2024 Training Camp Roster & Schedule

[heyfolks]

I mean why would a coaching staff ever utilize pre-season practice to try things. That just seems silly...

We know most of these combinations will be mediocre. But we don't know if these other combinations will be mediocre. Lets stick with what we know!

My sarcasm meter is busted, so not sure where to take this one. That won't stop me, just clarifying I am ore confused than usual. The lines:


DeBrincat-Larkin-Raymond
Tarasenko-Compher-Kane
Rasmussen-Copp-Fischer
Veleno/Watson-Motte-Berggren
Chiarot-Seider
Edvinsson-Petry
Maatta-Gustafsson
Johansson

PREFACE: A whole group of players were not available today.

The reality is just that. This is the best roster and the likely combinations. I would not call the first two lines mediocre. 3 and 4 are, well, what you get on a team in the middle of a rebuild. I do not agree with the D pairings, but that does seem to be the general consensus of how they will roll out. I would not call any pairing with Mo or Simon mediocre. What I will say is they are letting good be the enemy of great by not putting them together.

Without any other options, I do agree a few changes should be made. Today, the only change is one we have been discussing, flipping the spot of Simon and Chiarot.

The only hope for a better forward combination hinges on pushing Compher and Copp down to 3 and 4 respectfully. Nate the Great was not available to do that today.

3rd and 4th line - I can't Burger on the 4th line. I would put Ras on the 4th line but believe he or Fischer will end up there. It gets ugly here, but in that bottom 6 I am highest on Burger.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Johansson-Seider
Edvinsson-Gustafsson
Chiarot-Petry
Maatta / Holl

This is the third preseason now. Not once has any reporter provided notes from any practice that Mo and Maatta were ever tried together. Like WTF is practice for if not to try things out? We know Mo and Chiarot are a mediocre combination. We knew it 2 years ago and we know it now. Just try something else. If everything else is bad, guess what... the mediocre Mo and Chiarot pairing is still there to land on. It's not going anywhere. But if you're too chicken to try something in practice you know damn sure that when shit isn't working in a game he's not going to try it then. It's ridiculously limiting to not put other combinations out there and at least get a feel for if it works or not.

Maatta - Mo
Ed - Gus
AlJo - Petry
Chia - Holl

Like, whats the harm in running that?

Then next game

AlJo - Mo
Ed - Holl
Chia - AlJo
Gus - Petry

There are so many combinations that don't immediately land with Chia - Mo and Ed - Petry.

If the point is that Lalonde isn’t experimenting as well as he could during preseason then sure I guess I can get behind that, although we’ll see what happens over the course of preseason.

I just wish people would be realistic about the talent on the blueline. Play Edvinsson with Holl as you suggest and people will bitch that we’re playing our best young prospect with a pylon, for one example. We don’t have a top pairing LHD, we don’t have a second pairing RHD. It’s tough to build a coherent defense without talent, and Lalonde isn’t in charge of the bringing in talent part.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Meanwhile ASP did this:

 

[Chris Langlois]

Meanwhile ASP did this:

I look forward to the day he plays with edvinsson. I know everyone wants ed to play with seider but I think it'd look better ed with asp and someone else with seider. Just unreal potential.

 

[norrisnick]

If the point is that Lalonde isn’t experimenting as well as he could during preseason then sure I guess I can get behind that, although we’ll see what happens over the course of preseason.

I just wish people would be realistic about the talent on the blueline. Play Edvinsson with Holl as you suggest and people will bitch that we’re playing our best young prospect with a pylon, for one example. We don’t have a top pairing LHD, we don’t have a second pairing RHD. It’s tough to build a coherent defense without talent, and Lalonde isn’t in charge of the bringing in talent part.

That's what's happening already.

We don't know if we have a top pairing LHD if we just run out the one we already know isn't one.

 

[lilidk]

I look forward to the day he plays with edvinsson. I know everyone wants ed to play with seider but I think it'd look better ed with asp and someone else with seider. Just unreal potential.

Ed Seider
Cleveland ASP
I don't care about Cleveland offense potential, as long as he be good at defense and bring physicality to the pair.

 

[izlez]

That's what's happening already.

We don't know if we have a top pairing LHD if we just run out the one we already know isn't one.

Do you think it's possible that the coaches spend all day every day working with these guys and already do know how these different pairings would look and would rather give the actual pairings some time to gel rather than satisfying your curiosities?

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

That's what's happening already.

That’s kind of my point though. Edvinsson’s non-Seider pairing options are two right-handed pylons in Petry and Holl, NYRs third pairing LHD in Gus, and Johansson, a left handed prospect with zero NHL experience. That’s a GMing problem to me.

We don't know if we have a top pairing LHD if we just run out the one we already know isn't one.

Ok but anyone being practical knows that we probably don’t. Edvinsson is the one possibility. I thought he was solid to end the year but no one would say he was playing a top pairing level. We’ll see what happens as the season progresses.

Maatta and Gustafsson are not top pairing players, we don’t need to see them next to Seider to make that determination. I’ll have the Johansson-brigade in my inbox telling me he has top pairing upside. I’d like to see him establish that he has NHL upside first.

Again if we want to see Lalonde shuffle the deck more fine, obviously we all want him to play the hand he’s dealt as best as he can. But he can’t turn a six into an ace. Unless he’s a magician. This card analogy is running away from me.

 

[norrisnick]

That’s kind of my point though. Edvinsson’s non-Seider pairing options are two right-handed pylons in Petry and Holl, NYRs third pairing LHD in Gus, and Johansson, a left handed prospect with zero NHL experience. That’s a GMing problem to me.



