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WC: 2024 Team Latvia Roster Talk

Namejs

Namejs

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Dec 24, 2011
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Following a bronze medal run last year, the bar has been raised and the expectations will be high.

The preliminary group is, well, weak. Our first 4 matches are against Poland, France, Kazakhstan and Germany.

Not making the quarters is going to be viewed as an upset.

We are in the middle of a bit of a change of guard. Or at least should be. Several of our leading and the more experienced players on the wrong side of 30 are having a rough year.

The older Bukarts is a shadow of himself in Czechia, Daugavins is playing in Slovakia, Kenins is barely getting any points in NL. Girgensons has 4 pts in the NHL and is playing his way out of the league.

The Euro-based U23 guys have been a bit of a letdown too. Out of the 5/6 in NL/SL, none have really been difference makers. Smirnovs is out with a long term injury. Zabusovs fell off and has ended up in Cze2. Andzans and Tumanovs did get contracts in Liiga, but there's a big round zero in their stat sheets.

Rihards Bukarts did not cut it in NL and isn't exactly stellar in Czechia either. Krastenbergs is back in ICEHL and isn't very dominant there. Dzierkals is a black hole in SHL.

Very few positives, to be honest. Blueger has finally found rhythm with Canucks, but very likely won't be available due to play-offs. Tralmaks has 27 points in Czechia on a really shoddy team and he finally will make the national team. Ansons is proving that he belongs in the AHL, as expected, but likely won't be available to join the training camp in time. Batna has finally found confidence and trust and has 30 points and a bunch of goals in Liiga. Obviously, Balinskis was solid in the NHL and had a crazy scoring run in the AHL, but he probably won't be available.

We have a massive Latvian corps in NCAA, which is now officially the preferred career pathway for most Latvian prospects. We have a whopping 13 players there. But with our Euro-biased coaching staff, you might as well cross most of them off the list, even though several of them are worthy of the national team as it is. Which is one of the downsides of having most of your prospects in North America.

As exciting as some of our junior prospects are, I can't really see anyone not named Locmelis to make it. I'd love to take a look at Vilmanis as well.

In short, our more experienced players are underperforming, goalies included. The future is bright, but the coaching staff probably won't be brave enough to look into the future and will continue relying on household names too much.

Which makes me a little careful about our chances this time around. We have a LOT of depth players for Latvian standards, but the top 6 is not good enough. Without Blueger and Balinskis, we don't really have any elite playmakers.

Tralmaks is a better version of Bukarts, Marenis can replace Kenins, but that's about it.

If it were up to me, I would use this tournament to inject some new blood and a bunch of new names into the mix in preparation for the Olympics. They should take some risks. We're not going to lose to Poland, the rankings don't matter.
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Namejs said:
We have a massive Latvian corps in NCAA, which is now officially the preferred career pathway for most Latvian prospects. We have a whopping 13 players there. But with our Euro-biased coaching staff, you might as well cross most of them off the list, even though several of them are worthy of the national team as it is. Which is one of the downsides of having most of your prospects in North America.
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Pretty weird take considering Latvia has NCAA players on the roster regularly. Bergmanis, Locmelis and Veinbergs would be returning to the team and the only other player deserving consideration is named Vitolins so you know he's getting a look.

While I agree with the general "repeat is unlikely, let's inject some new blood" sentiment, it's not really clear who are the names that could be injected. Tralmaks is a no-brainer at this point but for the rest of the crowd, out of those who haven't played in the WC yet, Egle and Ansons are the only ones that come to mind.

And Ansons is having a rocky season, to say the least. You have to overlook A LOT of stuff to come out with that sort of positive conclusion. His ECHL stats look terrible and his AHL ones are a fluke, I thought you'd be the first to point out he generates less than 1 SOG per game so even if he stays healthy the rest of the way his realistic projection is 4 goals. I think he is kinda lucky he has a contract for next year because at this point he is still fighting not to get sent back down to the ECHL every game.
 
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Players don't get selected from NCAA, they get selected from before they began playing in NCAA. That was the main point. If you'd take a look at where Locmelis or Veinbergs stand in terms of their production, they're not exactly at the top of the list among the Latvians there. They already are household names, particularly Locmelis.

