OT: 2024 Washington Commanders off-season thread: change we can believe in!

[Bananas]

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And your QB would be whom? We had Chris Samuel and then Trent and still sucked the big one if you happened to forget.

We needed a QB in the worst possible way. My big fear is they hit on Daniels and are busy ruing his career. They cannot do a repeat of game one again for the entire year. He must be benched if he’s going to play hero ball, simple as that.

 

[g00n]

It is and you know it. As soon as ‘cops killing unarmed BLACK people’ comes up it becomes about politics. And then someone brings up actual data, Roland Fryer’s analysis, and around and around we go.

It always works out the same way around here but the powers that be rarely decide to nip it in the bud when it starts. Who could possibly have a different opinion than you do about something like this? It’s inconceivable I’m sure…

This is your baggage not mine. You're the one making it political.

And as far as "it always works out the same way", what usually happens is someone like you who is politically offended and hypersensitive starts whining about politics and the mods have to kill a topic to shut you up. So congratulations on getting your way in advance.

 

[hotpaws]

And your QB would be whom? We had Chris Samuel and then Trent and still sucked the big one if you happened to forget.

We needed a QB in the worst possible way. My big fear is they hit on Daniels and are busy ruing his career. They cannot do a repeat of game one again for the entire year. He must be benched if he’s going to play hero ball, simple as that.

the players around JD had nothing to do with him playing ''hero ball'' in his game , it's in his nature to play that way and hopefully he gets it coached out of him or he's going to huge hits and then learn

 

[Jags]

the players around JD had nothing to do with him playing ''hero ball'' in his game , it's in his nature to play that way and hopefully he gets it coached out of him or he's going to huge hits and then learn

There were little bits of hero ball here and there, but he was mostly executing the gameplan. Let's not overstate things. He needs to get down better. So if it's head-first, then he needs to get down earlier so that he's not just lowering his head directly into natural tackling positions, as we saw more than once Sunday, including the first time he lost his helmet.

And I think a big component of this is also that he's leaning into his running tendencies too hard because he's showing some reluctance to pulling the trigger. Once he ups his confidence in that department he'll be running less. And once we have an O-line that can actually pass protect, he'll run even less.

He'll always be a very mobile dude, but that'll be okay once they work the kinks out. Gonna take time.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

the players around JD had nothing to do with him playing ''hero ball'' in his game , it's in his nature to play that way and hopefully he gets it coached out of him or he's going to huge hits and then learn

Guys not able to get open, is a problem with his supporting cast….

 

[Beef Invictus]

The point I've been making is that without massive improvement to our offensive line, the likelihood of any quarterback reaching their ceiling greatly diminishes. It's more likely that a rookie quarterback's development will be hampered with this offensive line, or their career will be plagued with injuries if it doesn't end prematurely.

So, I mean, sure... if we want to completely ignore the premise of my argument and assume that by some miracle a rookie QB will overcome our offensive line and emerge as an all time great, I'll take the miracle.

Everything I know about football says that's a fantasy, though. More than happy to be proven wrong, of course. I'm rooting for JD as hard as anyone.

Eh, it's much easier to solve an OL than it is to solve QB. And if you solve the QB position, that does much to solve the OL as well. Especially if coaches are competent about it.

JD leading the week at getting the ball out fastest is encouraging on that front. How often was Howell's closest supposed checkdown still getting upfield as the walls collapsed on him? I love that the option is there and I love that JD took it. Ekeler can have great utility in that role.

 

[hotpaws]

Guys not able to get open, is a problem with his supporting cast….

this isn't LSU where his stud receivers were consistently wide wide open , this is the NFL where if you have a step or even good position on a DB your considered open , he simply wouldn't pull the trigger or missed the target like when he overthrew TM

 

[Beef Invictus]

this isn't LSU where his stud receivers were consistently wide wide open , this is the NFL where if you have a step or even good position on a DB your considered open , he simply wouldn't pull the trigger or missed the target like when he overthrew TM

Sounds exactly like almost every QB coming out of college in their first games

 

[bacchist]

Eh, it's much easier to solve an OL than it is to solve QB. And if you solve the QB position, that does much to solve the OL as well. Especially if coaches are competent about it.

