2024 preseason (camp, media stuff)

[TheBeard]

For the love of god, who are we evaluating that's so much more important than giving Sam Dickinson, who is the only defenseman in the entire Sharks organization with a half-way decent chance of becoming a top pairing defenseman? I want names.

Top pairing? No, but last I checked we're not icing a 18-1 line-up. Sam will be a mainstay on the defense in the future but at this point that's pretty much it. Do you think the plan is to constantly sign guys like Benning and trade for guys like Ruuta in the hopes of getting top 4 minutes? Everyone deserves a fair shake at making the club or at least proving they're potentially a part of the future. There's nothing that can be evaluated from the next ten days of preseaaon that will change anyone's opinion or their prospective timeline. Again, if your reasoning for keeping him around is to hang out and soak up knowledge from the vets then fine, but right now the game is too fast for him and he got his taste of just what he needs to improve on from last night.

So, for the love of god, it's just an opinion.

 

[STL Shark]

Top pairing? No, but last I checked we're not icing a 18-1 line-up. Sam will be a mainstay on the defense in the future but at this point that's pretty much it. Do you think the plan is to constantly sign guys like Benning and trade for guys like Ruuta in the hopes of getting top 4 minutes? Everyone deserves a fair shake at making the club or at least proving they're potentially a part of the future. There's nothing that can be evaluated from the next ten days of preseaaon that will change anyone's opinion or their prospective timeline. Again, if your reasoning for keeping him around is to hang out and soak up knowledge from the vets then fine, but right now the game is too fast for him and he got his taste of just what he needs to improve on from last night.

So, for the love of god, it's just an opinion.

You think that the best way to slow the game down for him is to send him to the league/camp that he's already shown he can dominate? How's he supposed to improve the things he needs to from last night when he's not getting the appropriate exposure to them in the OHL?

If you want the game to slow down, you have to be exposed to the fast game. I'd play him every single preseason game if possible just to get him more and more reps against professional players before he has to go back to dominating kids for another year. Break him down a little before you send him to the OHL where he can be built back up.

 

[Alaskanice]

You think that the best way to slow the game down for him is to send him to the league/camp that he's already shown he can dominate? How's he supposed to improve the things he needs to from last night when he's not getting the appropriate exposure to them in the OHL?

If you want the game to slow down, you have to be exposed to the fast game. I'd play him every single preseason game if possible just to get him more and more reps against professional players before he has to go back to dominating kids for another year. Break him down a little before you send him to the OHL where he can be built back up.

Well said.

 

[TheBeard]

You think that the best way to slow the game down for him is to send him to the league/camp that he's already shown he can dominate? How's he supposed to improve the things he needs to from last night when he's not getting the appropriate exposure to them in the OHL?

If you want the game to slow down, you have to be exposed to the fast game. I'd play him every single preseason game if possible just to get him more and more reps against professional players before he has to go back to dominating kids for another year. Break him down a little before you send him to the OHL where he can be built back up.

In an ideal world he’s going to the barracuda but that’s not an option. I legit don’t think he’ll gain much from this particular experience other than a better understanding of the speed of the game. Again, I’ve said i had no issues with him staying but there will still be plenty of opportunities to learn whether the rookie camps, the world juniors, the preseason experiences etc. there’s an extreme lack of other development talents in the system in the blue line and I’d rather the club focus on the guys like Laroque and Pulli to see what their futures in the organization look like. Now if that means they’ll all get looks during the season while flip flopping between the big club and the barracuda then so be it. But in terms of showing improvement, there’s a lot Sam can work on even still in London against inferior competition.

 

[Alaskanice]

In an ideal world he’s going to the barracuda but that’s not an option. I legit don’t think he’ll gain much from this particular experience other than a better understanding of the speed of the game. Again, I’ve said i had no issues with him staying but there will still be plenty of opportunities to learn whether the rookie camps, the world juniors, the preseason experiences etc. there’s an extreme lack of other development talents in the system in the blue line and I’d rather the club focus on the guys like Laroque and Pulli to see what their futures in the organization look like. Now if that means they’ll all get looks during the season while flip flopping between the big club and the barracuda then so be it. But in terms of showing improvement, there’s a lot Sam can work on even still in London against inferior competition.

Aside from the hockey game, he’s going to learn how professionals prepare, how they hold themselves and what it takes to be a professional. How to eat right and how to train and workout. Hear stories and if he’s the kind of kid they think he is, he’s going to use that knowledge, wherever he goes.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Top pairing? No, but last I checked we're not icing a 18-1 line-up. Sam will be a mainstay on the defense in the future but at this point that's pretty much it. Do you think the plan is to constantly sign guys like Benning and trade for guys like Ruuta in the hopes of getting top 4 minutes? Everyone deserves a fair shake at making the club or at least proving they're potentially a part of the future. There's nothing that can be evaluated from the next ten days of preseaaon that will change anyone's opinion or their prospective timeline. Again, if your reasoning for keeping him around is to hang out and soak up knowledge from the vets then fine, but right now the game is too fast for him and he got his taste of just what he needs to improve on from last night.

So, for the love of god, it's just an opinion.

Yes, my reasoning for keeping Dickinson in NHL camp is to give him as much exposure to NHL pace and forechecking as humanly possible to drive home that it's something he really needs to work on when he goes back to juniors. It's also to have access to NHL vets, coaches, trainers, and practices. I have said that from the very beginning.

