2025 26 Roster…too Soon

[Deputy McRizzy]

I’d rather have one elite guy at this point vs a couple of plugs. Especially if it’s someone like Marner who has a type of game that is likely to age incredibly well. Get the guy you already know is elite if you somehow can convince him to get here.

Plenty of other guys on the way that should make a big impact, but the odds of them becoming as good as Marner is…. Well, I wouldn’t bet on it.

2024 - 3 first round picks
2023 - 2 first round picks
2022 - 3 first round picks

2025 - 2 first round picks
2026 - 2 first round picks

Not to mention the crazy amount of second round picks they have as well.

If they end up having too much talent and need to figure the cap out then deal with it at that point and that’s just a great “problem” to have.

 

[Cold Steel on Ice]

Mariner would help Bedard put up numbers. Great all around player that works his ass off every shift. Him and Tavares would be great additions.

 

[BHawk21]

He signed his contract on July 1st, after the Lightning traded for his rights on June 30th. He went to market for all intents and purposes, the team that eventually signed him just got his rights a day early.

If you were the GM, we'd have Necas for whatever stupid package you wanted to offer at the time and we'd have Guentzel on a 7-year-deal for more AAV than he signed for him TB. We'd be well on our way to reaching and stagnating in the murky NHL middle. We definitely disagree on that being where we want to end up.

I never said I wanted Guentzel....

I wanted Necas at 8x7.5 for Reichel and Toronto 1st

You are saying you want to trade for younger talent and not spend on Marner. Guess what. Necas was the guy last year....

"The Lightning officially announced on Monday morning the signing of pending unrestricted free agent Jake Guentzel, making the news official just hours before Guentzel was set to hit the open market." Details.

 

[u2wojo]

Bertuzzi and Teravainen aren't going to be here when the window opens. They're stop-gaps. Better stop-gaps than we had the year prior, but stop-gaps nonetheless and their contracts at the time of signing represented <6.25% of the cap.

It's not the 13 or 14M next year that matters. It's not the 13 or 14M that matters in the next 3 years. It's going to be years 5-7 of that contract that have a high likelihood of tanking the Hawks cap.

Bedard's getting big money some time over the length of that contract. Levshunov, if he hits, will be getting big money. Rinzel if he hits. Whoever you draft this year. Whoever you draft next year. Some of the kids they've drafted are going to pop and will need new big contracts.

Every team is destined to make tough roster choices at some point in any competitive window. I don't see the point in compounding that by signing a guy who has never been worth the contract he's signed to currently, to a deal in which his impact will be greatest in years that will matter the least to the Hawks competitive window.

We have 2 commitments for year 5 for 7.1 (Vlassic and Jones retention) and ZERO cap commitment 6 years out. If Bedards is a superstar, if Lev, if Rinzel, if Nazar, if whoever we draft with the 1st pick this year is a bunch of if's that when it comes to prospects NEVER come to fruition. And IF somehow everyone of those guys and then some somehow actually became not if's....what a pleasant problem to sort out as you have highly desireable young talent you can move for younger desireable talent or premium futures.

 

[TheFridge]

I never said I wanted Guentzel....

I wanted Necas at 8x7.5 for Reichel and Toronto 1st

You are saying you want to trade for younger talent and not spend on Marner. Guess what. Necas was the guy last year....

"The Lightning officially announced on Monday morning the signing of pending unrestricted free agent Jake Guentzel, making the news official just hours before Guentzel was set to hit the open market." Details.

Post in thread '2024-25 Roster…too soon?'

Jun 5, 2024

Im probably not the only 1 that refreshes twitter way to Much.
grant Mcagg hearing CHI and ANA are leaning Defense-
Freidge wild prediction is jake guentsel to CHI
Wheeler said he has heard Hage is taller then the 6-0/1 that has been reported should know in a few days. if he is 6-2 probably moves up is my guess.
also the S & C coach for hawks does not look at scouting reports he tries to predict what they will look like at 22. when he meets them at the combine

Jake Guentzel for 7x9 million Ages 30 to 37
Martin Necas 7x7.5 million Ages 25-33 for Reichel+ or Toronto 1st +

• BHawk21

Post in thread '2024-25 Roster…too soon?'

