Rumor: 2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Thread: Post Deadline

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There's no reason to trade both Girard and Manson
I can name 2 reasons:

- Cap space
- Asset management

If you keep Manson and let Lindgren walk it's a big asset loss. And you can't have both Girard and Lindgren making 5M on the left side since one would have to play 3rd pairing.

It makes a ton of sense to swap Girard and Manson for Lindgren and Maklinski. Then you have an extra 3M+ to beef up the 3rd pair and you get good picks back from the trades.
 
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Nah I think Nelson was always their no.1 guy. That's why they moved early for him, more than 24 hours before the actual deadline. Then it was just a case of finding the right trade involving Mittelstadt and they clearly felt that Coyle was the main guy they wanted and could afford.

Then it was just a case of trying to see if they could squeeze in Carlo with the remaining assets, which they just clearly didn't have the assets or capspace to do once Toronto upped their offer.

Yeah, I think Nelson was definitely their no 1 guy. He was the best option. I'm not entirely sure they thought they'd get him though. Seems like NYI was trying to sign him, and he was considering it, up until the last minute when he reportedly rejected a three year deal.

I'm also not sure the Avs originally were planning on ponying up all those assets, because they had other trades in mind.

But at some point, perhaps when it became clear Mikko might go to Dallas a couple weeks prior, I think maybe Joe and CMac just said eff it, lets just get this done, and made the deal.

Lines up with Briere telling EJ the deal with the Avs looked like it might not happen, and then saying it was back on the table after the Coyle trade, according to EJ.

Also the more I think about it, the more I think Nelson might be a rental, and Coyle might be the 2C next year. I think they'll try to re-sign Nelson, but in addition to there being a lot of smoke about him going to Minny, it just seems so out of character for the Avs to pay $5.25M for a 3C. Even with the extra space.
 
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I can name 2 reasons:

- Cap space
- Asset management

If you keep Manson and let Lindgren walk it's a big asset loss. And you can't have both Girard and Lindgren making 5M on the left side since one would have to play 3rd pairing.

It makes a ton of sense to swap Girard and Manson for Lindgren and Maklinski. Then you have an extra 3M+ to beef up the 3rd pair and you get good picks back from the trades.
And if you had a child as short as Girard, you’d leave him in the wilderness for the wolves.
 
I would let Girard go before I let Lindgren walk, assuming we can get Lindgren signed to a 3.5M deal. Girard is just easier to replace with Malinski.
If Lindgren is willing to take 3.5m then this whole discussion is moot.
I disagree with the part in bold. You're assuming that there would be a cost to replace Manson, but that there wouldn't be a cost to replace Lindgren.

If Lindgren walks you have to replace him - just as you would have to do if Manson left, but with Lindgren walking you get nothing in terms of assets when he leaves to put towards a replacement. Whereas with Manson leaving you'd at least get some assets back to give you a head-start on replacing him.

As for trading Coyle, ^%@$ no to that. The Avs finally have enviously good center depth, please don't mess with it for the sake of a 5D.
Lindgren's replacement, in the short term, is Middleton or another league minimum guy. You'd still have Girard and Manson to play second pair, and Malinski to step up when there are injuries. Without Lindgren, we just need a #6 LD with grit and PK ability.

I disagree with the bold part. If we trade Manson, we need to replace him ASAP, which means either getting his replacement in exchange for him (in basically a three way deal) or getting his replacement in exchange for Colton. My concern is that if Landy is back and we re-sign Drouin, after moving Wood and Colton there isn't much cap space left for a Manson replacement, so it's likely we'll spend all or most of the year without one.

And yeah, trading Coyle was just my brain looking for a way out since I couldn't decide between Girard, Lindgren and Manson. Which one I'd move changes every day. There are good arguments all around.