I am high on Ansons and the context here is his last season, but I do agree with you on the numbers part. The sample size is small and there's no basis other than my rosy glasses to project him to continue producing at that rate in the A. It's a good sign, but you can't read into that too much. Still worthy of a look, though.

And that's sort of the entire issue here. We have a long list of 'prospects', but it's hard to single someone out in particular.

Which is why I would call them up wholesale and take risks while we can afford it.

The alternative here is to lose sight of them until they turn 26/27, like Tralmaks or Egle. Because you know Vitolins would prefer a 2nd division Swiss guy with 2 points over anyone in NCAA.
 
jonas2244 said:
Usa, Sweden, Slovakia and Germany are higher rankend and have more depth, so no, no upset if Latvia gets 5th in that group.
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Thanks for your input, that's exactly what I said.

It is going to be viewed as an upset in Latvia, though.
 
Namejs said:
Several of our leading and the more experienced players on the wrong side of 30 are having a rough year.
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It has been the same for some time now. Dont see how this year is any different.

Bukarts and Kenins have not been a factor in the NT for like 4-5 years. Girgensons hasnt played in the WC for 7 years.

The main concerns for me are:
Abols, who is having a less than ideal year in Sweden;
Balinskis, who will not be available in the following years;
Silovs, who will probably stay in Vancouver for a long playoff run even if his AHL team does not make it far;
Punenovs, who managed to get relegated to the second swiss league.

Abols will still center our top line regardless of his club statistics, and Balinskis is somewhat compensated by Rubins, who will be available from the start.

Rihards playing average hockey in Czechia is still better than playing in Austria. He always plays above his level in the NT (same as Dzierkals), and I would bet he is a top 3 NT scorer even if he misses the club season completely. Balcers is having a great season in Switzerland. Indrasis and Daugavins are having fantastic seasons in Allswenskan and Slovakia, and those leagues are not that far behind from DEL, where they played last year. Batna doing great. Tralmaks doing great. Gudlevskis is playing out of his mind and will be our main goaltender if Elvis will need another restart or gets traded to a play off team, and Silovs stays in Vancouver in case of an emergency.

Balcers - Abols - Daugavins
Jaks - Rubins

Tralmaks - Locmelis - Indrasis
Freibergs - Zile

Ri. Bukarts - Batna - Dzierkals
Cukste - Mamcics

Andersons - Marenis - Egle
Tumanovs - Bergmanis

Elvis
Gudlevskis

Out of the NA, maybe Vitolins, Lavins or Veinbergs center the bottom lines, but I dont think they are better than Marenis, who can play C. Locmelis is here purely because of his previos NT experience, he is having an average season.

I would like to see Vilmanis and Fenenko in the mix, but Vitolins will go with the EU pros.
 
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Eye of Ra said:
If u think 14 latvians in NCAA is "massive" then what is then 57 swedes in NCAA?

www.eliteprospects.com

Elite Prospects - NCAA Stats 2023-2024

2023-2024 regular season player stats for NCAA, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.
www.eliteprospects.com www.eliteprospects.com
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You really did not get the point? How many hockey players does Sweden have in comparison with Latvia? And how many of collegiate players would make the Swedish national team?

It's in no way an issue for Sweden. It is an issue for Latvia. We're not measuring dicks here, it just shows how large of a share of our entire prospect pool is playing there.

We have barely a 100 decent pro players to choose from.
 
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Eye of Ra said:
If u think 14 latvians in NCAA is "massive" then what is then 57 swedes in NCAA?

www.eliteprospects.com

Elite Prospects - NCAA Stats 2023-2024

2023-2024 regular season player stats for NCAA, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.
www.eliteprospects.com www.eliteprospects.com
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In the eliteprospects database, there are 103 K swedish players, and less than 5 K Latvian players. So this is a weird comparison. It is extremely popular to take the NCAA route among Latvians now. They are 5th most represented nation in the league, which does not reflect the actual standing of Latvian hockey.
However, non of the guys are difference makers. Glad for the guys that they get to study, they have a great time and it will benefit them in the future. Few of them will have an impact in the national team and proffessional hockey, though. Maybe on the level of Freibergs, who is an NCAA graduate himself and has a good carreer in Czechia and is a staple in lower NT lines thanks to always being just slightly better than his competition.
 
