Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v4 |Mon, Jun 17 | vs BOS | 7pm ET/4pm PT | Pivetta vs Kikuchi

[LaP]

After this game, Clement has a 100 wRC. I am not sure if Jiminez or Martinez could do that.

Maybe not. But that's the point you got to know before it's too late. Jays will have the hard decision to make to either reset or extend Bo and Vlad to big contracts. I feel like you got to know what you have in AAA before making that decision.

 

[Eyedea]

Lol. Not even close.

Let’s be honest, you never will lol.

 

[Discoverer]

Maybe not. But that's the point you got to know before it's too late. Jays will have the hard decision to make to either reset or extend Bo and Vlad to big contracts. I feel like you got to know what you have in AAA before making that decision.

Clement is older, but I think he's in the same boat where you have to give him a chance to see what he's capable of. Even if just in a part-time role, he has a really interesting and valuable skillset (strong defender, versatile, excellent baserunning, destroys lefties). He's an ideal utility guy.

 

[canucksfan]

Maybe not. But that's the point you got to know before it's too late. Jays will have the hard decision to make to either reset or extend Bo and Vlad to big contracts. I feel like you got to know what you have in AAA before making that decision.

If the team is out of the playoff spot I agree. However, right now the team is fighting for a playoff spot so they need to put in their best lineup I don't think those two would be better than Clement.

Clement also needs to be given a look.

 

[cyris]

Let’s be honest, you never will lol.

I guess you are right and some people will never be happy with the trade but Guriel and Moreno have a combined WAR of 1 this season and Varsho was sitting at 2.4 coming into the game.

It’s fair to have some worry about Moreno’s potential but there is absolutely no doubt who has been the best player this season.

 

[Eyedea]

I guess you are right and some people will never be happy with the trade but Guriel and Moreno have a combined WAR of 1 this season and Varsho was sitting at 2.4 coming into the game.

It’s fair to have some worry about Moreno’s potential but there is absolutely no doubt who has been the best player this season.

I agree, from a value perspective it’s a no brainer this year. They just consolidated two players and have one that is worth more than them combined. Anyone thinking the Jays would be better off this year reversing the trade is out to lunch.

Whether it pans out over time is up for debate. But right now those same red flags we saw with Moreno still remain prominent.

 

[mikeyz]

Let’s be honest, you never will lol.

Lol. I wouldn’t say “never” but, he has a shit ton to prove yet.


It is going to take ALOT more than a grand slam to impress me to the point where I no longer think we got completely fleeced in that trade.

 

[LaP]

I agree, from a value perspective it’s a no brainer this year. They just consolidated two players and have one that is worth more than them combined. Anyone thinking the Jays would be better off this year reversing the trade is out to lunch.

Whether it pans out over time is up for debate. But right now those same red flags we saw with Moreno still remain prominent.

Jays got the same problem as last year though and that was my main problem with this trade. Varsho makes KK redundant and Jays had and still have to add bats. Spending money on KK was and still is stupid. In hindsight i must admit part of the criticism of that trade should have been targeted toward signing KK instead.

But the Jays got the same problem as last year as they invest money on KK (and previously Biggio too) for no reason and if he plays most nights that leaves one less spot to improve the offence, It looks like Atkins and his goons are finally starting to realize that though. I've said it many times last year and this year i immensely prefer Varsho as a center field and i have far less problem with the trade when he plays there.

 

[Discoverer]

I agree, from a value perspective it’s a no brainer this year. They just consolidated two players and have one that is worth more than them combined. Anyone thinking the Jays would be better off this year reversing the trade is out to lunch.

Whether it pans out over time is up for debate. But right now those same red flags we saw with Moreno still remain prominent.

And if Moreno were on the Jays he wouldn't be getting near the playing time he gets now since Jansen is way better and Moreno hasn't hit nearly well enough to warrant time at DH.

Like you said, what he eventually turns into could make it look bad for the Jays, but so far it's a huge win.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Pen is thinning out. We going Green or Pearson to close?

Little looked good today. I see Garcia hitting the IL.

 

[MK78]

And if Moreno were on the Jays he wouldn't be getting near the playing time he gets now since Jansen is way better and Moreno hasn't hit nearly well enough to warrant time at DH.

They would have traded Kirk then.

IMO they should have traded him after he went to the All Star game. it's been a downhill spiral since.

 

[Eyedea]

They would have traded Kirk then.

IMO they should have traded him after he went to the All Star game. it's been a downhill spiral since.

Kirk’s been a great backup though and wouldn’t have brought back a player of Varsho’s calibre like Moreno did.

It sucks to see Kirk struggle offensively but honestly, he’s “close” and has been incredibly unlucky based off his metrics. Plus his defence has been better than Moreno’s.

 

[Discoverer]

They would have traded Kirk then.

IMO they should have traded him after he went to the All Star game. it's been a downhill spiral since.