I mean, the roster you posted would probably be fine, assuming Lindgren can play the right side.
There is a another option other than letting Drouin walk or wasting one of Lehkonen/Nichushkin/Landeskog on the 3rd line... which is to trade a winger for a RHD. I'll leave it at that lol
1742780722996.png

Come on now
 
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I can name 2 reasons:

- Cap space
- Asset management

If you keep Manson and let Lindgren walk it's a big asset loss. And you can't have both Girard and Lindgren making 5M on the left side since one would have to play 3rd pairing.

It makes a ton of sense to swap Girard and Manson for Lindgren and Maklinski. Then you have an extra 3M+ to beef up the 3rd pair and you get good picks back from the trades.
1742785067581.png

In the short term I'd rather have Girard or Manson than Kiviranta and Perbix (or whoever). But long term this plan actually makes a lot of sense. Perbix in particular fills our long-term need for someone to replace Manson, and the only way we could afford a decent Manson replacement next year would be by trading Manson and Girard/Lindgren. If we can get the Manson replacement right away, then I'd rather keep Girard than Lindgren, because if we keep him, I could see Girard being a lifetime Avalanche and re-upping when his contract is up. Lindgren, meanwhile, I expect to deteriorate quite quickly.
 
trading Lehky is a pretty dumb move IMO. It’ll be another interesting offseason.

It just really frustrating the avs weren’t able to get retention on coyle. That’d helped out so much
Hear me out. What if Vesey has a goal or two in the next few weeks? Would it be a good idea to give Vesey 6 year deal and trade Lehky for a draft pick?
 
Fwiw the projected contracts I have seen from a couple different pages suggest Lindgrens next deal would be for $3.85M for 3-4 years.


Now if he has a good and deep playoff run with us that could change things but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he ends up getting less then what he makes now as a UFA. His numbers for a couple years now have been pretty bad.

But again a deep playoff run with us likely changes things.
 
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Yeah, I think Nelson was definitely their no 1 guy. He was the best option. I'm not entirely sure they thought they'd get him though. Seems like NYI was trying to sign him, and he was considering it, up until the last minute when he reportedly rejected a three year deal.

I'm also not sure the Avs originally were planning on ponying up all those assets, because they had other trades in mind.

But at some point, perhaps when it became clear Mikko might go to Dallas a couple weeks prior, I think maybe Joe and CMac just said eff it, lets just get this done, and made the deal.

Lines up with Briere telling EJ the deal with the Avs looked like it might not happen, and then saying it was back on the table after the Coyle trade, according to EJ.

Also the more I think about it, the more I think Nelson might be a rental, and Coyle might be the 2C next year. I think they'll try to re-sign Nelson, but in addition to there being a lot of smoke about him going to Minny, it just seems so out of character for the Avs to pay $5.25M for a 3C. Even with the extra space.
I think their preferred combination was Jones + Coyle/Nelson + #3C, but once Florida got Jones they pivoted and looked at Nelson + Coyle + Carlo, and ultimately settled for Nelson + Coyle + EJ.

I was a pretty big proponent of Jones and I still think he'll eventually be a very solid #3/4 for them, but he's struggling more than I thought.
 
If Lindgren is willing to take 3.5m then this whole discussion is moot.

Lindgren's replacement, in the short term, is Middleton or another league minimum guy. You'd still have Girard and Manson to play second pair, and Malinski to step up when there are injuries. Without Lindgren, we just need a #6 LD with grit and PK ability.

I disagree with the bold part. If we trade Manson, we need to replace him ASAP, which means either getting his replacement in exchange for him (in basically a three way deal) or getting his replacement in exchange for Colton. My concern is that if Landy is back and we re-sign Drouin, after moving Wood and Colton there isn't much cap space left for a Manson replacement, so it's likely we'll spend all or most of the year without one.

And yeah, trading Coyle was just my brain looking for a way out since I couldn't decide between Girard, Lindgren and Manson. Which one I'd move changes every day. There are good arguments all around.

I mean, the roster you posted would probably be fine, assuming Lindgren can play the right side.

View attachment 998357
Come on now
Capspace would be tight but as I posted earlier it's possible to make things work with Lindgren on the right to have enough to sign a 3LHD for up to $2m, which would presumably be someone better than your typical league minimum vets.

