Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season - Complete without a great title in keeping with the performance

[trellaine201]

Vladdy was f***ing garbage most of the season when we needed him.

He’s been great since the jays have been a bottom feeder and had nothing to play for.

Always question players who are good when games don’t matter when that same player sucks when games do matter

Agreed. I would be very hesitant to hand him the keys. Make a fair offer. If he is looking for more cya. I am not sold on him at all.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yea, there is something to be said about Vladdy and Springer figuring their shit out when the season was pretty much done. If they hit like this from the beginning, maybe our season would still be alive.

 

[horner]

He comes from money, why would he sign a long-term deal at a discount coming off his worst ever season last offseason, when he had two more full seasons to recoup his value?

Him and Bo aren't guys who came from nothing that you can maybe swindle into a long-term deal "to get paid now" which ends up being team-friendly in respect to what they would get had they held out for the free market. It is very obvious that both are willing to risk going into free agency and have priced themselves under that basis.

This is going to be a dicey decision either way. The facts are this: Pujols and Votto are the only two 1B/DH players who have received 10+ year contracts in MLB history. Both were much older than Vlad will be when they signed their deals, but both were also considerably more accomplished/proven hitters (Pujols had enough career WAR to guarantee a HOF induction before he even signed with the Angels).

A 10+ year deal for Vlad at the AAV he is holding out for only makes any sense if he maintains his current level of hitter. He isn't worth it if he drops back down to a 120-130 wRC+ hitter. And that is the scary part: he now has 2 elite seasons out of 6 seasons total. So are you signing an elite hitter who has finally figured it out, or are you signing a guy who is going to break again at some point? He hasn't shown to be a hitter who has a consistent swing. He has no defensive or baserunning value (he is way negative in both) so you need to be dead certain on his bat. And this is why 1B/DH types don't get these 10+ year contracts.

He shows up when the pressure is off

 

[HockeyThoughts]

Yea, there is something to be said about Vladdy and Springer figuring their shit out when the season was pretty much done. If they hit like this from the beginning, maybe our season would still be alive.

Blaming Vladdy, who by every metric has indisputably been our best player all season long (and one of the best in baseball) for the team's struggles is just asinine.

Look no further than his running mate Bo, if you'd like someone to blame. With that said, it's obvious this team has more issues than one or two players would have solved.

 

[saska sault]

I dont get the Vlad grief. He is having a good year, says he wants to be here, is young and is entering his prime years. Is he flawless? No. Yes he did in a sense go on a hot streak when the year was essentially over but regardless. He is a positive piece to have, if he has reasonable asking price you sign him long term. He does have a special ability to absolutely crush a baseball, no one can deny that. He has extended streaks of doing that on a elite level, thats a worthy gamble. Fans need to stop worrying about Rogers money if its about keeping home grown talent. If there is only one nice thing left over after this contention window dried up for the time being.. let it be Vlad. Someone is going to pay him if Toronto doesnt. Id much rather see his career unfold on a team I cheer for.

 

[tmlfan98]

Blaming Vladdy, who by every metric has indisputably been our best player all season long (and one of the best in baseball) for the team's struggles is just asinine.

Look no further than his running mate Bo, if you'd like someone to blame. With that said, it's obvious this team has more issues than one or two players would have solved.

Vlad has only 2.1 fWAR in 449 PAs this season. Varsho also has 2.1, in just 356 PAs. IKF has 2 fWAR in 281 PAs. Among all qualified players he ranks only 52nd in fWAR.

When the facts are that Daulton Varsho and Isiah Kiner-Falefa are out pacing you in fWAR, it cannot be said that Vlad has been the team's undisputed best player all season long lol.

 

[canucksfan]

Blaming Vladdy, who by every metric has indisputably been our best player all season long (and one of the best in baseball) for the team's struggles is just asinine.

Look no further than his running mate Bo, if you'd like someone to blame. With that said, it's obvious this team has more issues than one or two players would have solved.

Just to add, Vladdy says he wants to be in Toronto and likes it. On the other hand, Bo was been horrendous this year and has given hints he can't wait for free agency.

