad enough for long enough to get the player

 

[TheFridge]

1. Most of those guys you listed will re-sign with their teams. You might get one of those guys hit free agency.
2. Seth Jones wasn't a "good" 30yo player here. I'd almost be willing to say he was bad.
3. Hawks are strong on right side D, with both Rinzel and Levshunov knocking on the door step. What we don't have is guys up front who can flirt with 100pts a season.
4. Cap space is likely there for at least the next handful of seasons.

And Marner is still more likely to sign with Toronto than leave, but here Hawks fans are, salivating over the idea of signing him to a ridiculous contract.

Seth Jones was playing 25 minutes a night as a miscast offensive D here. He is a good player, just not an elite one. He's definitely not bad.

Bedard is going to be a 100-point scorer through his prime. The Hawks are also bad, and will be drafting high again this year and next.

Cap space is great until you start giving out 13/14M AAV deals to 28-year-olds and then have to re-sign your own budding players coming off ELCs and bridge deals.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

comparing seth jones to marner is comical

 

[TheFridge]

53 points in 58 career playoff games...so almost a ppg player in the postseason and 90-100 points in regular season...where exactly are they going to find that kind of player without giving up a ton in a trade or hoping someone pans out like that in the draft and that you're bad enough for long enough to get the player

Mitch Marner, whose teams are a combined 1-8 in playoff series' in his career, in games 5-7 of those series':

21 games played
1 goal
9 points.

Sure, let's give him 13/14M per year.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Mitch Marner, whose teams are a combined 1-8 in playoff series' in his career, in games 5-7 of those series':

21 games played
1 goal
9 points.

Sure, let's give him 13/14M per year.

You do realize that they tried to hand out a max term deal to Guentzel right? So, if we live in a world where they're going to aggressively seek out a top 6 forward then give me Marner every day of the week over Sam Bennett or Brock Boeser or Brock Nelson...

 

[CallMeShaft]

And Marner is still more likely to sign with Toronto than leave, but here Hawks fans are, salivating over the idea of signing him to a ridiculous contract.

Seth Jones was playing 25 minutes a night as a miscast offensive D here. He is a good player, just not an elite one. He's definitely not bad.

Bedard is going to be a 100-point scorer through his prime. The Hawks are also bad, and will be drafting high again this year and next.

Cap space is great until you start giving out 13/14M AAV deals to 28-year-olds and then have to re-sign your own budding players coming off ELCs and bridge deals.

Yes, Marner is more likely to sign with Toronto. That does not mean we can't be dreaming of him here.

I do not agree about Jones. I think he was net negative on the ice, and an even bigger negative in the locker room. I base the locker room part of it off of comments made by the team afterwards including Foligno using the phrase "addition by subtraction" multiple times.

Bedard will be, but he can't carry the offense by himself. If Marner hits free agency, there will be that caliber of player available to add for nothing more than cap space. There are no guarantees we draft that caliber of player this year.

 

[TheFridge]

You do realize that they tried to hand out a max term deal to Guentzel right? So, if we live in a world where they're going to aggressively seek out a top 6 forward then give me Marner every day of the week over Sam Bennett or Brock Boeser or Brock Nelson...

You do realize I'm not arguing about whether or not the Hawks *will* offer Marner a contract if he hits free agency, right?

I'm arguing that they shouldn't.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

You do realize I'm not arguing about whether or not the Hawks *will* offer Marner a contract if he hits free agency, right?

I'm arguing that they shouldn't.

If I had confidence that they would stick to a patient timeline that is long enough to solve the top 6 issues through the draft then I'd say stick to that, but given the messaging in the media and the Guenztel offer last year I don't know if thats going to happen.

So, if I have to choose a UFA to give a big contract to this summer then its Marner. Elite, consistent production over multiple seasons, fills a need, can play all situations, they can do much much worse if they're trying to add a 'big fish', and all he requires is cap space, which they have an abundance of right now, and thats including a lot of dead weight cap that will be off the books soon enough

 

[TheFridge]

Yes, Marner is more likely to sign with Toronto. That does not mean we can't be dreaming of him here.

I do not agree about Jones. I think he was net negative on the ice, and an even bigger negative in the locker room. I base the locker room part of it off of comments made by the team afterwards including Foligno using the phrase "addition by subtraction" multiple times.

Bedard will be, but he can't carry the offense by himself. If Marner hits free agency, there will be that caliber of player available to add for nothing more than cap space. There are no guarantees we draft that caliber of player this year.

So Marner is a fine dream but Kaprizov or Eichel aren't?

