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Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season - Complete without a great title in keeping with the performance

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MS said:
More than any of the things that have actually happened - the bad offseason, or Mattingly and the hitting, or the Springer contract - the biggest failure/problem/issue at the present time is their failure to lock down their superstar players to contract extensions.

This is elementary in today's MLB (and you see a team like Milwaukee locking down their #1 prospect for a decade before he plays an MLB game) and somehow they've let Guerrero/Bichette dangle on short-term deals right up until the point where they can now basically force their way out in the offseason.

If you know you have your stars locked up, this season is just a mis-step. Fire the GM, make a couple big moves, go again. But now we're looking at selling off a bunch of assets at the trade deadline and why in the hell would Bichette/Guerrero want to re-sign this winter coming off a 70-win season knowing that they're a few months away from monster contract offers from competitive teams? And if that's where we're at, it's total rebuild time. And if that's where we're at, Shapiro needs to go to because that falls on him. To be in this position, or even to have a sniff of being in this position given where the team was at in 2022 is inexcusable.
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Locking yourself up into the wrong core is how you become the Leafs. At this point, I don’t mind if they trade both Bo and Vladdy. They are not even worth big extensions. Maybe it was smart not locking them up after what we have seen this season?
 
Suntouchable13 said:
Locking yourself up into the wrong core is how you become the Leafs. At this point, I don’t mind if they trade both Bo and Vladdy. They are not even worth big extensions. Maybe it was smart not locking them up after what we have seen this season?
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Both are absolutely worth big extensions, Bichette's bad start to this season not withstanding.

Bichette had averaged 5+ WAR/162 coming into this season and, for all the Guerrero angst, this is the list of players younger than Guerrero with a better OPS than Guerrero this year :

Gunnar Henderson
Bobby Witt Jr.
Riley Greene

Like, if Guerrero isn't worth a big extension, who is?
 
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MS said:
Both are absolutely worth big extensions, Bichette's bad start to this season not withstanding.

Bichette had averaged 5+ WAR/162 coming into this season and, for all the Guerrero angst, this is the list of players younger than Guerrero with a better OPS than Guerrero this year :

Gunnar Henderson
Bobby Witt Jr.
Riley Greene

Like, if Guerrero isn't worth a big extension, who is?
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You make valid points. I am just disappointed in both of them and how they are leading the team. Bo was all about wanting to prove doubters wrong this season, but he is OPSing 620 on the season. What the hell? Vladdy is supposed to slug, but his OPS is barely above .800. Swept in the playoffs 2 straight years. I am a little gun shy about locking them up to big extensions. But I get what you are saying. I want this season just to be just a misstep, but I am just not sure about these 2 guys.
 
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Suntouchable13 said:
You make valid points. I am just disappointed in both of them and how they are leading the team. Bo was all about wanting to prove doubters wrong this season, but he is OPSing 620 on the season. What the hell? Vladdy is supposed to slug, but his OPS is barely above .800. Swept in the playoffs 2 straight years. I am a little gun shy about locking them up to big extensions. But I get what you are saying. I want this season just to be just a misstep, but I am just not sure about these 2 guys.
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I've been really, really impressed by Guerrero this season. I think he has been a leader. Defensive play has been great, approach at the plate has been great ... it's just the elevation thing and that's started to come around.

Bichette has been a mess. But it's probably just a blip in the bigger picture.

These are excellent players. You don't throw them away.
 
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MK78 said:
Good lord, i just heard Ross Atkins on Blair & Barker... he just keeps saying stuff yet it seems like he says nothing at all...
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His appearance on OverDrive was even worse. His response to their question about Bo's comments about a possible trade to Hazel Mae was shockingly bad, even for him.
 
Blue Jays spiraling toward trade deadline about-face that could impact stars - The New York Post

The Blue Jays were intending to buy but may need to face reality at 36-43 with a minus 56-run differential.

It would take guts to sell big considering fans in that major market were hoping to see Shohei Ohtani (or Juan Soto) in a Jays uniform. But it may be advisable now. (The Jays understand time is short, but they aren’t ready to make the sell call yet.)

