Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season - Complete without a great title in keeping with the performance

[Blitzkrug]

Would be hilarious to see Yates end up back here when the majority of people probably forgot he was actually ever so briefly a Blue Jay before his arm exploded in 2021.

Bregman gets probably more than 27 million per year if i had to guess. Age is obviously a concern as it is with most FA deals but a lot of his advanced stats still look good, above average bat with great defense at the hot corner is hard to come by. Someone will absolutely pay up for it given in my opinion he's the best player on the market not named Juan Soto.

Santander personally is the guy i want. Switch hitter with legitimate pop but is 100% relegated to DH because lord knows he can't play any semblance of defense. I think i agree with the above though. Franco's prediction probably best suits the team going forward.

 

[tmlfan98]

As much as he wasn't great, I'm surprised they'll just let Cabrera go considering the state of the bullpen.

All 30 teams were in agreement on Cabrera not being worth his arb projection.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853629137199513849

 

[Discoverer]

All 30 teams were in agreement on Cabrera not being worth his arb projection.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853629137199513849

Ahhhh I didn't realize his arb projection was that high. Not that $2.5 is a game-changer or anything, but I guess at that point you're better off aiming higher and/or sticking with a league minimum guy like Little.

 

[Dr.Funk]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853799292261253578

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Puckstuff]

Let's say the Jays don't land Soto, but they still manage to allocate $50 million.

Instead, they sign Santander (3.3 fWAR), an okay starter—let's say Andrew Heaney (2.2 fWAR)—and a couple of relievers (1-2 fWAR).

That would likely be considered an excellent offseason. And yet, I still feel it might not be enough.

Is there anything outside of Soto this team could do to get back to the playoffs or is it Soto or bust?

I feel this team needs A LOT of additions this offseason to give themselves a chance in 2025. And we're going to need major bounce-back seasons from Bo, Kirk, Springer, etc., which I'm starting to lose faith in, tbh.

It's hard to see a path forward for this franchise outside of getting Soto, which seems unlikely.

 

[Bjindaho]

Let's say the Jays don't land Soto, but they still manage to allocate $50 million.

Instead, they sign Santander (3.3 fWAR), an okay starter—let's say Andrew Heaney (2.2 fWAR)—and a couple of relievers (1-2 fWAR).

That would likely be considered an excellent offseason. And yet, I still feel it might not be enough.

Is there anything outside of Soto this team could do to get back to the playoffs or is it Soto or bust?

I feel this team needs A LOT of additions this offseason to give themselves a chance in 2025. And we're going to need major bounce-back seasons from Bo, Kirk, Springer, etc., which I'm starting to lose faith in, tbh.

It's hard to see a path forward for this franchise outside of getting Soto, which seems unlikely.

Here's the thing...

if they land Soto, they land Soto plus 20-30M to spend.

If they don't land Soto, they MIGHT have 30-40M to spend. Given that they are idiotically jumping in the starter market (where a Kikuchi likely costs around 20M), that money doesn't go far when you basically need an entire bullpen.

 

[tmlfan98]

I have this weird feeling the Jays might just sign a LF and call it a day on the position player side. Probably either Jurickson Profar or Tyler O'Neill (both seem like the type of player this FO would want in LF) assuming they don't get Soto.

C Kirk
1B Vlad
2B Wagner platoon
3B Clement
SS Bichette
LF Profar/O'Neill
CF Varsho
RF Springer
DH Horwitz platoon

Bench would be Heineman (cheap backup C), Jimenez+Schneider as the weak side platoon compliments to Wagner+Horwitz, and 1 of Loperfido/Lukes as the backup CF.

Seems like the rest of the budget will be spent on a starter to push YRod down to the swingman role, and multiple bullpen arms.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Let's say the Jays don't land Soto, but they still manage to allocate $50 million.

Instead, they sign Santander (3.3 fWAR), an okay starter—let's say Andrew Heaney (2.2 fWAR)—and a couple of relievers (1-2 fWAR).

That would likely be considered an excellent offseason. And yet, I still feel it might not be enough.

Is there anything outside of Soto this team could do to get back to the playoffs or is it Soto or bust?

I feel this team needs A LOT of additions this offseason to give themselves a chance in 2025. And we're going to need major bounce-back seasons from Bo, Kirk, Springer, etc., which I'm starting to lose faith in, tbh.

It's hard to see a path forward for this franchise outside of getting Soto, which seems unlikely.