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SoundAndFury said:
Trying legitimate prospects is one thing, guys who may never play professional hockey is another.
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That's way, way too harsh of an assessment.

A lot of forwards scoring above 0.67 PPG in NCAA get to play in AHL. Worst case scenario here is ECHL unless you're a midget.

A lot of undrafted Europeans scoring at a similar rate eventually end up in Liiga, DEL, etc.

In terms of NHL point equivalency, NCAA is very close to the Slovakian league. To say that they will never play pro hockey is ludicrous.

If you're not playing pro hockey after being somewhat productive in NCAA, it's because you don't want to play pro hockey and prefer a different career which might be more profitable if you are forced to go the ECHL path.
 
I would definitely call up the NHL draftees Locmelis, Veinbergs who just had a 4 point game in NCAA last night and A. Bergmanis who has been a part of the national team the last couple of years. That's the bare minimum.

I'd love to take a look at Gavars and Vitolins, but that is entirely dependent on their availability. Tralmaks was not allowed to join the national team a few years ago because he was struggling academically so there are a bunch of extra factors here.

If they are allowed to join the training camp early, we should take a look at them.

Lavins is also potential future role player in the national team. He's full of energy and could be a shifty grinder type, similar to what Kenins was 5+ years ago. The same kind of energy Marenis brings as well.
 
Namejs said:
That's way, way too harsh of an assessment.

A lot of forwards scoring above 0.67 PPG in NCAA get to play in AHL. Worst case scenario here is ECHL unless you're a midget.
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That was directed at Skrastins who is nowhere near that statline, a midget (by hockey standards) and 22 already. And yes, I do realize it's by choice as there are places in the world where he could still be a professional player. I mean one can play in UAE and still be one. But most players at that skill level simply choose not to go the ECHL (or lower) path.

And your Slovak league analogy is very accurate: would anyone even consider someone scoring 0,4 PPG in the Slovak league? Why waste breath on someone whose best career scenario, if he decides to stick to hockey (which is far from given), is Filips Buncis?

That was my point. Prospects are prospects but trying out just about every longshot aound you can find because it's trendy would be just as much a waste as not calling up anyone from NCAA. Why the need to massively overcompensate to one side or the other.
 
SoundAndFury said:
That was directed at Skrastins who is nowhere near that statline, a midget (by hockey standards) and 22 already. And yes, I do realize it's by choice as there are places in the world where he could still be a professional player. I mean one can play in UAE and still be one. But most players at that skill level simply choose not to go the ECHL (or lower) path.

And your Slovak league analogy is very accurate: would anyone even consider someone scoring 0,4 PPG in the Slovak league? Why waste breath on someone whose best career scenario, if he decides to stick to hockey (which is far from given), is Filips Buncis?

That was my point. Prospects are prospects but trying out just about every longshot aound you can find because it's trendy would be just as much a waste as not calling up anyone from NCAA. Why the need to massively overcompensate to one side or the other.
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I'm sure you know there's a seniority-based hierarchy in NCAA in terms of ice time/usage, which often does not match the way players are selected in pro teams.

The fact that Locmelis is struggling in his rookie year does not worry me precisely because of that. And there's obviously a major difference between a 23 year old-senior and a 20 yo rookie.

No one's implying they're all NT-material.

But it is unwise to write off a player in his sophomore year who is somewhat productive. Blueger was scoring at a 0.65 PPG rate in his sophomore year and he is our best center and the only forward since Zoltoks who's actually being productive in the NHL.

I'm sure there are several future NT players among the 14. Marenis played in NCAA III. There's always a late bloomer hidden away somewhere.

Bringing them into the mix early is the way to go. There's no need to exaggerate it, but there's no reason to downplay it as a resource either.
 
I mean Lavins playing his freshman year is already ahead of him on the same team... Why do you have to white-knight every random prospect.. "Bringing them into the mix early" out of pure hope that he might be a massive late bloomer even though no signs would suggest it at the time is nothing but blind hope. And the best-case reward, once again, is that 5 years down the line you have a slight upgrade at 3C? If he is a massive outlier, like Marenis, call him up when he starts producing like one. I think he will be fine without some friendly international games on the 4th line.

