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2025 26 Roster…too Soon

BHawk21 said:
Mitch Marner is SOOOOOO underrated its insane. Hes a walking 95 point selke winger. Davidson may pay him 15 million to come.
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He's not. Everyone knows what Marner is. Being a high-end scorer is great but when you never step up in the playoffs, it doesn't really matter.

We should be talking about Marner in the same breath as guys like Kane and Kucherov. Like you said, he's a 100-point wing and he's good/great defensively. But will we ever? Probably not, bc the guy can't perform when the game gets tough.
 
giza said:
Stan used to talk about team toughness----but you also had Byflugien, Brouwer and Bickell was a big kid. KD better attend to the fact that some teams will take liberties with the youngans if there isn't a deterrent. I always thought Edmundsen was a tough customer and could come in handy as a 7th D man for just that reason, but he's getting up there. Tanner Jeannot, an UFA to be, seems like a reasonable option as well. Spellacy in a couple of years looks like he would cherish that role as well.
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You don't need deterrents. Buff wasn't here for most of the dynasty years and neither Brouwer or Bickell were "tough guys" really. The Hawks, as a team -- almost to a man -- were as tough as they'd come back in the day. It wasn't a single guy giving them their backbone. Keith and Sharp were nails. Seabrook was a wall. Hammer was heavy metal. Shaw was a buzzsaw.

Hopefully with some of these guys coming up together, they can build that brotherhood that will make them go to battle for each other. But you need dogs. You need guys that have that in them. And if you're going to be successful in the NHL; if you're going to win, you'll have dogs.
 
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Marner's playoff numbers aren't even that bad. Its just really hard to get over the hump. He's had some bad moments, but he's also played in a tough market that highlights every flaw and talks about it 24/7. He's an awesome player. I honestly hate talking about him here because I don't think there is a chance in hell he comes.
 
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TLEH said:
Marner's playoff numbers aren't even that bad. It’s just really hard to get over the hump. He's had some bad moments, but he's also played in a tough market that highlights every flaw and talks about it 24/7. He's an awesome player. I honestly hate talking about him here because I don't think there is a chance in hell he comes.
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Yup and marner was great in the four nations finals, a game that players compared to Stanley Cup finals games

You’re not a winner until you are !
 
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TLEH said:
Marner's playoff numbers aren't even that bad. Its just really hard to get over the hump. He's had some bad moments, but he's also played in a tough market that highlights every flaw and talks about it 24/7. He's an awesome player. I honestly hate talking about him here because I don't think there is a chance in hell he comes.
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Over the last 6 seasons preceding this one, he's scored points at a rate of 1.22 per game and goals at a rate of 0.37 per game in the regular season. In the playoffs, he's scored points at a rate of 0.84 per game and goals at a rate of 0.18 per game. In 16 games 5, 6 and 7 in playoff series over those years, he has zero goals and 5 assists in those games. He does not step up when it counts. He's not the only problem in Toronto but he is a big part of it.
 
TLEH said:
Marner's playoff numbers aren't even that bad. Its just really hard to get over the hump. He's had some bad moments, but he's also played in a tough market that highlights every flaw and talks about it 24/7. He's an awesome player. I honestly hate talking about him here because I don't think there is a chance in hell he comes.
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where do you think he goes? Vegas had the Hawks at #2 to land Matthews when he was almost a pending UFA, why would Marner be a zero percent chance of happening
 
TheFridge said:
He's not. Everyone knows what Marner is. Being a high-end scorer is great but when you never step up in the playoffs, it doesn't really matter.

We should be talking about Marner in the same breath as guys like Kane and Kucherov. Like you said, he's a 100-point wing and he's good/great defensively. But will we ever? Probably not, bc the guy can't perform when the game gets tough.
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Yes, proving my point hes underrated. I know all the talking points.

Why should we be talking about him in the same breath? Those guys have 6 cups between them. You think hes as talented as Kucherov and Kane? If so then we should for sure try to sign him.

