Blue Jays Discussion: 2024 Season (better title pending or maybe not ... )

[Eyedea]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835378811182981308

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835127381004046704

He’s been great but unfortunately not enough games. He’ll at the very least be behind Wells, Cowser, Gil, and Miller.

 

[phillipmike]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835679991117345259

 

[Suntouchable13]

I know it’s easy to say now, but I couldn’t care less what kind of spring Horwitz had. You don’t take Vogelbach ahead of him. Should have started the season in Toronto. But I guess raking in aaa for a couple of months helped him a lot also.

 

[LaP]

I know it’s easy to say now, but I couldn’t care less what kind of spring Horwitz had. You don’t take Vogelbach ahead of him. Should have started the season in Toronto. But I guess raking in aaa for a couple of months helped him a lot also.

I think it was easy to say then too. I mean i remember many fans myself included questioning this move a lot. Many myself included questioned IKF and KK signing too.

Three things i hope to see next winter from Atkins. One of the best quality a GM can have is to admit being wrong and move on. I hope the Zach Pop experiment is finally over. Getting Mitch White and Zach Pop to help the bullpen was a mistake. I know we gave nothing but we got nothing in return while the team needed help. Time to move on Ross, Pop is not good enough.

Atkins got to move on faster from vets not doing well enough. I know baseball has changed it's now common to hit for 220 and it's a HOF worthy accomplishment to hit for 240 bla bla bla. I could not care less about the baseball has changed BS hitting for 220 with 15 HR while being slow on base is not good enough for the MLB it's as simple as that. Move on Ross and get someone better. The patience shown toward Biggio was disgusting. I remember some fan defending his usage as a 4th batter in playoffs in 2023 and it was disgusting. Patience shown toward Vogelbach was even worse.

Jays might not have a lot of high end prospects but they have a pretty good depth. There's more than enough talent there to fill the bottom of the lineup for cheap. Please Ross don't waste your time signing guys like KK and IKF. Aim for the big fish and if you can't pull it off then field kids they'll do better than the trash vets you might end up signing instead.

 

[aingefan]

I think Toman is in bust territory now. Doughty needs to stay healthy. I believe Beltre finished off well so he is one worth keeping an eye on. Bonilla is a guy that hopefully breaks out because from what I read he had a poor year.

I’m giving Toman some rope given his youth. Not much progression tho.
Bonilla had a rough year in the complex league. Tons of time. Beltre is toolsy, hope he puts it together more next year.
Doughty to his credit has mashed when he’s played, so hopefully he comes into ‘25 healthy and ready to go.
Who are the six injured pitchers referenced? Presuming it includes Romano, Manoah, Tiedemann, Barriera, Maroudis…..and?
Edit to add: looks like my answer is above.
I wasn’t familiar with Kelowna Sauer, so I looked him up. This is his full name:
Kelena Lanakilahaahaaokekoa Mark Alan Sauer.

 

[Discoverer]

I think it was easy to say then too. I mean i remember many fans myself included questioning this move a lot. Many myself included questioned IKF and KK signing too.

Three things i hope to see next winter from Atkins. One of the best quality a GM can have is to admit being wrong and move on. I hope the Zach Pop experiment is finally over. Getting Mitch White and Zach Pop to help the bullpen was a mistake. I know we gave nothing but we got nothing in return while the team needed help. Time to move on Ross, Pop is not good enough.

Atkins got to move on faster from vets not doing well enough. I know baseball has changed it's now common to hit for 220 and it's a HOF worthy accomplishment to hit for 240 bla bla bla. I could not care less about the baseball has changed BS hitting for 220 with 15 HR while being slow on base is not good enough for the MLB it's as simple as that. Move on Ross and get someone better. The patience shown toward Biggio was disgusting. I remember some fan defending his usage as a 4th batter in playoffs in 2023 and it was disgusting. Patience shown toward Vogelbach was even worse.

Jays might not have a lot of high end prospects but they have a pretty good depth. There's more than enough talent there to fill the bottom of the lineup for cheap. Please Ross don't waste your time signing guys like KK and IKF. Aim for the big fish and if you can't pull it off then field kids they'll do better than the trash vets you might end up signing instead.

Vogelbach got 79 PA with the Jays. That's like three weeks worth of playing time. Having someone else in that spot who actually produced enough to earn more playing time would have been really helpful, but they definitely weren't patient with him.

Also, the IKF signing could not possibly have worked out better. It seems a bit odd to rail against modern baseball while also complaining about a guy who hit .292 with a bit of power, good baserunning, and excellent defense. IKF was one of the best player for the Jays in the first half and they flipped him for a prospect.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Vogelbach got 79 PA with the Jays. That's like three weeks worth of playing time. Having someone else in that spot who actually produced enough to earn more playing time would have been really helpful, but they definitely weren't patient with him.