Jun 5, 2024

Yes and? I don't see many contenders that would be able to take on their contracts. It's like, you can stay on this team that doesn't want you and they'll bury you in the lineup or you can go to a team that does want you and you get to play with Bedard to run out your contract. Maybe they stay. Point is, it's something worth exploring.

"Most of those free agents want term or won't come here." Can you read everyone's minds, or just soon to be UFA players?

GIving up an asset (or assets) to get a player whose best years will be right now and the next 3-4 years -- years the...

• BHawk21

So we'd have signed Guentzel to a 7x9M contract (though to be fair to you, that was just speculation. We know he signed for that amount with Tampa. let's add another million for CHIs offer to sweeten the pot).

And we'd have traded Nazar and Boisvert for Necas and signed him to an 8-year deal at 7.5M (though again, just speculation. He signed for 2x6.5, so considering you'd be buying way more UFA years, the number would have likely exceeded 7.5M per).

I don't know what your quote was supposed to show. The Hurricanes were not going to re-sign him, they were the only team that could have offered 8 years, they put Guentzel on the market, the Lightning acquired his rights and then signed him on July 1st. You know what "for all intents and purposes" means, right?

 

[Mrfenn92]

We would’ve never gotten Necas for Reichel and a late first

 

[TheFridge]

We have 2 commitments for year 5 for 7.1 (Vlassic and Jones retention) and ZERO cap commitment 6 years out. If Bedards is a superstar, if Lev, if Rinzel, if Nazar, if whoever we draft with the 1st pick this year is a bunch of if's that when it comes to prospects NEVER come to fruition. And IF somehow everyone of those guys and then some somehow actually became not if's....what a pleasant problem to sort out as you have highly desireable young talent you can move for younger desireable talent or premium futures.

So we're going to move the home grown talent to keep a post-30s Marner at the beginning of our competitive window and that's "a pleasant problem" to have if we need to trade them for futures?

We know Bedard's going to cost a boatload .That's not an if. The rest are, but that's what a rebuild is predicated on. The Hawks have enough lottery tickets that it's likely 2-3 are going to pop, like Vlasic popped, and it doesn't take a lot of time to run out of money, especially when you've got a 32, 33, 34-year-old Marner making 14M per.

 

[Muffinalt]

I would welcome Marner with open arms, but one thing I actually don't like is that he's in the same mold of fast but smaller players (as in not net front, more perimeter, more skill). The defense would be fantastic.

Bedard, Nazar, Lardis, Kantserov, Misa potentially. They're all more or less those types of players... I would be more happy if instead of Marner we'd be talking Tkachuk or Reinhardt but of course you can't control that.

Also this is just a minor nitpick, but I would like to have Nazar as a center going forward, but Marner would be such a good fit for Bedard. If we end up with Misa though, Nazar needs to move to wing.

Of course the latter is total fantasy for now, just goes to show how much I'd be happy with actually landing Marner.

 

[u2wojo]

So we're going to move the home grown talent to keep a post-30s Marner at the beginning of our competitive window and that's "a pleasant problem" to have if we need to trade them for futures?

We know Bedard's going to cost a boatload .That's not an if. The rest are, but that's what a rebuild is predicated on. The Hawks have enough lottery tickets that it's likely 2-3 are going to pop, like Vlasic popped, and it doesn't take a lot of time to run out of money, especially when you've got a 32, 33, 34-year-old Marner making 14M per.

I would rather have to many stars and figure out the cap than never get there (and have all sorts of cap space) because the vaunted prospects and draft picks don't all (or in sufficient quantities) work out as hoped or projected (becasue they NEVER do). Even Bedard has some proving to do. Bedard is not getting a boatload based on what he is today and while it is reasonable to project what he will be based on what he has done at a real young age, that next step needs to actually happen.

I see Marner's game aging well and would be more comfortable at 13 than I would be at 14. In the end, I don't see Marner in Chicago at 13 or 14 or any number so this conversation is all not overly realistic theory.

