Speculation: 2025-2026 Offseason Thread 2: it's not about the size but how you use it edition

[RussianGuyovich]

damn, a prospect that has flat lined and a mid-pick swap for a guy who should be able to push 30 goals this year. does JBB know you can do this?

 

[RussianGuyovich]

*JBB fumbling with the phone*

WAIT! i still haven't given you a second first round pick yet!

 

[Felonious Python]

*JBB fumbling with the phone*

WAIT! i still haven't given you a second first round pick yet!

Trade deadline prices are a lot higher.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Trade deadline prices are a lot higher.

off-season jokes are a lot more subtle

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Well damn man. If Kreider could be had for that little, I wish we'd have done it and made the Cirelli trade for another player

There is not retention on Kreider. That's a big contract for a guy who fell off that much and is playing the third line.

 

[RSchmitz PhD]

It's like when the neighbors put their badass 70" flat screen TV that used to be the shit 10 years ago, out by the road after the screen cracks.

 

[LightningStrikes]

It's like when the neighbors put their badass 70" flat screen TV that used to be the shit 10 years ago, out by the road after the screen cracks.

That’s still a big boi!

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

That’s still a big boi!

Based

 

[DFC]

damn, a prospect that has flat lined and a mid-pick swap for a guy who should be able to push 30 goals this year. does JBB know you can do this?

We know how to trade an entire draft class. For sure.

 

[DFC]

There is not retention on Kreider. That's a big contract for a guy who fell off that much and is playing the third line.

Hard to know what's left in his tank though.

The Mason Marchment rumors are picking up again too. Dallas has to move someone.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Hard to know what's left in his tank though.

The Mason Marchment rumors are picking up again too. Dallas has to move someone.

Depends on how desperate Dallas gets. They got to make space maybe we can capitalize but Dallas isn't taking any cap dumps back and we don't have anything to help them immediately. Cirelli for Marchment is more like us selling stupidly low on Cirelli.

 

[Sky04]

Depends on how desperate Dallas gets. They got to make space maybe we can capitalize but Dallas isn't taking any cap dumps back and we don't have anything to help them immediately. Cirelli for Marchment is more like us selling stupidly low on Cirelli.

Who's saying that? Cirelli for Marchment makes no sense, at least with the Tuch proposal you're getting a much better player back

 

[creg]

Depends on how desperate Dallas gets. They got to make space maybe we can capitalize but Dallas isn't taking any cap dumps back and we don't have anything to help them immediately. Cirelli for Marchment is more like us selling stupidly low on Cirelli.

I don't think Marchment would need to be had for anywhere near a roster player, especially with Dallas looking to shed cap. I honestly think a 2nd + a mid round pick would probably do it, I also think it would be smart to tie the deal to whatever you're doing with Howard as well, something like:

Tampa: Marchment, Pickering
Dallas: Tampa's 2nd and 4th
Pittsburgh: 50% Retention on Marchment + Howard

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I don't think Marchment would need to be had for anywhere near a roster player, especially with Dallas looking to shed cap. I honestly think a 2nd + a mid round pick would probably do it, I also think it would be smart to tie the deal to whatever you're doing with Howard as well, something like:

Tampa: Marchment, Pickering
Dallas: Tampa's 2nd and 4th
Pittsburgh: 50% Retention on Marchment + Howard

I don't see why Dallas or Pittsburgh would bother with that. Pittsburgh retaining on Marchment for just Howard? Pickering for Howard is pretty much square without a commitment from Howard to sign. Pittsburgh is taking on too much for too little. Dallas will want a roster player back. Getting cap space is fine, but they need Roster players because they only have 8 forwards signed and no one coming in.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Who's saying that? Cirelli for Marchment makes no sense, at least with the Tuch proposal you're getting a much better player back

Its the only trade for Marchment that would be remotely in the area Dallas even considers a trade with us. There really isn't any other pieces that we could move to get him. That's why I brought up Cirelli. Because when ever people talk about trades now its "MoVE CiRELli FoR X plAYER"

 

[creg]

I don't see why Dallas or Pittsburgh would bother with that. Pittsburgh retaining on Marchment for just Howard? Pickering for Howard is pretty much square without a commitment from Howard to sign. Pittsburgh is taking on too much for too little. Dallas will want a roster player back. Getting cap space is fine, but they need Roster players because they only have 8 forwards signed and no one coming in.

Why would Dallas want a roster player back? They have too many players to sign and not enough cap-space to do so, hence moving a player like Marchment who is more expendable and a year away from ufa.

I view Howard as a better prospect than Pickering which is why I think retaining $2m for a year isn't that crazy of an ask given that Pittsburgh has all 3 retention slots and are truly tanking, I suppose you could throw in a late pick but I don't think the retention would be that much of a +.

 

[DFC]

Depends on how desperate Dallas gets. They got to make space maybe we can capitalize but Dallas isn't taking any cap dumps back and we don't have anything to help them immediately. Cirelli for Marchment is more like us selling stupidly low on Cirelli.