Hes 17th overall in PPG in the playoffs and its only a 57 game sample size. One good playoff run woud put him right there with Kane Point Malkin Guentzel Pasta.

As of now hes got the same PPG as Ovi Marchand an Tkachuk. Leafs microscope.
 
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BHawk21 said:
Yes, proving my point hes underrated. I know all the talking points.

Why should we be talking about him in the same breath? Those guys have 6 cups between them. You think hes as talented as Kucherov and Kane? If so then we should for sure try to sign him.

Hes 17th overall in PPG in the playoffs and its only a 31 game sample size. One good playoff run woud put him right there with Kane Point Malkin Guentzel Pasta.

As of now hes got the same PPG as Ovi Marchand an Tkachuk. Leafs microscope.
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How does any of what I said prove he's underrated? No one claims Marner isn't a great player in the regular season. And on talent, he should be talked about like Kane or Kucherov but he's not and can you figure out why? Because talent isn't the only thing that matters in the NHL.

He's 17th overall in PpG in the playoffs over how many games as a sample size? What are we talking about here? What 31 games are you using? Because the sample size I gave in my other post was 44 games and he's played in 57 games total.
 
TheFridge said:
How does any of what I said prove he's underrated? No one claims Marner isn't a great player in the regular season. And on talent, he should be talked about like Kane or Kucherov but he's not and can you figure out why? Because talent isn't the only thing that matters in the NHL.

He's 17th overall in PpG in the playoffs over how many games as a sample size? What are we talking about here? What 31 games are you using? Because the sample size I gave in my other post was 44 games and he's played in 57 games total.
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apologies I wrote down 31 instead of 57. Was reading his even strength points when I wrote it.

He has a third of the sample size of Kane and Kuch.
 
BHawk21 said:
apologies I wrote down 31 instead of 57. Was reading his even strength points when I wrote it.

He has a third of the sample size of Kane and Kuch.
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And what's Marner's PpG in games with a chance to advance or to stave off elimination? Games when you need your 11M, 12M, 13M, 14M, 15M players to be those guys and really earn those contracts?
 
TheFridge said:
And what's Marner's PpG in games with a chance to advance or to stave off elimination? Games when you need your 11M, 12M, 13M, 14M, 15M players to be those guys and really earn those contracts?
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No clue but I watch him play hockey and can confidently say I want him on my team.
 
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TheFridge said:
And what's Marner's PpG in games with a chance to advance or to stave off elimination? Games when you need your 11M, 12M, 13M, 14M, 15M players to be those guys and really earn those contracts?
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best statmuse can tell me is marner is .40 ppg through 5 career game sevens. kane is .83 in 6. shockingly, if this website is to be believed, kucherov has scored 0 points in 6 career playoff game sevens.
 
BHawk21 said:
You say you want nothing to do with him. So yes hes underrated. My initial point. Thank you.
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Marner is an outstanding player in the regular season. Not underrated. Players aren't judged by what they do in the regular season through their prime.
 
TheFridge said:
And what's Marner's PpG in games with a chance to advance or to stave off elimination? Games when you need your 11M, 12M, 13M, 14M, 15M players to be those guys and really earn those contracts?
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And Marion Hossa had been on the losing side of two Stanley Cups right before joining the Hawks. He helped the Hawks win 3.

My point is, how Marner performed with the Leafs is not a precursor to how he would performed with, potentially, the Hawks.

I will worry about a players ability to perform in big games when the Hawks play in more big games.
 
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TheFridge said:
Marner is an outstanding player in the regular season. Not underrated. Players aren't judged by what they do in the regular season through their prime.
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The Blackhawks need outstanding players in the regular season. I am not going to write off Marner in the playoffs.

Hes had bad moments but also has 50 points in 57 games a +10 and thats with 7% shooting percentage compared to his average 13%. Again its the Toronto microscope.
 
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HeisenBaez said:
And Marion Hossa had been on the losing side of two Stanley Cups right before joining the Hawks. He helped the Hawks win 3.

