Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season (better title pending or maybe not ... )

[canucksfan]

Rays are smart. They will turn it around quite easily. Jays should be doing this. IFK, Green, Bassitt/Gausman should be traded if they can get good value for them. Trying to compete in 2025 is dumb.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1817569376674951174

 

[Discoverer]

Rays are smart. They will turn it around quite easily. Jays should be doing this. IFK, Green, Bassitt/Gausman should be traded if they can get good value for them. Trying to compete in 2025 is dumb.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1817569376674951174

That's basically what the Jays have been doing so far. Unfortunately they don't really have a guy like Adam (been good for a while, having a strong season, multiple years of control).

 

[GoonieFace]

He's a fantastic defensive catcher.

Define fantastic?

 

[canucksfan]

That's basically what the Jays have been doing so far. Unfortunately they don't really have a guy like Adam (been good for a while, having a strong season, multiple years of control).

They have trading guys that are free agents at the end of this year. They need to trade some of their contracts beyond this season such as Bassitt, Gausman, IFK, and Green. Bassitt and Gausman could get a very good return. Not sure I would trade both of them but if they could get a good return for one of them, it would help the retool.

 

[Nineteen67]

They have trading guys that are free agents at the end of this year. They need to trade some of their contracts beyond this season such as Bassitt, Gausman, IFK, and Green. Bassitt and Gausman could get a very good return. Not sure I would trade both of them but if they could get a good return for one of them, it would help the retool.

Are they better to trade now or wait until the winter?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

He's a fantastic defensive catcher.

"Fantastic" is probably pushing it. He's solid to good at best.

He can't throw worth a shit (career 21% caught stealing percentage). He's accumulated only 6 DRS over 7 seasons in the MLB, ranking him in the bottom decile. For his career he's ranked 15th in defensive value, and 32nd in framing among catchers who've accumulated at least 1000 innings in that span.

The constant overrating of Jansen on this forum never ceases to amuse me. lol

 

[metafour]

He's a fantastic defensive catcher.

According to Statcast:

Blocks Above Average: 98th percentile (+11, Elite)
CS Above Avg: 17th percentile (-3, Bad)
Framing: 36th percentile (-1, Below Average)
Pop Time: 23rd percentile (Bad)

 

[shaner8989]

Atkins proving how f***ing pathetic he is. Fail after fail with everything he does. Trades, drafting and everything between. Full f***ing loser.

Tampa is awesome. I love how they operate.

Bassit Gausman IKF should all be dealt before they have zero f***ing value next year. Next year we’re gonna say….. that’s a weak return for them…. Should have dealt them last year.

 

[canucksfan]

Are they better to trade now or wait until the winter?

It depends. We don't know what offers they are getting for those players. I would think they would get more now. A lot of teams are trying to compete and very few teams are selling. Teams also get 1.5 years of the player(s). Bassitt is healthy and doing fairly well but he's getting up there. His value could be worse next year. I doubt it gets better.

The team needs to think beyond 2025. Trying to compete next year doesn't make much sense to me as I outlined in my post a few pages ago.

 

[Suntouchable13]

None of these moves move the needle for us at all in 2025 or beyond. If one of these prospects becomes a bench player that would be a success.

 

[GoonieFace]

Atkins proving how f***ing pathetic he is. Fail after fail with everything he does. Trades, drafting and everything between. Full f***ing loser.

Tampa is awesome. I love how they operate.

Bassit Gausman IKF should all be dealt before they have zero f***ing value next year. Next year we’re gonna say….. that’s a weak return for them…. Should have dealt them last year.

I guess you have inside info on their value right now and in the future?

 

[habamillions]

Are they better to trade now or wait until the winter?

Definitely now as you get 2 playoff runs instead of 1

 

[Nineteen67]

It depends. We don't know what offers they are getting for those players. I would think they would get more now. A lot of teams are trying to compete and very few teams are selling. Teams also get 1.5 years of the player(s). Bassitt is healthy and doing fairly well but he's getting up there. His value could be worse next year. I doubt it gets better.

The team needs to think beyond 2025. Trying to compete next year doesn't make much sense to me as I outlined in my post a few pages ago.

I agree, you might get someone to overpay now.

They need to look beyond next year, otherwise they’re just delaying the inevitable.

 

[shaner8989]

I guess you have inside info on their value right now and in the future?