I don’t know, man, if you just want to contend for a playoff spot the above might be enough. I mean, we had teams like KC and Detroit make the playoffs this season. It doesn’t take that much to contend for a playoff spot. We can win 85-88 with that. Why not? If you have championship aspirations, yea, that might be tough. Bottom line, Shapiro and Atkins have to go. They have a done a poor job during this “window”.

I do see Bo bouncing back. Why would a young talented player all of a sudden lose it? He was consistently .800 ops bat ever since he made his debut. Last season was an aberration till proven otherwise.

 

[Bjindaho]

I don’t know, man, if you just want to contend for a playoff spot the above might be enough. I mean, we had teams like KC and Detroit make the playoffs this season. It doesn’t take that much to contend for a playoff spot. We can win 85-88 with that. Why not? If you have championship aspirations, yea, that might be tough. Bottom line, Shapiro and Atkins have to go. They have a done a poor job during this “window”.

I do see Bo bouncing back. Why would a young talented player all of a sudden lose it? He was consistently .800 ops bat ever since he made his debut. Last season was an aberration till proven otherwise.

The idea that management wants to cap spending at around 240M with more than 80 of that on pitching is asinine.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Let's say the Jays don't land Soto, but they still manage to allocate $50 million.

Instead, they sign Santander (3.3 fWAR), an okay starter—let's say Andrew Heaney (2.2 fWAR)—and a couple of relievers (1-2 fWAR).

That would likely be considered an excellent offseason. And yet, I still feel it might not be enough.

Is there anything outside of Soto this team could do to get back to the playoffs or is it Soto or bust?

I feel this team needs A LOT of additions this offseason to give themselves a chance in 2025. And we're going to need major bounce-back seasons from Bo, Kirk, Springer, etc., which I'm starting to lose faith in, tbh.

It's hard to see a path forward for this franchise outside of getting Soto, which seems unlikely.

Not at all.

The Jays offense was obviously horrendous but it'll automatically be better going into 2025 since it'll have a healthy, refocused Bo Bichette. Bo has been too consistent since being called up where i just assume that was a weird nightmare season brought on by factors out of his control. Soto would obviously be nice, but there's plenty of guys they could add that would be a net positive and put this team back in the playoff conversation.

And that's not even taking into account all the other guys they have looking to carve out a spot. If any of Wagner, Barger, Jimenez or even a Horowitz can take a step forward could make a big difference too.

Pitching took a step back but maybe i'm bullish, but i don't think that's an indicator of how they'll be going forward. Yes, Gausman sucked for most of the year but it does feel like a lot of people forgot he missed the entirety of spring training. Once he was truly in the groove he looked like himself down the stretch. Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt is still in the upper half of the league for a rotation.

 

[Discoverer]

Let's say the Jays don't land Soto, but they still manage to allocate $50 million.

Instead, they sign Santander (3.3 fWAR), an okay starter—let's say Andrew Heaney (2.2 fWAR)—and a couple of relievers (1-2 fWAR).

That would likely be considered an excellent offseason. And yet, I still feel it might not be enough.

Is there anything outside of Soto this team could do to get back to the playoffs or is it Soto or bust?

I feel this team needs A LOT of additions this offseason to give themselves a chance in 2025. And we're going to need major bounce-back seasons from Bo, Kirk, Springer, etc., which I'm starting to lose faith in, tbh.

It's hard to see a path forward for this franchise outside of getting Soto, which seems unlikely.

With the playoff structure the way it is now, that's easily enough to contend for a playoff spot.

Last year, the offense was below average, the starters were around average as a group, and the defense was obviously elite. The bullpen was by far the biggest problem for the team, as it was one of the worst we've ever seen.

Add one of the good-but-not-Soto bats (like Santander) and the lineup is probably a little above average. Get a bounceback from one of Bo/Springer/Kirk, and it's a really solid lineup.

The key will be how they rebuild the pen and how Romano rebounds after last year. One bat and a good pen (which will probably take some creative moves) gets them close to where they want to be.

 

[Kurtz]

I have this weird feeling the Jays might just sign a LF and call it a day on the position player side. Probably either Jurickson Profar or Tyler O'Neill (both seem like the type of player this FO would want in LF) assuming they don't get Soto.

C Kirk
1B Vlad
2B Wagner platoon
3B Clement
SS Bichette
LF Profar/O'Neill
CF Varsho
RF Springer
DH Horwitz platoon

Bench would be Heineman (cheap backup C), Jimenez+Schneider as the weak side platoon compliments to Wagner+Horwitz, and 1 of Loperfido/Lukes as the backup CF.

