Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v3 | Thu, May 23 | @ Det | 6:30pm ET/3:30pm PT | Gausman vs Flaherty

[canucksfan]

I didn't watch the game. However, checking the box score why is Jansen batting 6th? He's the best hitter this year and probably last year as well.

This isn't a small sample size. It goes back to last year. IMO the talent on the team easily surpasses what the output is. Whatever they are telling the top hitters isn't working. Bo's talent isn't at a 64 wRC and Vladdy and Springer are below where they should be.

Varsho and Jansen are good examples. As already mentioned Jansen went back to being a pull hitter. Varsho struggled last year. They tried to get him to use more of the ballpark and not pull the ball as much. I think he went f*** that. This year he is much better and pulling the ball.

I think we would see a big improvement if the team brought in proper hitting coaches.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Gausman, Berrios, Manoah, Kikuchi, Romano, Garcia, Bichette, Varsho, Kirk, Jansen, Vlad.

The Jays have 10+ major assets to get back top dollar if we go full nuclear on a rebuild. I'd do it. Because even if Springer, Vlad, and Bichette start performing and they have .780-.790 ops type seasons, I still don't have faith they can perform in the playoffs. If the actual core isn't good, all of the supporting pieces won't make a difference. May as well rebuild.

The only thing worse then not making the playoffs is winning 83-84 games, missing the playoffs and not getting back top assets at the deadline.

That would suck because we were supposed to be into the championship window right now. Going back to the 2017-2019 era would be painful.

 

[MikeK]

Gausman, Berrios, Manoah, Kikuchi, Romano, Garcia, Bichette, Varsho, Kirk, Jansen, Vlad.

The Jays have 10+ major assets to get back top dollar if we go full nuclear on a rebuild. I'd do it. Because even if Springer, Vlad, and Bichette start performing and they have .780-.790 ops type seasons, I still don't have faith they can perform in the playoffs. If the actual core isn't good, all of the supporting pieces won't make a difference. May as well rebuild.

This team isn't making the playoffs even if those players you mentioned had a major turn around. I look around the Division and the AL as a whole and there is no chance this Jays team can compete with the true contenders. We are in big trouble.

I think it's seriously time to start thinking about moving Vlad before his free agency years are up for sale. He is not worth the massive contract he's going to get. I would also start trying to move some of the older vets. This team is nowhere close to competing.

 

[Suntouchable13]

This team isn't making the playoffs even if those players you mentioned had a major turn around. I look around the Division and the AL as a whole and there is no chance this Jays team can compete with the true contenders. We are in big trouble.

I think it's seriously time to start thinking about moving Vlad before his free agency years are up for sale. He is not worth the massive contract he's going to get. I would also start trying to move some of the older vets. This team is nowhere close to competing.

Then it's not Atkins who should be doing that. He already bungled this rebuild. Starting all over would suck major ass, though. You don't let Atkins be in charge of this potential rebuild.

 

[Puckstuff]

That would suck because we were supposed to be into the championship window right now. Going back to the 2017-2019 era would be painful.

The 2021 Blue Jays that won 91 games was the peak for this group imo. They had a +183 run differential and Ironically it was the year they didn't make the playoffs. If that team with Semien and Teoscar made the playoffs, I think they could have won the World Series. They were insanely hot to the end year. Then we let Semien walk, and then Teo and Gurriel were traded the year after. We just haven't been able to replace the offence while also seeing so many players regress.

 

[MK78]

That would suck because we were supposed to be into the championship window right now. Going back to the 2017-2019 era would be painful.

Yeah, and there is no promising players like Bo & Vladdy were then in the pipeline. At least there was hope back then.

Remind anyone of another Toronto team? I feel like a broken record LOL.

 

[MK78]

The 2021 Blue Jays that won 91 games was the peak for this group imo. They had a +183 run differential and Ironically it was the year they didn't make the playoffs. If that team with Semien and Teoscar made the playoffs, I think they could have won the World Series. They were insanely hot to the end year. Then we let Semien walk, and then Teo and Gurriel were traded the year after. We just haven't been able to replace the offence while also seeing so many players regress.