We’re seeing how little we’re getting for UFAs. Gotta trade guys who have control to get optimal return. Nobody pays premiums for half a season of a rental.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Rays are smart. They will turn it around quite easily. Jays should be doing this. IFK, Green, Bassitt/Gausman should be traded if they can get good value for them. Trying to compete in 2025 is dumb.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1817569376674951174

Holy shit, that's a haul.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

 

[Discoverer]

"Fantastic" is probably pushing it. He's solid to good at best.

He can't throw worth a shit (career 21% caught stealing percentage). He's accumulated only 6 DRS over 7 seasons in the MLB, ranking him in the bottom decile. For his career he's ranked 15th in defensive value, and 32nd in framing among catchers who've accumulated at least 1000 innings in that span.

The constant overrating of Jansen on this forum never ceases to amuse me. lol

View attachment 897532

Yeah, fair... I guess I mixed up his framing with Kirk's in my head. Elite blocker, average framer, below average thrower. Kirk is an elite defender, Jansen is just good.

Still, this comes off as a little smug for someone who used to give regular updates on how much Jansen sucks.

 

[GoonieFace]

We’re seeing how little we’re getting for UFAs. Gotta trade guys who have control to get optimal return. Nobody pays premiums for half a season of a rental.

Also can work the other way. If a player still has term at decent money, teams may want to wait. I am sure they are open to moving anyone if the right offer is there.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Holy shit, that's a haul.

It's a overated haul

Lesko is wild. Most likely busts or ends up as a reliever.
Homer jr doesn't have much pop and will be 23 soon.

 

[metafour]

Holy shit, that's a haul.

Is it? Lesko looks like MiLB Nate Pearson. He is still being propped up by draft status and "stuff". He is almost 21 in A+ ball and has shown no ability to throw strikes whatsoever. It's not like he is even trending up this season; his last 3 starts have been garbage: 14 IP, 15 ER, 3 HR, 11 BB, 17 K.

Homer Bush Jr. isn't anything. 110 wRC+ in A+ ball at almost 23 years old while repeating the level.

Of course its the Rays so they will magically fix Lesko, but if he wasn't "the best HS pitcher" in 2022 he'd be a big nothingburger by now.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Yeah, fair... I guess I mixed up his framing with Kirk's in my head. Elite blocker, average framer, below average thrower. Kirk is an elite defender, Jansen is just good.

Still, this comes off as a little smug for someone who used to give regular updates on how much Jansen sucks.

That's pretty rich considering the shit I've had to take from you especially for not slobbering over Jansen over the years.

I've never said Jansen sucks. I've looked back on my post history just now and I've literally never said those words. I've always considered him about average. Pointing out that people were vastly overrating him as a player is not saying he sucks. He's never actually played enough games in a season to qualify, but the most WAR he's ever put up in a season is 2.7 (which is average everyday player terroritory). But the way some people talk about him on this board you'd think he was Buster Posey.

 

[trellaine201]

We’re seeing how little we’re getting for UFAs. Gotta trade guys who have control to get optimal return. Nobody pays premiums for half a season of a rental.

I agree trade those pitchers with an extra year on their contracts!!! More value since they should provide 2 playoff runs for whoever acquires them. There getting older as well.

 

[Discoverer]

But the way some people talk about him on this board you'd think he was Buster Posey.

I don't think you'll find any of those posts anywhere here.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Is it? Lesko looks like MiLB Nate Pearson. He is still being propped up by draft status and "stuff". He is almost 21 in A+ ball and has shown no ability to throw strikes whatsoever. It's not like he is even trending up this season; his last 3 starts have been garbage: 14 IP, 15 ER, 3 HR, 11 BB, 17 K.

Homer Bush Jr. isn't anything. 110 wRC+ in A+ ball at almost 23 years old while repeating the level.

Of course its the Rays so they will magically fix Lesko, but if he wasn't "the best HS pitcher" in 2022 he'd be a big nothingburger by now.

For a 32 year old reliever who's not among the elite at his position (62nd in reliever WAR, which is below Yimi Garcia), sure.

Lesko is only 20 and has elite stuff, and as you said the pedigree. Again, as you said, this is the kind of player the Rays acquire and turn into a beast.

Bush may not be anything but I liked him at the draft so I believe the speed and bat to ball ability are intriguing. He's also 22, not 23, and a 110 wrc+ is above league average. Horwitz was 23 when he reached A+.

Bush actually made it to AA last year as a 21 year old and had a 149 wrc+, albeit only over 8 games. Not sure why they dropped him a level to start 2024, but considering he was drafted just last year writing him off as a prospect seems a tad premature.

JD Gonzalez is also interesting at brief glance of his profile, but I don't know enough about him to say much more than he's a nice lotto ticket.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]