 

[Discoverer]

Yea, there is something to be said about Vladdy and Springer figuring their shit out when the season was pretty much done. If they hit like this from the beginning, maybe our season would still be alive.

This is a reeeeeally dumb narrative. Vladdy turned his season around before the end of April. He hit .357 with a 165 wRC+ in May. He had a shitty few weeks and has dominated ever since.

 

[Eyedea]

Vlad has only 2.1 fWAR in 449 PAs this season. Varsho also has 2.1, in just 356 PAs. IKF has 2 fWAR in 281 PAs. Among all qualified players he ranks only 52nd in fWAR.

When the facts are that Daulton Varsho and Isiah Kiner-Falefa are out pacing you in fWAR, it cannot be said that Vlad has been the team's undisputed best player all season long lol.

Unfortunately, not only does he get dinged on positional value, but Vladdy’s also rated the worst 1B defender by OAA. He’s a top 15 hitter though and still grades as a top 4 1B. It’s just Harper, Freeman, and Walker are well above him in value due to their defence.

 

[tmlfan98]

Unfortunately, not only does he get dinged on positional value, but Vladdy’s also rated the worst 1B defender by OAA. He’s a top 15 hitter though and still grades as a top 4 1B. It’s just Harper, Freeman, and Walker are well above him in value due to their defence.

Oh trust me, I've been on the "Vlad is a garbage 1B defensively" train for so long that I may have actually been the first passenger lol. He is so bad defensively at 1B that his fWAR output would get an automatic boost by moving to DH even though DH gets dinged more than 1B.

This has been the case since the 2022 season, yet somehow most Jays fans only remember the gold glove he won that same season, and think that must mean he's a good defender. That gold glove he won made him become permanently overrated defensively.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Blaming Vladdy, who by every metric has indisputably been our best player all season long (and one of the best in baseball) for the team's struggles is just asinine.

Look no further than his running mate Bo, if you'd like someone to blame. With that said, it's obvious this team has more issues than one or two players would have solved.

Wasn't blaming Vladdy, just ruminating on what might have been. We all wish our season would have turned out different.

 

[Roo]

Just get rid of Atkins and Shapiro pls. As much as we rag on the leafs brass, these two guys have been so much worse, it’s pathetic really.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[WeThreeKings]

Nothing can help this 2025 team. The f***ing delusion of Shatkins is almost impressive

 

[Puckstuff]

Yea, there is something to be said about Vladdy and Springer figuring their shit out when the season was pretty much done. If they hit like this from the beginning, maybe our season would still be alive.

I agree on Springer, not Vlad.

Half a season of good production from Springer isn't good enough.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Vladdy shearing off those dreadlocks is what really woke him up I think.

His before and after numbers are pretty telling. Plus he looks to be in much better shape now.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Dr Pepper]

Is Romano back any time soon? With Garcia and Pearson already gone, we'd be looking at a Pop/Cabrera closer tandem.

 

[phillipmike]

https://www.mlb.com/news/bold-predictions-for-2024-mlb-trade-deadline

Vladimir Guerrero Jr. will go to the Mariners
Seattle president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto has to be feeling the heat after this team, with an elite rotation, squandered a 10-game division lead faster than you can say, “We’re going to win 54% of the time.” You just know that if Dealin’ Dipoto is gonna go down, he’s gonna go down swapping!

Arozarena is aboard, but -- with Julio Rodríguez banged up and underperforming and multiple 33-year-olds named Mitch (Garver and Haniger) batting around .200 -- the Mariners STILL sorely need offense. They made the Arozarena deal without dealing catching prospect Harry Ford or any of their coveted middle-infield prospects (Cole Young, Colt Emerson and Felnin Celesten). They can swing a Guerrero deal.

The Blue Jays have been adamant publicly about not dealing Guerrero and signaling a rebuild, but they haven’t been able to win with him, and their outlook for 2025 (his last year of control) looks dim. A Deadline short on impact bats is a good time for them to come to their senses and get value back for Vladdy Jr.

Morosi was on the Fan this morning and said the M's are desperate for Vlad. Reiterated Divish's report that Ford and Young/Emerson would get the Jays thinking but ultimately wouldnt be enough. Says the Mariners made offers for Vlad but the opted to make the Garcia deal and revisit the Vlad deal closer to the deadline to see if the Jays budge.