Ok but anyone being practical knows that we probably don’t. Edvinsson is the one possibility. I thought he was solid to end the year but no one would say he was playing a top pairing level. We’ll see what happens as the season progresses.

Maatta and Gustafsson are not top pairing players, we don’t need to see them next to Seider to make that determination. I’ll have the Johansson-brigade in my inbox telling me he has top pairing upside. I’d like to see him establish that he has NHL upside first.

Again if we want to see Lalonde shuffle the deck more fine, obviously we all want him to play the hand he’s dealt as best as he can. But he can’t turn a six into an ace. Unless he’s a magician. This card analogy is running away from me.

There is nothing inherently practical about "we tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."

Most around here thought Maatta - Hronek was our top pairing before Olli got sick. Mo is better than Hronek. To hand wave away Maatta's ability to be a serviceable top pairing guy while embracing the status quo of Chiarot up there is a choice

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

That’s kind of my point though. Edvinsson’s non-Seider pairing options are two right-handed pylons in Petry and Holl, NYRs third pairing LHD in Gus, and Johansson, a left handed prospect with zero NHL experience. That’s a GMing problem to me.



Ok but anyone being practical knows that we probably don’t. Edvinsson is the one possibility. I thought he was solid to end the year but no one would say he was playing a top pairing level. We’ll see what happens as the season progresses.

Maatta and Gustafsson are not top pairing players, we don’t need to see them next to Seider to make that determination. I’ll have the Johansson-brigade in my inbox telling me he has top pairing upside. I’d like to see him establish that he has NHL upside first.

Again if we want to see Lalonde shuffle the deck more fine, obviously we all want him to play the hand he’s dealt as best as he can. But he can’t turn a six into an ace. Unless he’s a magician. This card analogy is running away from me.

Some times in life there just aren't any good options...

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Just like people get overwrought by practice line combinations that end up being nothing to worry about, there is really nothing to get upset about with initial line/pair combinations at training camp. It makes perfect sense to see where everyone is at physically and put them in familiar spots to start. There is inevitably going to be some experimentation with only partial rosters in preseason games, a guy needing days off for minor injury or worse, someone looking different than expected and tried in a different role, etc.

The other thing is that Wings' issues are not just personnel related, they're system related. Collectively, their d-zone play last season was horrible and it wasn't just because the D had puck movement limitations. It makes sense to see if many of the same combinations can be coached up or just execute better.

There aren't really a lot of changes likely. There's a probably set top line and two-thirds of a returning second line. There are 12 near locks for forward positions. Ras-Copp-Fischer was the team's best defensive matchup line last season. The main lineup decisions are for a second top six LW and a 2RD. The third pair is guaranteed to be tinkered with for a while from the remaining known bodies. The main roster decision is whether to go with three goalies or cut it down to two. If it stays at three on the active roster, the only way a rookie forward makes the team is through injury or if he plays so well he forces SY to do somethiing to accommodate him. The only noteworthy thing to me about the first full session was Motte being used at center. If $800K Motte is seen as potentially a better C option than $2.275M Veleno, that's not only a really low bar for a rookie C to beat, it's also hard to see Veleno being in the team's plans much longer.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

There is nothing inherently practical about "we tried nothing and we're all out of ideas."

Most around here thought Maatta - Hronek was our top pairing before Olli got sick. Mo is better than Hronek. To hand wave away Maatta's ability to be a serviceable top pairing guy while embracing the status quo of Chiarot up there is a choice

How long do we need to try pairs exactly? Give us a game count. Something tells me people want to ride the pairings carousel all season long just so they have something to bitch about.

I am just going to trust the butcher when it comes to finding Seider a partner.

 

[norrisnick]

How long do we need to try pairs exactly? Give us a game count. Something tells me people want to ride the pairings carousel all season long just so they have something to bitch about.

I am just going to trust the butcher when it comes to finding Seider a partner.

Less than the 34 games Chia got two seasons ago hopefully. The butcher gave you that...

 

[DoMakc]

That’s kind of my point though. Edvinsson’s non-Seider pairing options are two right-handed pylons in Petry and Holl, NYRs third pairing LHD in Gus, and Johansson, a left handed prospect with zero NHL experience. That’s a GMing problem to me.



Ok but anyone being practical knows that we probably don’t. Edvinsson is the one possibility. I thought he was solid to end the year but no one would say he was playing a top pairing level. We’ll see what happens as the season progresses.

Maatta and Gustafsson are not top pairing players, we don’t need to see them next to Seider to make that determination. I’ll have the Johansson-brigade in my inbox telling me he has top pairing upside. I’d like to see him establish that he has NHL upside first.

Again if we want to see Lalonde shuffle the deck more fine, obviously we all want him to play the hand he’s dealt as best as he can. But he can’t turn a six into an ace. Unless he’s a magician. This card analogy is running away from me.

Johansson was Simon‘s regular partner last year in GR. Just stating "left-handed prospect with 0 NHL games" is a dishonest argument:
- Johansson played a lot on the right side
- Johansson played with Edvinsson, there is a high level of familiarity.
Pairing two rookies requires a lot of balls, but that is actually the criticism of the coaches. Instead of trying to be creative in finding the solution, they are seemingly content with something which historically didn’t produce results, but is not bold enough to be criticized if it fails.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Just as a note the comment about Mo and Maatta not once being reported as working together extends to all practices. Not just training camp.

according to dobber, seider played 54 minutes with maatta last year

 

[norrisnick]

And 49 minutes with Petry. ES shifts after a penalty expires gets weird. It's not a planned deployment.

 

[RRhoads]

And 49 minutes with Petry. ES shifts after a penalty expires gets weird. It's not a planned deployment.

Sometimes because of injury also, and also when they go 11-7