Yeah they had horrible pitching then, horrible bullpen.

Right now they already have -31 run diff. if that continues it could be in the ballpark of -183 lol.

 

[Puckstuff]

Yeah, and there is no promising players like Bo & Vladdy were then in the pipeline. At least there was hope back then.

Remind anyone of another Toronto team? I feel like a broken record LOL.

I feel like this rebuild could be much different then the last one. Last time around the Jays waited to long to move Donaldson and they didn't have that many prime assets because guys were at the end of there career. This time around we have guys who are on team friendly contracts and we have a bunch of high valued assets i.e Varsho, Bichette, Berrios, Gasuamn etc. If they play this smart, they could actually build a top 3 farm system within 1-2 years.

 

[MK78]

I feel like this rebuild could be much different then the last one. Last time around the Jays waited to long to move Donaldson and they didn't have that many prime assets because guys were at the end of there career. This time around we have guys who are on team friendly contracts and we have a bunch of high valued assets i.e Varsho, Bichette, Berrios, Gasuamn etc. If they play this smart, they could actually build a top 3 farm system within 1-2 years.

They have to leave some pitching, just cant unload everyone. Berrios is a keeper as he's much younger than the other vet pitchers, and has been extremely durable in his career. He doesnt chase velocity and he's super healthy.

I just dont see the ownership ready to tank for a few years after they just blew a bunch of money on the dome refresh. if people stop coming it will be bad, especially that they raised the tickets significantly over the past couple years and you know they're not coming down. nobody's gonna wanna pay money for a brutal team. at least in the past the tickets were cheap.

 

[Cloned]

Baltimore started rebuilding earlier and stopped rebuilding a couple years after the Jays. They SHOULD be miles ahead of everyone given how dogshit they were for so long.

KC has been pretty good for 31 games. They also lost 96 last year. Let's maybe hold off on them.

Cleveland never actually rebuilt. They're just a weird team in a shit division.


This stuff is still pretty dumb. It was obvious when Montoyo got fired and the lineup construction and bullpen approach changed immediately that the manager does in fact have a ton of input into those decisions.

Seems like excuses tbh.

Jays should be a lot better with this payroll and the assets Atkins has had.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

This a good team, guys. They just don't play well...consistently, if at all.

 

[Suntouchable13]

The 2021 Blue Jays that won 91 games was the peak for this group imo. They had a +183 run differential and Ironically it was the year they didn't make the playoffs. If that team with Semien and Teoscar made the playoffs, I think they could have won the World Series. They were insanely hot to the end year. Then we let Semien walk, and then Teo and Gurriel were traded the year after. We just haven't been able to replace the offence while also seeing so many players regress.

It's too bad they couldn't get 2023 pitching with that 2021 offence. This current regime just doesn't seem to get everything clicking together.

 

[MikeK]

I just dont see the ownership ready to tank for a few years after they just blew a bunch of money on the dome refresh. if people stop coming it will be bad, especially that they raised the tickets significantly over the past couple years and you know they're not coming down. nobody's gonna wanna pay money for a brutal team. at least in the past the tickets were cheap.

Even though I've been very outspoken about my desire to trade Vlad, I know it will never happen. After the massive reno's to the dome and all the money ownership has put into the team I know there is no way they would accept any such move or rebuild. They are going to want to market this team hard over the next several years. I fully expect this team to go down in flames and not capitalize on any of it's assets. I really don't feel good about the next few years.

 

[dredeye]

That would suck because we were supposed to be into the championship window right now. Going back to the 2017-2019 era would be painful.