They should be better than this, but offensively they have issues. They lost Marcus Semien and Teoscar Hernandez, and also came up well short in an under-the-radar effort to sign Corey Seager before he went to Texas.

They aren’t going to want to trade Bo Bichette and Vlad Guerrero Jr. with both having another year to go before free agency. But word is, past long-term negotiations with both stars never came close to agreement. And folks who know the pair believe the Jays have little to no chance to lock up Bichette, and maybe only a slightly better chance with Guerrero.

Bichette has more value now to the Dodgers; Guerrero to the Mariners, Astros, Pirates and others.

Free agent to be Yusei Kikuchi is probably a more likely trade candidate, along with Yimi Garcia. And rival teams would love to see Chris Bassitt out there, too.

If they pay deals down, Isiah Kiner-Falefa, Kevin Kiermaier and Justin Turner are tradeable, too.
 
The Jays will be sellers this year, but not the sellers everyone thinks.

With the core pitching staff still under control for at least a couple years between them, and the Jays history for stretching things out, they will likely be looking to fill in holes for next year rather than this year. Kikuchi is likely gone, and guys like Pearson will be going too. Expect the Jays to target high AAA types who have been struggling to get a shot with their teams or high risk, high reward types in need of MLB experience. Turn this into a training year for young guys, although given how much of the turnover will likely come from the bullpen, it probably won't work out too well.

If the Jays are still struggling NEXT year...then yeah, expect a purge.
 
What happened to Vladdy? He’s gone from a slap hitting elite discipline guy to a HR masher. Month to month his May/June are statistically comparable in terms of wRC+ but he’s doing it in completely different ways.
 
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Eyedea said:
What happened to Vladdy? He’s gone from a slap hitting elite discipline guy to a HR masher. Month to month his May/June are statistically comparable in terms of wRC+ but he’s doing it in completely different ways.
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Maybe it dawned on him that if he wants the max dollar contract, he better start hitting bombs out of the park again.
 
Eyedea said:
I don’t think that’s how it works
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You don't think he'll get paid more if he hits 35HR+, 95RBI+, .900OPS+ vs 15HR (thats what he was on pace for and about 70RBI and .700OPS

You bet your ass he would.
 
MK78 said:
You don't think he'll get paid more if he hits 35HR+, 95RBI+, .900OPS+ vs 15HR (thats what he was on pace for and about 70RBI and .700OPS

You bet your ass he would.
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I don’t think he thought “I’m losing money” and decided to hit home runs again.

I also remember him hitting over .300 at one point in May with a wRC+ around the same ballpark as it is right this second (~140 ish). The premise of my post was that it’s so interesting that his profile just miraculously changed month to month from May to June from being a high average/OBP guy with limited power to now having a ball leave the yard practically every game and not taking walks anymore. Both May and June see him with 160+ wRC+ despite doing so in two completely different ways.
 
MK78 said:
Good lord, i just heard Ross Atkins on Blair & Barker... he just keeps saying stuff yet it seems like he says nothing at all...
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That's your first problem. Listening to Blair and Hazel Maye's Hillbilly.

May as well tie their hands from here on out and gut the front office and send Schneider packing in the off season. Hire some competent people in these positions because Curly, Larry and Moe need to go. Ask Barb Bichette or actually tell him to move to 2B. He's a weak SS. Need some fresh eyes in there. Anglebert needs to be shot out of a cannon. They traded the wrong catcher. Anglepuke is a disgrace to the game considering where he came from. Be more grateful. They have money but it might be time to cut Springer loose or limit his ABs to 400 next year. Davis Schneider and Varshoe neeed to play, albeit down the lineup.

f*** I'd hire Gibby back as a manager. Mattingly doesn't seem like he's all that interested in being a skip again. Shoot Manoah out of a cannon, as well as Bowser Francis, and let Kiluchi go. They still have three solid starters and lock down Vlad. I'm not sure about Bichette, yet. I think everyone thought they didn't do near enough in the off season.

Alex Anthopolous wasn't such a moron. Braves look ok.
 
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