Also, the IKF signing could not possibly have worked out better. It seems a bit odd to rail against modern baseball while also complaining about a guy who hit .292 with a bit of power, good baserunning, and excellent defense. IKF was one of the best player for the Jays in the first half and they flipped him for a prospect.

IKF signing worked out via dumb luck really. This guy was a below average hitter, that can play several defensive positions very well. I was not really impressed by that signing at all. Where I applaud Atkins is that he saw there was not much out there so he did not sign mid players like Candelario or Chappy or Bellinger to long-ish term contracts. He did not lock himself into mediocrity for years to come. There’s a lot of good players available this winter. Let’s see what he does.

 

[Discoverer]

IKF signing worked out via dumb luck really. This guy was a below average hitter, that can play several defensive positions very well. I was not really impressed by that signing at all. Where I applaud Atkins is that he saw there was not much out there so he did not sign mid players like Candelario or Chappy or Bellinger to long-ish term contracts. He did not lock himself into mediocrity for years to come. There’s a lot of good players available this winter. Let’s see what he does.

I don't think it's fair to characterize deals as "dumb luck" just because they work out better than expected. I didn't like that contract at all - I thought he was a $3-4 million, late-spring training addition who they instead gave $15 million to. But he earned every penny of that contract in half a season and then they got something in return.

They deserve to be criticized for adding a mediocre bat and a defense-first OF when they needed an impact bat. They absolutely botched the offseason. But I also think they deserve credit for a move that works out as well as that one did.

 

[LaP]

I don't think it's fair to characterize deals as "dumb luck" just because they work out better than expected. I didn't like that contract at all - I thought he was a $3-4 million, late-spring training addition who they instead gave $15 million to. But he earned every penny of that contract in half a season and then they got something in return.

They deserve to be criticized for adding a mediocre bat and a defense-first OF when they needed an impact bat. They absolutely botched the offseason. But I also think they deserve credit for a move that works out as well as that one did.

IKF like KK has been regressing to his career average lately which should not be a surprise to anyone. I fully agree with Suntouchable13 it was a career-high season "dumb luck". You never know when a player will get one of those (some players never do) so calling this dumb luck is imo appropriate.

IKF career OPS+ is 83. He's not a good hitter who is much better than the options the Jays had in triple A. I still maintain (and since last winter) the focus has to be getting a top dog and keep the money until you can pull it off. No reason to spend part of the internal cap on vets with a career OPS+ of under 100.

 

[tmlfan98]

Weird that Serven was the catcher who was DFAed instead of Nick Raposo, considering his chemistry catching Bowden Francis.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835772645473976817

 

[dredeye]

Vogelbach got 79 PA with the Jays. That's like three weeks worth of playing time. Having someone else in that spot who actually produced enough to earn more playing time would have been really helpful, but they definitely weren't patient with him.

Also, the IKF signing could not possibly have worked out better. It seems a bit odd to rail against modern baseball while also complaining about a guy who hit .292 with a bit of power, good baserunning, and excellent defense. IKF was one of the best player for the Jays in the first half and they flipped him for a prospect.

I agree with the IKF part but he's not wrong either. It was a weird overpay in a flooded pool but they turned it into an asset and as you said that one certainly paid off. Signing KK infuriated me. It was an absolute waste of a roster spot if he wasn't here to be anything other than a 4th outfielder. But at 10 per you knew Varsho was going back to LF which made no sense.

As for Vogelbach. Your response here was disingenuous to say the least. Yes, he only got 79PA but that's because he was used as a primarily bench bat and occasional DH. When you're only here for your bat you best be hitting the ball which is obviously was not. He is by all accounts a great locker room guy and had a decent spring so sure you can bring him along but that roster spot was a huge waste and LAP is right they left it with him way way too long. We were losing badly and had no real options off the bench. Vogelbach was on the roster far too long.

Weird that Serven was the catcher who was DFAed instead of Nick Raposo, considering his chemistry catching Bowden Francis.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835772645473976817

WTF is this move. Severn was worth having up simply because of how him and Francis worked together. Why the F would we do this for Heineman. He wasn't good enough to keep around the other two times he was here. Terrible move.

 

[dredeye]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835679991117345259

whoever we are using in the minors to work with our pitching staff needs to be removed immediately including any training staff showing them what to work on. That's just a horrible record of injury which comes as a huge cost to the team.

 

[canucksfan]

whoever we are using in the minors to work with our pitching staff needs to be removed immediately including any training staff showing them what to work on. That's just a horrible record of injury which comes as a huge cost to the team.

They have released the pitching coordinator and Dunedin pitching coach.

 

[Eyedea]

WTF is this move. Severn was worth having up simply because of how him and Francis worked together. Why the F would we do this for Heineman. He wasn't good enough to keep around the other two times he was here. Terrible move.

Was Severn really any good? He looked pretty abysmal on both sides of the plate irrespective of his game calling for Francis. I’d also like to think that if Francis is legit, he should be able to pitch to any battery mate.