JD leading the week at getting the ball out fastest is encouraging on that front. How often was Howell's closest supposed checkdown still getting upfield as the walls collapsed on him? I love that the option is there and I love that JD took it. Ekeler can have great utility in that role.

We can probably just go back and forth endlessly because we just have different ways of looking at team building. You're right that it's easier to solve the OL problem that the QB problem. But it's way easier to solve the QB problem if you have an OL that can protect them. And a great QB can make it easier on the OL, but that is often a product of experience. You need to give a rookie QB time to develop the ability to go through progressions and make good decisions. Either way you need to solve both problems, but start with the OL and your chances of success improve.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

this isn't LSU where his stud receivers were consistently wide wide open , this is the NFL where if you have a step or even good position on a DB your considered open , he simply wouldn't pull the trigger or missed the target like when he overthrew TM

I’ve seen multiple analysts saying guys weren’t getting open. It’s a thing….


Haven’t seen one criticizing him for being gun shy.

 

[hotpaws]

Sounds exactly like almost every QB coming out of college in their first games

I agree and that's why i'm not going to shit on JD's teammates to make his light shine brighter .

he's a rookie who's just played his first game , the way some are posting it seems they believe he's already a future HOF'er who's team is holding him back

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

We can probably just go back and forth endlessly because we just have different ways of looking at team building. You're right that it's easier to solve the OL problem that the QB problem. But it's way easier to solve the QB problem if you have an OL that can protect them. And a great QB can make it easier on the OL, but that is often a product of experience. You need to give a rookie QB time to develop the ability to go through progressions and make good decisions. Either way you need to solve both problems, but start with the OL and your chances of success improve.

Yeah I totally disagree….got to get a legit longterm starter first because they are rare and it’s hard to get into position to draft a great one, and even harder to pick the right one out of the lot.

I agree and that's why i'm not going to shit on JD's teammates to make his light shine brighter .

he's a rookie who's just played his first game , the way some are posting it seems they believe he's already a future HOF'er who's team is holding him back

Not even close….

 

[Beef Invictus]

We can probably just go back and forth endlessly because we just have different ways of looking at team building. You're right that it's easier to solve the OL problem that the QB problem. But it's way easier to solve the QB problem if you have an OL that can protect them. And a great QB can make it easier on the OL, but that is often a product of experience. You need to give a rookie QB time to develop the ability to go through progressions and make good decisions. Either way you need to solve both problems, but start with the OL and your chances of success improve.

I mean, at the end of the day you can do both ways. The common denominator is hulking, engorged competence in drafting/development/acquisition/usage

 

[hotpaws]

Not even close….

Really ?

You're basically saying JD made all the right decisions and all the right plays but the team let him down .

 

[Jags]

I’ve seen multiple analysts saying guys weren’t getting open. It’s a thing….


Haven’t seen one criticizing him for being gun shy.

Between the guys they lost prior to the game and the guys they lost during the game, the hot dog guy was playing CB for Tampa in the second half. There were certainly times he could have thrown and didn't. And if our receivers and coaches couldn't leverage an advantage that stark at all, then we're well and truly f***ed.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Really ?

You're basically saying JD made all the right decisions and all the right plays but the team let him down .

No, I said multiple analysts I’ve seen on TV commented how his guys had trouble getting open. The rest you made up lol…

Of course he made mistakes, that’s silly.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

 

[ynotcaps]

In a QB-driven league when you don't have a good QB you need to be laser-focused on acquiring a good QB above anything else. Those taken in the top 2, let alone the first round, are not guaranteed to succeed. They have a much higher hit rate though then every other method whether it be FA (Kirk reunion?), trade (Fields? Pickett?), or a later round pick (stick with Howell?).

We already made this mistake once taking Young over Herbert and Tua. In that case at least Young was widely considered one of the best drafted prospects of not just his class but the entire decade and Herbert and Tua were worse prospects coming out of college than JD and Maye.

Trading down and taking Alt could have been a "tactical" win depending on what the return looked like but would've been a massive strategic mistake. Taking him at 2 would've been both and a legit fireable offense

Exactly.