Yea the door just never opened. Vladdy is a shell of what he was expected to be. Bo for no reason has forgotten how to hit. Springer is going to be a dead weight contract for the remainder of his term. They built a great pitching staff but with zero offence. It’s really too bad. I really thought Shapiro and Atkins coming to a team that was willing to spend would really turn the page for the jays but it’s been a miserable failure of unwatchable baseball. Back to back rookie managers for a young team that needed guidance. Obvious meddling from management for how games should be played. No point in watching until a new group is in place. Unless you like watching bad baseball. I really want a new gm in place before the deadline because I don’t trust Atkins to acquire the right pieces. Hopefully, we can cash in on some of the arms. Hopefully pay someone to take Springer

 

[Puckstuff]

They have to leave some pitching, just cant unload everyone. Berrios is a keeper as he's much younger than the other vet pitchers, and has been extremely durable in his career. He doesnt chase velocity and he's super healthy.

I just dont see the ownership ready to tank for a few years after they just blew a bunch of money on the dome refresh. if people stop coming it will be bad, especially that they raised the tickets significantly over the past couple years and you know they're not coming down. nobody's gonna wanna pay money for a brutal team. at least in the past the tickets were cheap.

Berrios is 30. If you want to keep Berrios, that sounds more like a retool rather then a full rebuild. That might be ok, but either they find a way to replace the top of the batting order and retool with guys that can hit ASAP or they need to blow it up completely and get blue chip prospects in return to start over. I'm a bit conflicted on which is the best route to go. I think it depends on the practicality of finding 2-3 good hitters. I can understand both rebuilding and retooling. The worst approach is cruising along to 82-85 wins and doing nothing.

 

[Eyedea]

The way Berrios is trending, he will probably opt out after 2025 for a new contract.

 

[WeThreeKings]

They did nothing and are all out of ideas. So glad I've decided to not watch this team.

 

[Nineteen67]

How many more stinkers before Schneider is let go?

 

[Dr Pepper]

How many more stinkers before Schneider is let go?

Right now they're third last in all of MLB, in runs per game. Only Oakland and the Chi-sox are worse.

Atkins probably waiting until they really hit rock bottom.

 

[canucksfan]

How many more stinkers before Schneider is let go?

It's Atkins that needs to go. A new GM can then decide what to do with the coaching staff.

 

[Nineteen67]

It's Atkins that needs to go. A new GM can then decide what to do with the coaching staff.

That’s ideal.

 

[Eyedea]

Aside from the offence obviously being bad, the relief pitching (sans Yimi) has been disastrous too. Swanson and Mayza need to get their heads out of their asses.

 

[tmlfan98]

Yeah the pitching staff has been pretty bad too so far. Their SP ranks 11th in the AL so far in fWAR, bullpen 2nd lowest fWAR in the AL only higher than the Rays (lol). Compared to last season the Jays starters and bullpen were both ranked 4th best in the AL by fWAR.

On the position player side the Jays rank 7th in the AL in fWAR so far compared to 4th last season. oWAR/dWAR split is 10th/1st. Compared to last season the Jays split was 7th/2nd.

So the team sacrificed even more offence at the expense of making sure they are the best defensive team in the AL, and the pitching has fallen off big time so far, especially the pen.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yeah the pitching staff has been pretty bad too so far. Their SP ranks 11th in the AL so far in fWAR, bullpen 2nd lowest fWAR in the AL only higher than the Rays (lol). Compared to last season the Jays starters and bullpen were both ranked 4th best in the AL by fWAR.

On the position player side the Jays rank 7th in the AL in fWAR so far compared to 4th last season. oWAR/dWAR split is 10th/1st. Compared to last season the Jays split was 7th/2nd.

So the team sacrificed even more offence at the expense of making sure they are the best defensive team in the AL, and the pitching has fallen off big time so far, especially the pen.

Berrios has the best ERA in MLB, Kikuchi has been great, and Gausman is rounding into form. It’s Bassitt and the 5th spot that are the sore sports so far.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

What's worse is the regression monster is coming hard for Berrios. Very low babip, very high lob%, getting hit hard, Ks are way down, swstrike% way down...

I'm sure the offense will bail him out when the time comes