Heineman also probably couldn’t stick before because the Jays ran Kirk/Jano at C… he even performed pretty well during his time here.

 

[aingefan]

Weird that Serven was the catcher who was DFAed instead of Nick Raposo, considering his chemistry catching Bowden Francis.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835772645473976817

That does seem odd.

On the topic of Vogelbach, I didn’t really understand walking away from Belt. Similar players, but the devil you know and all.

 

[Discoverer]

Weird that Serven was the catcher who was DFAed instead of Nick Raposo, considering his chemistry catching Bowden Francis.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1835772645473976817

Yeah, that's a weird one. Seems pretty pointless.

 

[phillipmike]

Serven can’t catch a no hitter, so test to see if Heinemen can get it done.

 

[tmlfan98]

Was Severn really any good? He looked pretty abysmal on both sides of the plate irrespective of his game calling for Francis. I’d also like to think that if Francis is legit, he should be able to pitch to any battery mate.

Heineman also probably couldn’t stick before because the Jays ran Kirk/Jano at C… he even performed pretty well during his time here.

Definitely would have preferred Serven being kept on the 40-man considering his chemistry catching Francis, and also considering that other catcher in AAA Nick Raposo is still on the 40-man. They could have optioned Serven and DFAed that guy instead.

 

[canucksfan]

I’m giving Toman some rope given his youth. Not much progression tho.
Bonilla had a rough year in the complex league. Tons of time. Beltre is toolsy, hope he puts it together more next year.
Doughty to his credit has mashed when he’s played, so hopefully he comes into ‘25 healthy and ready to go.
Who are the six injured pitchers referenced? Presuming it includes Romano, Manoah, Tiedemann, Barriera, Maroudis…..and?
Edit to add: looks like my answer is above.
I wasn’t familiar with Kelowna Sauer, so I looked him up. This is his full name:
Kelena Lanakilahaahaaokekoa Mark Alan Sauer.

Baseball is weird where a player can make a slight change and get excellent results. However, in regards to Toman, he repeated low A and his numbers were basically identical to his first year instead he struck out more and had slightly less power. He's going to be 21 next year and I would assume he would be in Vancouver but he was below average in Dunedin. They need to send him to driveline or something similar in the offseason.

 

[shaner8989]

Such an unlikable front office. They are a f***ing joke. Stupid and pathetic

 

[dredeye]

They have released the pitching coordinator and Dunedin pitching coach.

Perfect. Didn’t know that

Was Severn really any good? He looked pretty abysmal on both sides of the plate irrespective of his game calling for Francis. I’d also like to think that if Francis is legit, he should be able to pitch to any battery mate.

Heineman also probably couldn’t stick before because the Jays ran Kirk/Jano at C… he even performed pretty well during his time here.

I’m not saying Severn is great or anything. Just don’t get the thought process of a guy who for whatever reason has called great games with Francis and it was a great story. Breaking that up for a guy 5 years older who also isn’t very good seems odd. Hopefully, I’m wrong but this is a puzzling move. Your point on the depth is true though. I didn’t coMauser that

 

[canucksfan]

Such an unlikable front office. They are a f***ing joke. Stupid and pathetic

Not sure why I am responding but it's hard to take a post like this seriously. I am no fan of Atkins and management did have a poor offseason. However, before this year the team made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. The only year they didn't make it they missed by one game. Management has been more involved in IFA signings, built a high end facility in Dunedin, forced Rogers to spend, and did much needed renovations on the Rogers Center. Obviously they have their faults but they aren't a joke.

Look at the White Sox for a joke.

 

[Discoverer]

Such an unlikable front office. They are a f***ing joke. Stupid and pathetic

This is a very calm and level-headed response to DFA'ing Brian Serven.

 

[metafour]

I’m not saying Severn is great or anything. Just don’t get the thought process of a guy who for whatever reason has called great games with Francis and it was a great story. Breaking that up for a guy 5 years older who also isn’t very good seems odd. Hopefully, I’m wrong but this is a puzzling move. Your point on the depth is true though. I didn’t coMauser that

Serven has somehow been able to accrue -0.5 fWAR in under 100 PA the past two seasons. He is really really bad.

Heineman is a better player than Serven. The idea that Serven is magically the only catcher who can call games for Bowden Francis is absurd.

 

[dredeye]

Not sure why I am responding but it's hard to take a post like this seriously. I am no fan of Atkins and management did have a poor offseason. However, before this year the team made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. The only year they didn't make it they missed by one game. Management has been more involved in IFA signings, built a high end facility in Dunedin, forced Rogers to spend, and did much needed renovations on the Rogers Center. Obviously they have their faults but they aren't a joke.

Look at the White Sox for a joke.

What post did you respond to? You don't have one attached to your comment. Atkins has done a poor job. Shapiro has done a fine job on the business management side for sure. If he's got his hands all over the team and decisions like it's rumoured that he does he needs to go as well.