I don't care for Jones and I'm glad he's gone. He's not a bad player and he wasn't a net-negative on the ice. He was overpaid and put in the wrong role. He's not and wasn't a good offensive D/PP QB. He needs a partner that can move the puck and allow him to focus on getting stops defensively. The Hawks asked him to be a Makar/Karlsson/Hughes and got predictably bad results.

There are no guarantees this year and by signing Marner you're reducing your chances at drafting one next year. Meanwhile, you're going to miss the playoffs against next year with or without Marner, so when exactly are the Hawks going to be good again? When Marner is 31? 32? Is the justification for signing Marner that the Hawks believe this team is ready to ascend or is it to placate an impatient fanbase that can't handle the lean years of a scorched-earth rebuild?

 

[TheFridge]

If I had confidence that they would stick to a patient timeline that is long enough to solve the top 6 issues through the draft then I'd say stick to that, but given the messaging in the media and the Guenztel offer last year I don't know if thats going to happen.

So, if I have to choose a UFA to give a big contract to this summer then its Marner. Elite, consistent production over multiple seasons, fills a need, can play all situations, they can do much much worse if they're trying to add a 'big fish', and all he requires is cap space, which they have an abundance of right now, and thats including a lot of dead weight cap that will be off the books soon enough

Of course, you don't have to choose. I'd certainly like to think that part of the reason why the Hawks didn't land Guentzel was that they didn't go stupid with term. No way to avoid that with Marner.

 

[CallMeShaft]

So Marner is a fine dream but Kaprizov or Eichel aren't?

Marner is looking like he might hit free agency. He's months away from it. Kaprizov and Eichel aren't.

It's not like you just can wait for Kaprizov to decide where he wants to go and then decide what you want to do with maybe acquiring Marner. Marner is the first chance we'll have, from this point forward, to add a significant forward in free agency. If we strike out on him, then you start looking at other guys who will potentially be available down the line.

 

[Deputy McRizzy]

I don't care for Jones and I'm glad he's gone. He's not a bad player and he wasn't a net-negative on the ice.

You can’t honestly say they didn’t perform better when he was out injured. Absolutely was a negative out there.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Of course, you don't have to choose. I'd certainly like to think that part of the reason why the Hawks didn't land Guentzel was that they didn't go stupid with term. No way to avoid that with Marner.

Marner and that's it for me. 7 years 13.5 per - you have Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Foligno, Dickinson, Mikheyev, Veleno Shea Weber, Connor Murphy and TJ Brodie on the books next year for a total of 42m cap dollars...they have levers to pull to fit in Marner and extend their young core as they come due and it starts with allocating cap more efficiently

 

[Taze em]

Elias Petterson. We need to have a serious conversation about EP. He is ripe for the picking, cheap to trade for and signed longterm at 11.6 trough 2032.

1 point in his last 10 games.

102 points in 80 games 22/23 Age 23/24 7th in Selke
89 points in 82 games 23/24 Age 24/25
45 points in 64 games 24/25 Age 25/26

Rumors swirl around him. The Miller drama is well documented. There are some pretty wild ones I won't get in to. But at some point he comes so cheap you have to really think about it. I have some trades rattling around in my brain. the 11.6 really does not bother me but I get that it's a little risky.

 

[dj Mahoney]

Elias Petterson. We need to have a serious conversation about EP. He is ripe for the picking, cheap to trade for and signed longterm at 11.6 trough 2032.

1 point in his last 10 games.

102 points in 80 games 22/23 Age 23/24 7th in Selke
89 points in 82 games 23/24 Age 24/25
45 points in 64 games 24/25 Age 25/26

Rumors swirl around him. The Miller drama is well documented. There are some pretty wild ones I won't get in to. But at some point he comes so cheap you have to really think about it. I have some trades rattling around in my brain. the 11.6 really does not bother me but I get that it's a little risky.

PASS the guy has proved ZIP and will cost players and draft picks. Way better options UFA's , without giving up anything but money .

 

[Taze em]

PASS the guy has proved ZIP and will cost players and draft picks. Way better options UFA's , without giving up anything but money .

As Marner insurance? You whiff on Marner, Kaprizov resigns this summer and Eichel resigns this summer. That is a VERY likely scenario.

 

[dj Mahoney]

As Marner insurance? You whiff on Marner, Kaprizov resigns this summer and Eichel resigns this summer. That is a VERY likely scenario.

I just want no part of Petterson ,soft & sulky . UFA's are the way to go and be patient with the kids.

 

[ello]

There's something weird about the whole Pettersson situation that I just don't want to be a part of, I feel like he doesn't handle adversity very well.