Give me one of Bryce Miller or Bryan Woo along with top prospects Montes, and Celesten. If they are still desperate, give us Ford and we can give more back; IKF, and pay some of Springer's salary and send him back. Maybe Turner too.

Yusei Kikuchi will go to the Cardinals
Kikuchi is a starting pitcher entering his mid-30s, so he belongs on the Cardinals.

I wouldnt mind Chase Davis or Cooper Hjerpe. Maybe another prospect if the bidding gets high.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I wouldnt mind Chase Davis or Cooper Hjerpe. Maybe another prospect if the bidding gets high.

Headline: Jays Get Hjerpe

I wouldn't mind getting Jimmy Crooks either. Lefty-hitting catcher who's solid defensively and a has an improving stick. Older and already in AA. Could be a nice tandem/platoon partner for Kirk. Currently hitting. 304/.402/.463 with 6 homeruns with a 32/58 strikeout-to-walk ratio as a 23-year-old in AA.

Scouting grades: Hit: 45 | Power: 45 | Run: 30 | Arm: 55 | Field: 55 | Overall: 45

A junior-college transfer, Crooks showed impressive defensive improvements over his two seasons at Oklahoma, enough to vault him to MLB Pipeline’s No. 151 prospect ranking in the 2022 Draft class. After helping the Sooners reach the College World Series finals, he went to the Cardinals in the fourth round and signed for exact slot at $470,300. Crooks slashed .271/.358/.433 with 12 homers over 114 games for High-A Peoria during his first full season and ended the campaign with a one-game cameo at Triple-A Memphis and a more extended stay in the Arizona Fall League, where fatigue might have set in.

Looking like an old-school, rough-handed backstop in the box with no batting gloves, the left-handed slugger has a discerning eye at the plate but rough splits against fellow southpaws, hitting just .207 with a .261 slugging percentage against them in 2023. He relies on strength more than bat speed to generate average raw power but will likely be a 10-12-homer threat moving forward as he faces more advanced arms.

Crooks’ best work continues to be behind the plate as he carried his defensive gains into pro ball as a solid receiver and blocker behind the dish. He’s become a favorite to throw to among Cardinals pitchers. The former Sooner has the pure arm strength and improved throwing mechanics to give runners pause, adding another above-average skill to his defensive bag. Crooks just needs to continue his current path of development to meet his floor as a solid all-around backup catcher.

 

[canucksfan]

Jays have a few more days to sign Yesavage. Surprised they haven't signed him yet. Management has done an excellent job at signing their players.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1817932844238549482

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Cardinals, Twins, and Brewers are the teams being connected to Kikuchi.

 

[aingefan]

Is Romano back any time soon? With Garcia and Pearson already gone, we'd be looking at a Pop/Cabrera closer tandem.

All the better for next years first. Plus, some AAA guys can get some innings.
Early reports say the top of the ‘25 draft has some pretty crazy upside bats.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Texas is selling? They just traded Lorenzen to the Royals.

 

[canucksfan]

https://www.mlb.com/news/bold-predictions-for-2024-mlb-trade-deadline

Morosi was on the Fan this morning and said the M's are desperate for Vlad. Reiterated Divish's report that Ford and Young/Emerson would get the Jays thinking but ultimately wouldnt be enough. Says the Mariners made offers for Vlad but the opted to make the Garcia deal and revisit the Vlad deal closer to the deadline to see if the Jays budge.

Give me one of Bryce Miller or Bryan Woo along with top prospects Montes, and Celesten. If they are still desperate, give us Ford and we can give more back; IKF, and pay some of Springer's salary and send him back. Maybe Turner too.



I wouldnt mind Chase Davis or Cooper Hjerpe. Maybe another prospect if the bidding gets high.

I would like the Jays to sign Vladdy, but if he's asking too much, they should trade him now. Probably would get the best value for him now rather than the offseason or trade deadline. If that's the case should trade Bassitt, Green, and IFK as well. Bo in the offseason. Next season would be rough but in 2026 the team would be on the upswing.