 

[Pertti]

We don't know anything about their offer for Guentzel. We don't know the term, the AAV, nothing. We know they made an offer to him. Great.

If the offer was insult it would have been out.

 

[Pertti]

Post in thread '2024-25 Roster…too soon?'

Jun 5, 2024

Im probably not the only 1 that refreshes twitter way to Much.
grant Mcagg hearing CHI and ANA are leaning Defense-
Freidge wild prediction is jake guentsel to CHI
Wheeler said he has heard Hage is taller then the 6-0/1 that has been reported should know in a few days. if he is 6-2 probably moves up is my guess.
also the S & C coach for hawks does not look at scouting reports he tries to predict what they will look like at 22. when he meets them at the combine

Jake Guentzel for 7x9 million Ages 30 to 37
Martin Necas 7x7.5 million Ages 25-33 for Reichel+ or Toronto 1st +

• BHawk21

Post in thread '2024-25 Roster…too soon?'

Jun 5, 2024

Yes and? I don't see many contenders that would be able to take on their contracts. It's like, you can stay on this team that doesn't want you and they'll bury you in the lineup or you can go to a team that does want you and you get to play with Bedard to run out your contract. Maybe they stay. Point is, it's something worth exploring.

"Most of those free agents want term or won't come here." Can you read everyone's minds, or just soon to be UFA players?

GIving up an asset (or assets) to get a player whose best years will be right now and the next 3-4 years -- years the...

• BHawk21

So we'd have signed Guentzel to a 7x9M contract (though to be fair to you, that was just speculation. We know he signed for that amount with Tampa. let's add another million for CHIs offer to sweeten the pot).

And we'd have traded Nazar and Boisvert for Necas and signed him to an 8-year deal at 7.5M (though again, just speculation. He signed for 2x6.5, so considering you'd be buying way more UFA years, the number would have likely exceeded 7.5M per).

I don't know what your quote was supposed to show. The Hurricanes were not going to re-sign him, they were the only team that could have offered 8 years, they put Guentzel on the market, the Lightning acquired his rights and then signed him on July 1st. You know what "for all intents and purposes" means, right?

I believe Carolina did their best to sign Guentzel but failed.

 

[BHawk21]

We would’ve never gotten Necas for Reichel and a late first

In response to Reichel and Late first

"I assume you're kidding because that would be a really silly move. You can literally wait a couple years and sign a Martin Necas level player for "free" (i.e., cap space). No idea why people are hellbent on trading draft capital for mid-20s guys a few years from UFA age while the Hawks still suck."

Fridge liked this one

If you look at the thread talking about trading for Necas everyone was against it for that price.

Please look at the responses at this time. Necas was a year away from RFA and going to cash in while Carolina didnt want to pay him.

Now it looks silly because Necas looks great and Reichel is a bust.

 

[BHawk21]

Post in thread '2024-25 Roster…too soon?'

Jun 5, 2024

Im probably not the only 1 that refreshes twitter way to Much.
grant Mcagg hearing CHI and ANA are leaning Defense-
Freidge wild prediction is jake guentsel to CHI
Wheeler said he has heard Hage is taller then the 6-0/1 that has been reported should know in a few days. if he is 6-2 probably moves up is my guess.
also the S & C coach for hawks does not look at scouting reports he tries to predict what they will look like at 22. when he meets them at the combine

Jake Guentzel for 7x9 million Ages 30 to 37
Martin Necas 7x7.5 million Ages 25-33 for Reichel+ or Toronto 1st +

• BHawk21

Post in thread '2024-25 Roster…too soon?'

Jun 5, 2024

Yes and? I don't see many contenders that would be able to take on their contracts. It's like, you can stay on this team that doesn't want you and they'll bury you in the lineup or you can go to a team that does want you and you get to play with Bedard to run out your contract. Maybe they stay. Point is, it's something worth exploring.

"Most of those free agents want term or won't come here." Can you read everyone's minds, or just soon to be UFA players?

GIving up an asset (or assets) to get a player whose best years will be right now and the next 3-4 years -- years the...