Also definitely don't want to see Middleton in the top 6 as a regular. Not only does the Middleton-Malinski pairing not work (as shown by the metrics I posted earlier in the thread) but then you're just one or two injuries away from having Middleton in the top 4.

As for Lehkonen, obviously it's not something I would be looking to do, and I'd turn over every other stone for a RHD before I even consider that. But if you can get a really good young Manson style RHD on a cheap contract (ELC or first RFA deal) then something like that would balance the roster, taking from a strength to fill the biggest hole.
 
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Fwiw the projected contracts I have seen from a couple different pages suggest Lindgrens next deal would be for $3.85M for 3-4 years.


Now if he has a good and deep playoff run with us that could change things but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he ends up getting less then what he makes now as a UFA. His numbers for a couple years now have been pretty bad.

But again a deep playoff run with us likely changes things.
GM's fall over themselves to throw money at Dmen on July 1st. When guys like Kovacevic and Borgen are getting 4-5 years at $4m+ then there will definitely be a GM out there willing to throw at least a $4m x 4 at Lindgren who plays that physical brand and also has top pairing and playoff experience.
 
Capspace would be tight but as I posted earlier it's possible to make things work with Lindgren on the right to have enough to sign a 3LHD for up to $2m, which would presumably be someone better than your typical league minimum vets.

Also definitely don't want to see Middleton in the top 6 as a regular. Not only does the Middleton-Malinski pairing not work (as shown by the metrics I posted earlier in the thread) but then you're just one or two injuries away from having Middleton in the top 4.

As for Lehkonen, obviously it's not something I would be looking to do, and I'd turn over every other stone for a RHD before I even consider that. But if you can get a really good young Manson style RHD on a cheap contract (ELC or first RFA deal) then something like that would balance the roster, taking from a strength to fill the biggest hole.
This is the hard part, although I don't think the replacement needs to be right shot. Like I said a while back Arber Xhekaj is a young Manson, and would be perfect as our #6, and he's making 1.3m next season. Montreal needs to make room for Reinbacher and Mailloux, so something needs to give there. Maybe Montreal would want Colton.
 
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Tampa won two cups with all their money on the left:
  • Hedman (7.87), McDonagh (6.75), Sergachev (4.8)
  • Cernak (2.95), Ruutta (1.3), Savard (1.0)/Shattenkirk (1.75)
Before the Girard injury, Colorado was replicating that with Toews/Girard/Lindgren vs Makar/Malinski/EJ. It would be easy to go into next season with that group and then beef up the right side at the TDL.

Unless the Avs get wrecked in the first round, I'm not expecting major surgery this off-season. The team is light on assets and is as close to being balanced as they've ever been. Trading Girard is a solution looking for a problem. Moving Manson makes a lot more sense (age, contract, injury history).
 
Can't believe some people are penciling in Lindgren to a top-4 role next year. The main reason he's looked so good is his sheltered role. Plus, he's a lot easier to replace on the bottom pair than Girard in the top 4 at $5M.
It's logical to try to move on from Manson but at the same time it's extremely difficult to replace him stylistically. I'm of the opinion we keep the top-4 intact and add more depth again at the deadline.

Let Lindgren walk if he wants to get paid. Asset management be damned.
 
This is the hard part, although I don't think the replacement needs to be right shot. Like I said a while back Arber Xhekaj is a young Manson, and would be perfect as our #6, and he's making 1.3m next season. Montreal needs to make room for Reinbacher and Mailloux, so something needs to give there. Maybe Montreal would want Colton.
Matheson is a guy I'd look at from the Habs, although there would be many suitors. With Hutson and Guhle on the left side he's the guy that will be shipped out.
 
Can't believe some people are penciling in Lindgren to a top-4 role next year. The main reason he's looked so good is his sheltered role. Plus, he's a lot easier to replace on the bottom pair than Girard in the top 4 at $5M.
It's logical to try to move on from Manson but at the same time it's extremely difficult to replace him stylistically. I'm of the opinion we keep the top-4 intact and add more depth again at the deadline.