They can't take that contract anyway. We would probably have to acquire futures to send to Dallas.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Why would Dallas want a roster player back? They have too many players to sign and not enough cap-space to do so, hence moving a player like Marchment who is more expendable and a year away from ufa.

I view Howard as a better prospect than Pickering which is why I think retaining $2m for a year isn't that crazy of an ask given that Pittsburgh has all 3 retention slots and are truly tanking, I suppose you could throw in a late pick but I don't think the retention would be that much of a +.

You remove 1 player (Marchment) they are down 7 roster forwards. Shedding salary is fine, but now you are garbage bin diving. Ideally they would shed most of Marchment's salary while getting a servicable player back is the ideal situation. Marchment is easier to move for them IMO.

With Howard, yeah I agree. Howard is probably the better prospect. The problem is Howard can go to UFA after next season. He's too much of a flight risk and people here have some real bloated view of his value. Without some contract or commitment that he will sign with a team, his value isn't that high at all.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

They can't take that contract anyway. We would probably have to acquire futures to send to Dallas.

They would take Cirelli for sure, its crazy to think they wouldn't. Cirelli would replace Granlund. Also gives them some cap certainty. 31 teams in the league would make room for Cirelli and his contract. But here in the Tampa forums, he's a pariah.

 

[Sky04]

You remove 1 player (Marchment) they are down 7 roster forwards. Shedding salary is fine, but now you are garbage bin diving. Ideally they would shed most of Marchment's salary while getting a servicable player back is the ideal situation. Marchment is easier to move for them IMO.

With Howard, yeah I agree. Howard is probably the better prospect. The problem is Howard can go to UFA after next season. He's too much of a flight risk and people here have some real bloated view of his value. Without some contract or commitment that he will sign with a team, his value isn't that high at all.

You talk like they have a choice, that's what every team has to do when you're against the cap. Did Tampa purposely dump their quality depth players to sign bottom of the barrel guys?

Nobody's giving them a quality roster player when they know he's a capdump.

 

[Sky04]

They would take Cirelli for sure, its crazy to think they wouldn't. Cirelli would replace Granlund. Also gives them some cap certainty. 31 teams in the league would make room for Cirelli and his contract. But here in the Tampa forums, he's a pariah.

They absolutely wouldn't, they can't afford to, it's just math.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

You talk like they have a choice, that's what every team has to do when you're against the cap. Did Tampa purposely dump their quality depth players to sign bottom of the barrel guys?

Nobody's giving them a quality roster player when they know he's a capdump.

Define quality? Why wouldn't a team like New Jersey do MacDermid for Marchment straight up? Dallas gets a servicable bottom 6 forward and New Jersey gets a top 6 winger. Dallas saves 3.35m against the cap.

 

[Crunchrulz]

I think we got away from the formula. What was the purpose of having Girgs? He had never played in the NHL playoffs, but he was supposed to excel.

At cardio, maybe.

What was good about Pat Maroon was that he was a depth guy that had just won the cup, and given his relationship with Coop, he was listened to. The guys we kept are the ones at the top of the lineup. They're supposed to show the newer guys how to win, but they're not naturally geared towards that type of hockey. We apparently have to keep bringing everyone back because no one we have seems to be carrying the playoff identity we need.

Rather than bring players back, isn't it time to do what others have done and adapt to the changing environment?

Cooper's coaching ability is only as good as the players he is given to work with. With the Cap Restrictions, there is quite a gap between skill levels now, as there has been for a few seasons. The players that led the team to the back-to-back have been given their well-deserved contracts, it is the movement clauses in those contracts that is hurting JBB's ability to make deals now.

As others have noted, if we do not have the ability to move contracts for players with value for other teams, then we are going to have to deal with the fact that, for the most part, what we have is what we have and fill in the support pieces as we can. If that means brining in some veteran free agent AHL players from other organizations on a one-year league minimum deal to see if playing for a new organization motivates them to take the next step, so be it. There has to be players out there who are older and hungry enough to understand the advantages of playing in Tampa Bay rather than the long bus trips of the AHL. Between those players and the handful or so of younger players available in Syracuse, that will have to be what we have for support staff until some of the player friendly contracts are up.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

They absolutely wouldn't, they can't afford to, it's just math.

They would, they would move Robertson for sure as a part of it, but they would find the room. Every single team would make room for Cirelli, Dallas is making room to sign an older Granlund, Benn? Yeah, Cirelli solves a bunch of their problems.

 

[DFC]

They would take Cirelli for sure, its crazy to think they wouldn't. Cirelli would replace Granlund. Also gives them some cap certainty. 31 teams in the league would make room for Cirelli and his contract. But here in the Tampa forums, he's a pariah.

That's not what I mean. Why would they move a 4.5m contract and take a 6, if they are so strapped for cap that they need to move a good player?