As a man of a certain generation, here are the franchise LTs we've fielded:
Joe Jacoby
Jim Lachey
Chris Samuels
Trent Williams

Here are the franchise QBs we've fielded:

When there's a QB worth the pick you have, and you haven't had a franchise QB in 50 years, you spend the pick on the QB.

 

[bacchist]

Exactly.

As a man of a certain generation, here are the franchise LTs we've fielded:
Joe Jacoby
Jim Lachey
Chris Samuels
Trent Williams

Here are the franchise QBs we've fielded:

When there's a QB worth the pick you have, and you haven't had a franchise QB in 50 years, you spend the pick on the QB.

Kirk Cousins. The fact that we fumbled him doesn't mean he wasn't a legit franchise QB.

 

[ynotcaps]

this isn't LSU where his stud receivers were consistently wide wide open , this is the NFL where if you have a step or even good position on a DB your considered open , he simply wouldn't pull the trigger or missed the target like when he overthrew TM

Yeah, this was Washington, where his OL gave him less time to decide on what to do with the ball than any other QB in the NFL.

Or should I say, "this is the NFL, where a QB should expect to have at least 2.5 seconds to decide disposition of the play." But that doesn't make it sound like JD is a problem, so you might not agree.

Kirk Cousins. The fact that we fumbled him doesn't mean he wasn't a legit franchise QB.

Agree to disagree. He's been paid like a franchise QB, but a "franchise QB" should win divisions, and at least get to a SB (win a conference at least once). Kirk is a good QB, but 2 teams have let him leave in his prime (or close thereto.)

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah, this was Washington, where his OL gave him less time to decide on what to do with the ball than any other QB in the NFL.

Or should I say, "this is the NFL, where a QB should expect to have at least 2.5 seconds to decide disposition of the play." But that doesn't make it sound like JD is a problem, so you might not agree.

this is funny coming from you since all i heard you saying leading up to the draft was the team these qb prospects played on in college had no impact on their performance

 

[EroCaps]

Watching the tape on this one… Daniels shows more promise than red flags. The Bucs are probably division winners again He’s not going to miss dump offs like that for long. He avoided like 5 sacks on scrambles which actually helped him not take hits…

But they’ve got to be smarter about how they use him and Kingsbury is in the sights.

I expect he’ll show out soon.

The defense, on the other hand, blows.

This is a legit rebuild.

 

[g00n]

Watching the tape on this one… Daniels shows more promise than red flags. The Bucs are probably division winners again He’s not going to miss dump offs like that for long. He avoided like 5 sacks on scrambles which actually helped him not take hits…

But they’ve got to be smarter about how they use him and Kingsbury is in the sights.

I expect he’ll show out soon.

The defense, on the other hand, blows.

This is a legit rebuild.

 

[ynotcaps]

this is funny coming from you since all i heard you saying leading up to the draft was the team these qb prospects played on in college had no impact on their performance

Find the quote where I said that. (You won't.) I said he played with great talent but unlike your and others' argument, it wasn't just that they made him better, he made them better, too.

But back to the subject: how did JD's performance compare to the other QBs who weren't under the gun within 2 seconds of the snap?

 

[Kazer]

Yeah, this was Washington, where his OL gave him less time to decide on what to do with the ball than any other QB in the NFL.

Or should I say, "this is the NFL, where a QB should expect to have at least 2.5 seconds to decide disposition of the play." But that doesn't make it sound like JD is a problem, so you might not agree.


Agree to disagree. He's been paid like a franchise QB, but a "franchise QB" should win divisions, and at least get to a SB (win a conference at least once). Kirk is a good QB, but 2 teams have let him leave in his prime (or close thereto.)

Think that ultimately depends on how you define a Franchise QB. To me, a Franchise QB is a guy who is good enough to be your consistent starter for an extended period of time (and not constantly looking for the next upgrade). Cousins has met that bar. From 2015 - 2023, over nine seasons, Cousins has had a traditional passer rating above 92, and his rating has been above 100 five of those nine seasons.

It's kind of like a star player versus a superstar player in the NFL. Cousins has pretty clearly been in the star category. I agree that he has not been a 'superstar' though he has been on the cusp a few times.

And I would argue that Cousins has been let go in his prime once. Allowing Cousins to walk at age 35, while recovering from a severe injury, is not letting a guy go in his prime.