Seems like the rest of the budget will be spent on a starter to push YRod down to the swingman role, and multiple bullpen arms.

I don't know what the projected number on him is, but Tyler O'Neill makes the most sense to me as a UFA.

 

[Puckstuff]

With the playoff structure the way it is now, that's easily enough to contend for a playoff spot.

Last year, the offense was below average, the starters were around average as a group, and the defense was obviously elite. The bullpen was by far the biggest problem for the team, as it was one of the worst we've ever seen.

Add one of the good-but-not-Soto bats (like Santander) and the lineup is probably a little above average. Get a bounceback from one of Bo/Springer/Kirk, and it's a really solid lineup.

The key will be how they rebuild the pen and how Romano rebounds after last year. One bat and a good pen (which will probably take some creative moves) gets them close to where they want to be.

I'd be fine with going cheap on starting pitching and putting most of it into the bullpen and a bat. Maybe run it back with Yarborough/Rodriguez as the #5 (if Yarborough is willing). Then pick up a Santander type bat and restructure the bullpen. Then, as you say, hope for a rebound from some internal guys. I'm not overly confident that will be enough, but maybe it gives them a chance rather than folding on the year

 

[Puckstuff]

Here's the thing...

if they land Soto, they land Soto plus 20-30M to spend.

If they don't land Soto, they MIGHT have 30-40M to spend. Given that they are idiotically jumping in the starter market (where a Kikuchi likely costs around 20M), that money doesn't go far when you basically need an entire bullpen.

Yeah if they spend big on a starter, it will really limit what they can do with the bullpen. A good bat + bullpen should be the top priorities imo.

 

[Discoverer]

I don't know what the projected number on him is, but Tyler O'Neill makes the most sense to me as a UFA.

My problem with O'Neill is that someone is going to pay him to play every day when he's really more of a small-side platoon bat. He's not a disaster against righties - around 90 wRC+ against them each of the last three years - but he's more of a below-average regular in the platoon while being elite against lefties.

 

[Kurtz]

My problem with O'Neill is that someone is going to pay him to play every day when he's really more of a small-side platoon bat. He's not a disaster against righties - around 90 wRC+ against them each of the last three years - but he's more of a below-average regular in the platoon while being elite against lefties.

I know his splits are significant but I don't think that makes him a platoon guy tbh. Career 1600 PAs against righties, .751 OPS. Career 500 PAs vs lefties .923 OPS. That's a guy who plays every day imo.

 

[tmlfan98]

Per Ross Atkins himself, Bichette is basically untouchable.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853918830088908878

 

[Blitzkrug]

Per Ross Atkins himself, Bichette is basically untouchable.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853918830088908878

Makes sense.

Go into the season expecting a bounceback/return to the playoffs.

If that doesn't work out and you're legitimately out of the picture by after the all-star break, then you probably reconsider heading into the deadline.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Tony Romo]

Makes sense.

Go into the season expecting a bounceback/return to the playoffs.

If that doesn't work out and you're legitimately out of the picture by after the all-star break, then you probably reconsider heading into the deadline.

Nothing wrong with that.

That and probably can’t say you’re openly going after Juan Soto while talking about trading your 2nd best player unless it’s mlb player for mlb player trade similar to the acuna one that was rumoured a couple years ago

 

[weems]

What kind of contract will Santander get?

His power ability from both sides would really help our lineup.

 

[Ale Brew]

What kind of contract will Santander get?

His power ability from both sides would really help our lineup.

I’ve seen him projected at 4-5 years with an AAV between $20-25M.

 

[tmlfan98]

Adding a backup catcher not a priority for the team. The "Jays are comfortable with Heineman as backup" rumours were real.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853980326910996622

 

[Discoverer]

Adding a backup catcher not a priority for the team. The "Jays are comfortable with Heineman as backup" rumours were real.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1853980326910996622

That's been super obvious for a while. A better backup catcher would be nice, but it's like... the 7th most important thing they need to do this offseason. It would be concerning if they said it WAS a priority.

 

[Discoverer]

I know his splits are significant but I don't think that makes him a platoon guy tbh. Career 1600 PAs against righties, .751 OPS. Career 500 PAs vs lefties .923 OPS. That's a guy who plays every day imo.

Maybe he's still capable of finding some consistency against righties, but he's been below .700 in the split each of the last three years.

If he's the second bat they add, then sure. But they need an impact bat, and he's absolutely not that against righties.