• BHawk21

So we'd have signed Guentzel to a 7x9M contract (though to be fair to you, that was just speculation. We know he signed for that amount with Tampa. let's add another million for CHIs offer to sweeten the pot).

And we'd have traded Nazar and Boisvert for Necas and signed him to an 8-year deal at 7.5M (though again, just speculation. He signed for 2x6.5, so considering you'd be buying way more UFA years, the number would have likely exceeded 7.5M per).

I don't know what your quote was supposed to show. The Hurricanes were not going to re-sign him, they were the only team that could have offered 8 years, they put Guentzel on the market, the Lightning acquired his rights and then signed him on July 1st. You know what "for all intents and purposes" means, right?

Guentzel was a freidman speculation. I never wanted Guentzel...'

Heres some quotes from me disproving everything you just said.

"Jake Guentzel would be a wild fit for this team just because of the age and size."

"I dont think Guentzel takes anything less than 6 years. Its his time to cash in. Hes been playing on discount his entire career. That would be his 30-36/37 years. Kane just was a PPG offensive player at 35.... I dont think its the right time to pull the trigger on this age player"

Trying to pin that on me lol

As for trading Nazar

" If the cost is 18th and Nazar or Moore you dont do it. Its not that complicated. and that poster explained it to you."

June 5 2024

Looks like you were wrong on all accounts.

June 10 2024

 

[BHawk21]

The fact is I wanted Necas for Reichel 1st +. I wouldnt have made that trade if it costed Nazar. Then fought that 7.75 was a good price for him and that it was a good time to trade for him.

I didnt want Guentzel.

@TheFridge was wrong about Necas and is wrong about Marner IMO. Trying to pin made up rosters on me is wild.

 

[Crow]

Yeah I just think the price tag is too high.

$12M+ for a guy that isn't even in the top 50 for goals?

He's a great player, just not for that amount.

That’s a pretty weird way to evaluate a players value.

 

[TheFridge]

I still don’t think Marner cares about winning and is going to give it his all when games matter most. That’s not worth $12-$14m AAV over 7 years for me.

How long is he going to play at a 25-30g, 90-100pt pace for? He’s got that “I’m checking out after my big pay day” aura ALL OVER HIM

I think he cares but for the top guys in the league, I think it's more hating losing than it is wanting to win. I think those big four in Toronto want to win, but they don't hate to lose enough, so they're not motivated enough to adapt and push through adversity in crunch time. They want to win their way, instead of just doing what it takes to win.

 

[Mrfenn92]

In response to Reichel and Late first

"I assume you're kidding because that would be a really silly move. You can literally wait a couple years and sign a Martin Necas level player for "free" (i.e., cap space). No idea why people are hellbent on trading draft capital for mid-20s guys a few years from UFA age while the Hawks still suck."

Fridge liked this one

If you look at the thread talking about trading for Necas everyone was against it for that price.

Please look at the responses at this time. Necas was a year away from RFA and going to cash in while Carolina didnt want to pay him.

Now it looks silly because Necas looks great and Reichel is a bust.

?

 

[BHawk21]

?

There was pages of chats saying that Reichel and Toronto 1st would be a bad move for the blackhawks. This was when Necas was looking for a trade and before he signed his 2 year deal.

 

[Mrfenn92]

There was pages of chats saying that Reichel and Toronto 1st would be a bad move for the blackhawks. This was when Necas was looking for a trade and before he signed his 2 year deal.

Ok

 

[EbonyRaptor]

The 2025/26 roster will still have too many "transition" players under contract to be much different than the current roster. Unless there are trades - we'll still have Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Foligno, Dickenson, Mikheyev, Veleno, Reichel, Nazar and Bedard and there's a good possibility Donato gets resigned. That's 10 forward even before the possibility of KD signing a high end forward in free agency. Has Slaggert done enough to be a fulltime NHL'er? Dach? Will Moore or Lardis or some other rookie break in? Seems like a pretty crowded forward group with maybe only 1 or 2 spots open for competition.