Let Lindgren walk if he wants to get paid. Asset management be damned.

I don't disagree with your overall opinion. But I think you're selling Lindgren a little short. He's playing top-4 minutes already (19:12). Manson is only at 18:02 and that's the highest he's ever been with the Avs (17:47 in his 173gp). Even with the handedness issues, Bednar has found a way to play both Girard and Lindgren a lot.

It's also worth noting that the Girard-Manson pairing hasn't been very good this year:

CF%SF%GF%xGF%
Girard-Manson52.650.138.1 49.2
Girard w/o Manson53.353.456.550.9
Manson w/o Girard53.151.852.445.3
Girard-Johnson (small sample)60.562.2n/a59.1
 
View attachment 998388
In the short term I'd rather have Girard or Manson than Kiviranta and Perbix (or whoever). But long term this plan actually makes a lot of sense. Perbix in particular fills our long-term need for someone to replace Manson, and the only way we could afford a decent Manson replacement next year would be by trading Manson and Girard/Lindgren. If we can get the Manson replacement right away, then I'd rather keep Girard than Lindgren, because if we keep him, I could see Girard being a lifetime Avalanche and re-upping when his contract is up. Lindgren, meanwhile, I expect to deteriorate quite quickly.
Ya'll keep mentioning Perbix as if he'd be easy to sign. Why wouldn't he just re-sign in Tampa where the weather is good and the taxes are low?

Considering that Wood ($2.5m x 6) and Donskoi ($3.9m x 4) are the only bigger UFA signings the Avs have made in the last 5-6 years other than their own UFA's it seems pretty optimistic to pencil in UFA's like Perbix.
 
This is the hard part, although I don't think the replacement needs to be right shot. Like I said a while back Arber Xhekaj is a young Manson, and would be perfect as our #6, and he's making 1.3m next season. Montreal needs to make room for Reinbacher and Mailloux, so something needs to give there. Maybe Montreal would want Colton.
If you don't care about handedness when finding a Manson replacement, why not just sign Lindgren? He does everything Manson does except he's not as tall (though he's built stocky).

Regarding Montreal, do you think Colton would waive his M-NTC for Canada? I doubt it.
 
Matheson is a guy I'd look at from the Habs, although there would be many suitors. With Hutson and Guhle on the left side he's the guy that will be shipped out.
$4.875m seems a little bit too high for a 3LHD given the Avs cap situation. I guess you could get a bit of retention though since it's just 1 year remaining. That would probably be more expensive than it would be worth though.
 
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Ya'll keep mentioning Perbix as if he'd be easy to sign. Why wouldn't he just re-sign in Tampa where the weather is good and the taxes are low?

Considering that Wood ($2.5m x 6) and Donskoi ($3.9m x 4) are the only bigger UFA signings the Avs have made in the last 5-6 years other than their own UFA's it seems pretty optimistic to pencil in UFA's like Perbix.
I think he might've extended by now if he wanted.
 
Fwiw the projected contracts I have seen from a couple different pages suggest Lindgrens next deal would be for $3.85M for 3-4 years.


Now if he has a good and deep playoff run with us that could change things but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he ends up getting less then what he makes now as a UFA. His numbers for a couple years now have been pretty bad.

But again a deep playoff run with us likely changes things.
Agreed, though I suspect Lindgren will get much more than $3.8M per, regardless of how the Avs do in the playoffs.
 
With regards to the discussion about potential Manson replacements, here's a post about Braden Schneider in a conversation I'm having on the main boards:
Most of us like Schneider, except for the people who are advanced stats only in their analysis.

His analytics are kind of bad, but he’s almost always saddled with whoever is our 6D (and this is not a team with 6 NHL defensemen), so it’s kind of tough to judge him on that.