Until then, why all this discourse using obviously much superior prospects, like Locmelis or Blugers, as somehow relevant examples? And again, why do you bring 14 players while we are discussing one specific case and out of 14, 3 have played for NT already and nobody is debating their merit. Or one to give Vitolins a look.

It's like you can't go 5 minutes without building a strawman.
 
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SoundAndFury said:
I mean Lavins playing his freshman year is already ahead of him on the same team... Why do you have to white-knight every random prospect.. "Bringing them into the mix early" out of pure hope that he might be a massive late bloomer even though no signs would suggest it at the time is nothing but blind hope. And the best-case reward, once again, is that 5 years down the line you have a slight upgrade at 3C? If he is a massive outlier, like Marenis, call him up when he starts producing like one. I think he will be fine without some friendly international games on the 4th line.

Until then, why all this discourse using obviously much superior prospects, like Locmelis or Blugers, as somehow relevant examples? And again, why do you bring 14 players again when we are discussing a one specific case and out of 14, 3 have played for NT already and nobody is debating their merit. Or one to give Vitolins a look.

It's like you can't go 5 minutes without building a strawman.
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I think you're confused.

I have never mentioned Skrastins in this thread. I have no idea what you're talking about, to be honest. What strawman?

Try to address a specific point if you don't agree with me.

In case my point flew over your head, an NCAA player aged 21, playing on the 3rd/2nd line with no or limited PP time, scoring at a 0.65 PPG pace, has the same or higher expected offensive rate of production as a 32 year old scoring at a 0.8 PPG rate in the Slovakian league on the 1st line/PP1.

This isn't about fairy dust and hope, it's about players close to their physical peak who are ready to contribute.

And, yes, we are talking about several minor improvements that can have a cascading effect on our depth in 2026, if none of this happens and they stay put in North America for the next couple of years.

I'm not sure why do you feel the need to argue about every single thing in such a dramatic way.
 
Namejs said:
I have never mentioned Skrastins in this thread.
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Yes. I did. This whole discourse started with you latching onto my reply to Eye of Ra regarding him. Everyone else seemed to understand it except for you writing multiple posts about the points nobody made. I have pointed it out to you:

SoundAndFury said:
That was directed at Skrastins who is nowhere near that statline, a midget (by hockey standards) and 22 already.
Click to expand...

And yet you are continuously going off on these tangents nobody is even arguing against. And then you call me confused... Follow the discussion and stop trying to make this into yet another of your pissing contests on the topic nobody is even challenging you.

Everyone (seemingly) agrees with your points about 0,65 PPG NCAA player yada yada. So "what strawman?". Well, this one. Too bad you are on your "oh boy am I right on this one" high to notice it.
 
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Vikz said:
Balcers - Abols - Daugavins
Jaks - Rubins

Tralmaks - Locmelis - Indrasis
Freibergs - Zile

Ri. Bukarts - Batna - Dzierkals
Cukste - Mamcics

Andersons - Marenis - Egle
Tumanovs - Bergmanis

Elvis
Gudlevskis
Click to expand...

This team lose.
 
Vikz said:
It has been the same for some time now. Dont see how this year is any different.

Bukarts and Kenins have not been a factor in the NT for like 4-5 years. Girgensons hasnt played in the WC for 7 years.

The main concerns for me are:
Abols, who is having a less than ideal year in Sweden;
Balinskis, who will not be available in the following years;
Silovs, who will probably stay in Vancouver for a long playoff run even if his AHL team does not make it far;
Punenovs, who managed to get relegated to the second swiss league.

Abols will still center our top line regardless of his club statistics, and Balinskis is somewhat compensated by Rubins, who will be available from the start.

Rihards playing average hockey in Czechia is still better than playing in Austria. He always plays above his level in the NT (same as Dzierkals), and I would bet he is a top 3 NT scorer even if he misses the club season completely. Balcers is having a great season in Switzerland. Indrasis and Daugavins are having fantastic seasons in Allswenskan and Slovakia, and those leagues are not that far behind from DEL, where they played last year. Batna doing great. Tralmaks doing great. Gudlevskis is playing out of his mind and will be our main goaltender if Elvis will need another restart or gets traded to a play off team, and Silovs stays in Vancouver in case of an emergency.