Pretty much the same on defense although the good news there is that a bunch of the young players have already either established themselves in the NHL or are close enough to at least get a bunch of time in the NHL next season. But ... still got Murphy and the corpse of Brodie still on the roster.

Goaltending has it's own question mark - how will the Brossoit situation play out?

Looks like the 2025/26 season won't be too different than the 2024/25 season ... which wasn't too different than the 2023/24 season ... which wasn't too different than the 2022/23 season.

 

[MHO]

The 2025/26 roster will still have too many "transition" players under contract to be much different than the current roster. Unless there are trades - we'll still have Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Foligno, Dickenson, Mikheyev, Veleno, Reichel, Nazar and Bedard and there's a good possibility Donato gets resigned. That's 10 forward even before the possibility of KD signing a high end forward in free agency. Has Slaggert done enough to be a fulltime NHL'er? Dach? Will Moore or Lardis or some other rookie break in? Seems like a pretty crowded forward group with maybe only 1 or 2 spots open for competition.

Pretty much the same on defense although the good news there is that a bunch of the young players have already either established themselves in the NHL or are close enough to at least get a bunch of time in the NHL next season. But ... still got Murphy and the corpse of Brodie still on the roster.

Goaltending has it's own question mark - how will the Brossoit situation play out?

Looks like the 2025/26 season won't be too different than the 2024/25 season ... which wasn't too different than the 2023/24 season ... which wasn't too different than the 2022/23 season.

Those names are everyone who is signed but we don't know who will be traded. I'd be surprised if Reichel isn't traded in the offseason at this point.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

The 2025/26 roster will still have too many "transition" players under contract to be much different than the current roster. Unless there are trades - we'll still have Bertuzzi, Teravainen, Foligno, Dickenson, Mikheyev, Veleno, Reichel, Nazar and Bedard and there's a good possibility Donato gets resigned. That's 10 forward even before the possibility of KD signing a high end forward in free agency. Has Slaggert done enough to be a fulltime NHL'er? Dach? Will Moore or Lardis or some other rookie break in? Seems like a pretty crowded forward group with maybe only 1 or 2 spots open for competition.

Pretty much the same on defense although the good news there is that a bunch of the young players have already either established themselves in the NHL or are close enough to at least get a bunch of time in the NHL next season. But ... still got Murphy and the corpse of Brodie still on the roster.

Goaltending has it's own question mark - how will the Brossoit situation play out?

Looks like the 2025/26 season won't be too different than the 2024/25 season ... which wasn't too different than the 2023/24 season ... which wasn't too different than the 2022/23 season.

its not the worst thing if this team has 1-2 more tank years, we need a few more high end blue chip forward prospects badly but you can start to see the light at the end of the tunnel toward a playoff caliber team if they are smart to not "speed it up" with overly aggressive moves

 

[giza]

I would be surprised if Reichel is on the team.....other than speed and the occasional skill moment, he's invisible and just collecting a paycheck. He should go back to Europe and be a stud in the Swiss league....just doesn't have an NHLer's mindset to succeed. I can see 2 forwards being signed, 3 if Donato flies the coop.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

I would be surprised if Reichel is on the team.....other than speed and the occasional skill moment, he's invisible and just collecting a paycheck. He should go back to Europe and be a stud in the Swiss league....just doesn't have an NHLer's mindset to succeed. I can see 2 forwards being signed, 3 if Donato flies the coop.

He'll go to Vegas or Florida and they'll fix him somehow

 

[Crow]

To me he is a decent 4th liner. Not a guy who is going to hurt you. He made a small amount of progress offensively at the NHL level this year and has been much better with the puck and entries and defensively. However he started at a very low point so any growth was not too hard to achieve. Still if the guy can continue to grow I think he could find himself on the 3rd line someday regularly.

Edit: Stats kind of showed this better before the hawks got buried for the last stretch.

WOW he has been terrible for a month. I guess I lost interest a bit and i should shut up. I definitely haven’t been watching as intently lately just at bars and a period or two at times. Damn. I feel like I’m just stat watching for saying this but I think he’s done here based on that.