There’s nothing wrong with him. He’s just gotten put into a spot where there’s little opportunity to advance beyond our 5D (and really for any smart coach he would play less than 5D minutes because Fox should be taking minutes away from the 3rd pair RHD). Maybe it could’ve worked out that he takes 2RHD to start the season and we never trade for Borgen. Schneider earned it, but it didn’t work well with our pairs because Lindgren was injured, which kind of ruined everything. They stuck with the atrocious Miller-Trouba pairing mostly until Trouba got traded. Basically Trouba grifted off the injury to Lindgren in how the pairings were constructed, and when things blew up they traded Trouba, and then acquired Borgen very soon after.

Maybe Schneider could’ve taken the 2RHD to start when Borgen arrived, but he didn’t. I think most figured they’d kind of rotate for the rest of the season, maybe Borgen gets flipped at the deadline. It certainly wasn’t the biggest thing to worry about, as the team had way bigger problems. And then Borgen started playing great hockey. Has been our second best defensemen this season (and hasn’t even been here the whole season). His solid defense helped spring the team at the turn of the year. He kind of calmed down Miller’s pathetic play to start the season. Giving him an extension was something he earned.

It has put Schneider in a tough spot. Our first rounder from this past year is also a RHD, and RHD is never gonna be a big need for us, given we have Fox and can always just give him an extra five minutes, if it ever got bad with the other two, so it makes Schneider expendable (we also traded Mancini in the JT Miller trade, who looks like an NHL RHD). He’d probably do a perfectly fine job as a #4 right now.

If Schneider is available he'd be as ideal of a replacement for Manson as you could hope to find. 6'3'', can skate, and plays a physical brand of hockey.

He has a $2.2m caphit for one more year, after which he's an RFA. $2.2m is manageable (as I show in the roster below), and the Avs could easily afford his RFA pay rise in 2026 given that the cap is projected to rise quite a bit in 2026.

Below is a roster including Schneider. Manson, Wood, and Colton would be traded out for caproom. NYR may have interest in Colton as they need a 3C and Colton would probably waive as he's from nearby NJ.

1742849391712.png

1742849411736.png
 
Capspace would be tight but as I posted earlier it's possible to make things work with Lindgren on the right to have enough to sign a 3LHD for up to $2m, which would presumably be someone better than your typical league minimum vets.

Also definitely don't want to see Middleton in the top 6 as a regular. Not only does the Middleton-Malinski pairing not work (as shown by the metrics I posted earlier in the thread) but then you're just one or two injuries away from having Middleton in the top 4.

As for Lehkonen, obviously it's not something I would be looking to do, and I'd turn over every other stone for a RHD before I even consider that. But if you can get a really good young Manson style RHD on a cheap contract (ELC or first RFA deal) then something like that would balance the roster, taking from a strength to fill the biggest hole.
The problem with trading Lehky, is that we would be well and truly F'd should Val go off the rails (um, pardon the expression.) Also Landy's health still isn't fully resolved. If Landy comes back this spring and plays up to a second line level and Val continues to keep things in control... yeah, maybe I could see Lehky being the offset. Also, Lehky isn't exactly the most stout of players. He only managed 16 regular season games for us in 21/22. :sarcasm: But in 22/23 he missed 18 games, in 23/24 he missed 37 games and he's missed 12 so far this season. That would be the only drawback Lehky has in my opinion.

Lehky provides Selke defense but granted does not score goals the way Nuke does. But with Lehky, it's not the number of goals he scores... it's when he scores them. The guy is CLUTCH. He had 4 GWGs in our Cup year, one of which was in OT.


Ya'll keep mentioning Perbix as if he'd be easy to sign. Why wouldn't he just re-sign in Tampa where the weather is good and the taxes are low?

Considering that Wood ($2.5m x 6) and Donskoi ($3.9m x 4) are the only bigger UFA signings the Avs have made in the last 5-6 years other than their own UFA's it seems pretty optimistic to pencil in UFA's like Perbix.
Wait... people actually want Perbix? I just thought this was board chatter about a fun name to say and type.
 

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