Balcers - Abols - Daugavins
Jaks - Rubins

Tralmaks - Locmelis - Indrasis
Freibergs - Zile

Ri. Bukarts - Batna - Dzierkals
Cukste - Mamcics

Andersons - Marenis - Egle
Tumanovs - Bergmanis

Elvis
Gudlevskis

Out of the NA, maybe Vitolins, Lavins or Veinbergs center the bottom lines, but I dont think they are better than Marenis, who can play C. Locmelis is here purely because of his previos NT experience, he is having an average season.

I would like to see Vilmanis and Fenenko in the mix, but Vitolins will go with the EU pros.
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Imo, Roberts Bukarts is going to still be in. He also finally started to get some points in Czechia too. And Kenins while dropped significantly in NL, is still a NL player. Also, based on his short trip to SL, he is still a PPG level player on that level, which is good enough for lower lines in NT. I wouldn't rule either of them out. Vitolins is also pretty conservative with his team selections, he isn't prone to experimenting that much so I would actually bet on him take them both.

With no NHL centers available, Batna is going to center the second line, Vitolins has already indicated that he wants to use him in an offensive role, which makes sense given his stats this season.

Did Vitolins ever use Marenis a center? If he hasn't, than I think he will look for other centers. Isn't Egle playing center in Slovakia? Dzerins also isn't playing any worse in Denmark than he did last year and that was enough to be called in.
 
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Dofs said:
Imo, Roberts Bukarts is going to still be in. He also finally started to get some points in Czechia too. And Kenins while dropped significantly in NL, is still a NL player. Also, based on his short trip to SL, he is still a PPG level player on that level, which is good enough for lower lines in NT. I wouldn't rule either of them out. Vitolins is also pretty conservative with his team selections, he isn't prone to experimenting that much so I would actually bet on him take them both.

With no NHL centers available, Batna is going to center the second line, Vitolins has already indicated that he wants to use him in an offensive role, which makes sense given his stats this season.

Did Vitolins ever use Marenis a center? If he hasn't, than I think he will look for other centers. Isn't Egle playing center in Slovakia? Dzerins also isn't playing any worse in Denmark than he did last year and that was enough to be called in.
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Yeah You are right about Bukarts. I actually had him in my lineup, despite saying that he has not been a factor. Then I noticed that I left someone out, started shuffling the lines and forgot about him. Will probably play on the third line with his brother.

Probably right about Batna too. Locmelis that high is just wishful thinking - I want to see more of one of our most promissing prospects. But Batna really is our second best European center and has earned the spot.

4th line centers are really interchangeable. It will depend on the production, friendly games, injuries and personal preferences of coaches. Not going to try and predict that. Just hope that out of all the mentioned ageing mediocracies, at least Dzerins is bad enough to finally retire from NT.
 
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Vikz said:
Yeah You are right about Bukarts. I actually had him in my lineup, despite saying that he has not been a factor. Then I noticed that I left someone out, started shuffling the lines and forgot about him. Will probably play on the third line with his brother.

Probably right about Batna too. Locmelis that high is just wishful thinking - I want to see more of one of our most promissing prospects. But Batna really is our second best European center and has earned the spot.

4th line centers are really interchangeable. It will depend on the production, friendly games, injuries and personal preferences of coaches. Not going to try and predict that. Just hope that out of all the mentioned ageing mediocracies, at least Dzerins is bad enough to finally retire from NT.
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Yeah, agree about Dzerins, I already winced last year when he made the team, though, admittedly, he wasn't that bad in it.
 
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Dofs said:
Isn't Egle playing center in Slovakia? Dzerins also isn't playing any worse in Denmark than he did last year and that was enough to be called in.
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He is but he may not be well suited for lower lines. Bicevskis is having a good a season in Austria. I realise nobody really wants him but when the competition is 100 year old Dzerins, might as well give him a look.
 
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SoundAndFury said:
He is but he may not be well suited for lower lines. Bicevskis is having a good a season in Austria. I realise nobody really wants him but when the competition is 100 year old Dzerins, might as well give him a look.
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I wouldn't mind trying Bicevskis too, even think it was weird for him being ignored while he was a center playing in Czechia before, but he also got the impression that no one wants him and retired from the national team last year.
 
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