That's my point. He would replace Kirk as the backup catcher (where he would be roughly equal in terms of performance) and you would switch Varsho for whoever you get for Kirk, which would almost certainly be a significant dropoff.

 

[Dr Pepper]

That's my point. He would replace Kirk as the backup catcher (where he would be roughly equal in terms of performance) and you would switch Varsho for whoever you get for Kirk, which would almost certainly be a significant dropoff.

Didn't Varsho come up as a catcher? Thought he had that dual position eligibility, yet Toronto's never thrown him behind the plate. Too valuable in the field I guess, but if they could find a taker for Kirk why WOULDN'T they send him packing and roll with Jansen/Varsho.

 

[Discoverer]

Didn't Varsho come up as a catcher? Thought he had that dual position eligibility, yet Toronto's never thrown him behind the plate. Too valuable in the field I guess, but if they could find a taker for Kirk why WOULDN'T they send him packing and roll with Jansen/Varsho.

When Varsho caught, he was pretty bad. Most of his value comes from being the best OF defender in the game, so you don't want to move him from there to a place where he isn't good. The catcher part was just a bonus that he could be a good emergency/third catcher.

Meanwhile, Kirk is one of the best defensive catchers in the game, his bat seems to be coming back around, and he's only 25. Unless the return is something big, they're not moving him (and if they did they still wouldn't move Varsho back behind the plate at all).

 

[GoonieFace]

Moreno is still not owned in my 16 team keeper league…that is all

 

[MS]

When Varsho caught, he was pretty bad. Most of his value comes from being the best OF defender in the game, so you don't want to move him from there to a place where he isn't good. The catcher part was just a bonus that he could be a good emergency/third catcher.

Meanwhile, Kirk is one of the best defensive catchers in the game, his bat seems to be coming back around, and he's only 25. Unless the return is something big, they're not moving him (and if they did they still wouldn't move Varsho back behind the plate at all).

Given that he's a natural catcher who played that position full-time until he reached MLB and given his absolutely insane grasp of fundamentals when doing anything else on a baseball diamond it's actually kind of surprising he wasn't an elite defensive catcher/game-caller.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Tanner Houck, the Boston starter on Wednesday, has a 2.08 ERA. In 91 IP? Holy Christ. I had to do a double take when I saw that. I thought maybe he was coming off an injury or something, but I didn’t know he was having that kind of impressive season. I guess we better win the 1st two games here.

 

[MS]

Tanner Houck, the Boston starter on Wednesday, has a 2.08 ERA. In 91 IP? Holy Christ. I had to do a double take when I saw that. I thought maybe he was coming off an injury or something, but I didn’t know he was having that kind of impressive season. I guess we better win the 1st two games here.

There are some weird pitchers having crazy years this year.

Of the top 10 guys for bWAR in the AL, only Jack Flaherty (9th) has had any sort of Cy Young vote at any point in their career previous to this year. Only Sale and Glasnow (near the bottom of the top-10) have had any Cy Young votes in the NL.

AL top 10 in bWAR :

1. Tariq Skubal (good pitcher, previous high WAR of 2.0 though)
2. Tyler Anderson (age 34, had an ERA+ over 100 once since 2018)
3. Erick Fedde (31 years old with a negative career WAR who was in Korea last year)
4. Seth Lugo (age 34 journeyman, mostly a reliever through his career)
5. Tanner Houck
6. Garrett Crochet (big talent, but 0 MLB starts before this season)
7. Luis Gil (7 career starts before this year, coming off TJS)
8. Ronel Blanco (30 years old, career WAR of 0.0 heading into this season)
9. Cole Ragans (spare part in Texas bullpen at this time last year)
10. Jack Flaherty (had a good year in 2018, awful for 4 years since)

These are the best pitchers in the AL and has a casual fan ever heard of any of them?

Like, 'relievers are voodoo' should really be expanded to 'all pitchers are voodoo'. The days of the starting pitcher who excels for 10 years are basically over save for a small handful of guys and the best starting pitchers fluctuate wildly year over year as guys go into cycles of TJS.

 

[phillipmike]

Tanner Houck, the Boston starter on Wednesday, has a 2.08 ERA. In 91 IP? Holy Christ. I had to do a double take when I saw that. I thought maybe he was coming off an injury or something, but I didn’t know he was having that kind of impressive season. I guess we better win the 1st two games here.

Fun fact, he is a former Jays draft pick who didnt sign.

 

[canucksfan]

So no Horwitz or Barger against a righty. Schneider is a moron

 

[PanniniClaus]

So no Horwitz or Barger against a righty. Schneider is a moron

The supercomputer was working overtime today.

 

[canucksfan]

The supercomputer was working overtime today.

Any computer would say to sit Springer and Turner. It's Schneider and his love affair with his vets.

 

[The don godfather]

What a majestic shot by o Neill.

 

[red devil]

Back to back homeruns for the Sox