My point is, how Marner performed with the Leafs is not a precursor to how he would performed with, potentially, the Hawks.

I will worry about a players ability to perform in big games when the Hawks play in more big games.
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If Marner wants to come to Chicago on a contract that pays him =<9% of the cap, I'd sign him no problem. That's what Hossa did. That means Marner would sign here, next year, on a cap of 92.4M for 8.58M per year. Do we think that's going to happen?

Part of why Hossa worked in CHI so well, was that the AAV was so low relative to his performance that it didn't matter that he wasn't a prolific scorer in the playoffs. He played great two-way hockey and chipped in. He wasn't the guy and he wasn't paid to be the guy relative to the cap. His contract enabled the Hawks to keep guys like Sharp and Hammer and fill out their depth. If Hossa had signed for 14-16% of the cap, like it would take to sign Marner, the Hawks wouldn't have been able to keep Sharp and then they most certainly don't win 3 Cups.
 
TheFridge said:
If Marner wants to come to Chicago on a contract that pays him =<9% of the cap, I'd sign him no problem. That's what Hossa did. That means Marner would sign here, next year, on a cap of 92.4M for 8.58M per year. Do we think that's going to happen?

Part of why Hossa worked in CHI so well, was that the AAV was so low relative to his performance that it didn't matter that he wasn't a prolific scorer in the playoffs. He played great two-way hockey and chipped in. He wasn't the guy and he wasn't paid to be the guy relative to the cap. His contract enabled the Hawks to keep guys like Sharp and Hammer and fill out their depth. If Hossa had signed for 14-16% of the cap, like it would take to sign Marner, the Hawks wouldn't have been able to keep Sharp and then they most certainly don't win 3 Cups.
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I get that. Right now Hawks can not be picky on FA. All we can help for is KD can limit the overpayment on a guy like Marner.
 
BHawk21 said:
The Blackhawks need outstanding players in the regular season. I am not going to write off Marner in the playoffs.

Hes had bad moments but also has 50 points in 57 games a +10 and thats with 7% shooting percentage compared to his average 13%. Again its the Toronto microscope.
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It's not Toronto microscope my guy. That's such a lazy narrative.

It's funny coming from a "watch the games" guy defending Marner because I don't know how you watch Toronto in the playoffs and don't pull out your hair watching him. I've watched every playoff series the last 5 years for them, rooting for them to win being in Ontario and having basically all my friend be Leafs fans and he frustrates me beyond belief and I'm not emotionally invested in that team. The amount of times he's not shot the puck, to make an extra pass to a Ron Hainsey or Simon Benoit or Michael Bunting when he's getting paid 12M per year is crazy. The amount of times he's bailed out of a forecheck or out of pressure. I honestly can't believe someone would watch him play in crunch time and say to themselves, that this is a guy I want on my team being paid Draisatil, MacKinnon, McDavid money.

Everything in this league is relative to the cap. If there was no cap and I could bring in other players to turn Marner into more of a complementary player, I'd do it. He has value. But not at the pricetag it'll take to get him. He hasn't been worth 12M per year in Toronto and he won't be worth 15-16M per year here.
 
HeisenBaez said:
I get that. Right now Hawks can not be picky on FA. All we can help for is KD can limit the overpayment on a guy like Marner.
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Sure they can. They can afford to be patient. They're not close to contending. Why would you sign Marner to a ridiculous contract that he won't be worth the minute he's signed it, when he's going to be on the wrong side of 30 when the Hawks are good again and that you'll have to pay to get rid in 4-5 years? Just so Bedard has someone to play with next year?

I'd much rather CHI use some draft assests/prospects to acquire a good young player from another team than invest 14/15/16M per year in a 28-year-old Marner (or Rantanen before he signed). Those moves just don't make sense relative to where the Hawks are. I get there's this perception that CHI really needs to get this rebuild accelerated but do things that make sense long-term.
 
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