I'm all for evaluating Laroque and Pulli or whatever. But you whinging about Dickinson remaining in camp being the reason Laroque got cut when literally Joey Keane, Braeden Hache, Jimmy Schuldt, Lucas Carlsson, Ethan Frisch, and Artem Gurayev are still in camp is insane. None of those guys has a realistic chance of ever being a full-time NHLer, so why complain about Dickinson instead of literally any of those guys?

 

[sampler]

In an ideal world he’s going to the barracuda but that’s not an option. I legit don’t think he’ll gain much from this particular experience other than a better understanding of the speed of the game. Again, I’ve said i had no issues with him staying but there will still be plenty of opportunities to learn whether the rookie camps, the world juniors, the preseason experiences etc. there’s an extreme lack of other development talents in the system in the blue line and I’d rather the club focus on the guys like Laroque and Pulli to see what their futures in the organization look like. Now if that means they’ll all get looks during the season while flip flopping between the big club and the barracuda then so be it. But in terms of showing improvement, there’s a lot Sam can work on even still in London against inferior competition.

I agree. if he was on the cusp of the pro-level game, like pickles surprised in the 2006 camp, I would think differently, but last night he showed that he's not yet in the ballpark in terms of processing speed and decision making. Yes, it would be nice to have him face faster competition all year, but he still can definitely improve even in the OHL, and as aptly mentioned, in world jrs and possibly in the AHL at the end of the season. Dick was drafted high, but he is far from ready, so he should get one more preseason game and then back to junior with a laundry list of things to work on. Giving him 9 games to get torched by NHL players, be a consistent -3, and made to look silly wouldn't help anyone.

I also agree that other guys in house should be looked at much more right now. I wanna see what Thompson, Mukh, Cagnoni, and Thrun can do. These are the more immediate potentials to play regularly this year.

 

[sampler]

Yes, my reasoning for keeping Dickinson in NHL camp is to give him as much exposure to NHL pace and forechecking as humanly possible to drive home that it's something he really needs to work on when he goes back to juniors. It's also to have access to NHL vets, coaches, trainers, and practices. I have said that from the very beginning.

I'm all for evaluating Laroque and Pulli or whatever. But you whinging about Dickinson remaining in camp being the reason Laroque got cut when literally Joey Keane, Braeden Hache, Jimmy Schuldt, Lucas Carlsson, Ethan Frisch, and Artem Gurayev are still in camp is insane. None of those guys has a realistic chance of ever being a full-time NHLer, so why complain about Dickinson instead of literally any of those guys?

Nothing wrong with keeping Dick in camp until the season starts. There's no rush to send him down. I hope he gets at least one more preseason game in too. Experience at the NHL level in preseason is a good thing. The stats/games/points don't matter, yet its a good simulation to see where the holes in your game are.

But dressing him in the regular season means exposing him to the elements at the highest level. I get the argument that more exposure is always good, but in case of a Dman espcially or someone far from NHL level, I don't think so. A forward who fumbles is just not punished like a dman. the mini-breakaway goal that dick handed over last night is embarrassing and damaging in the regular season, and while the goal may not be to win a cup this year, its hard to establish a winning culture when hanging your top prospect, wholly unready, out to dry, and playing him over a clearly more deserving guy who badly outplayed him in camp.

The regular season is not, and should not be, an extended training camp. If it were, by that logic, they could give 9 games to wetsch, misskey, and roberts too, not to mention putting korostelyov in net.

In the regular season, you play the guys who have earned a spot and ice the best team you can. In a very very borderline situation, where a young guy looks right on the cusp, you can give the 9 game extended tryout. Thats what they did with eklund two years ago. He showed he wasnt quite ready, so back to sweden he went, and that was the right call.

Dick isnt a borderline call, so he should not play a real NHL game this year. Musty remains more opaque: he's a year older and plays the easiest position (wing). Thats why I expect he'll get one more look to show his developement before a final decision is made. It also depends alot on how Gush and bordy play. Both are much further along than musty, albeit undersized and different kind of players.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838340594680369563

 

[Star Platinum]

While the experience is nice, absolutely nothing he does in the games he plays this preseason changes any evaluation the team has of him nor will it change the organization’s time line for his development.

I think what the experience probably does for a younger guy with a lot of upside is that it shows you the difference between what you have to deal with at the pro level versus what you could get away with at the junior level and then it informs you on the stuff you really need to work on when you go back to juniors. It doesn't change the organization's evaluation of where he's at or what their plan is for him because he's locked into two more years of junior hockey no matter what. However long he stays on the camp roster is purely for his benefit because unlike those other defensemen, he's a high upside prospect. Outside of Cagnoni, the other healthy defensemen will be lucky if they have NHL careers at all.

It would be nice if Shakir can get healthy during camp so that they can decide whether he's going back to the AHL or starting the year with the Sharks. I'm hoping for the latter.

 

[Star Platinum]

Right now Dickinson will and should not sniff the NHL for at least the next couple of seasons and the only reason he would is out of desperation. I liken it to a bad NFL forcing a rookie QB to start and then being shocked that the development doesn't happen (I'm looking at you Bryce Young). He's a key part of the future, but IMO right now is not his time. Again, he JUST turned 18. I don't expect him to be a regular in the line-up until he's 21-22. That's 4 years down the road. We are going to need other NHL defencemen regardless of how successful he is.

I think that preseason games are the compromise solution there. Still a big enough jump in competition where a young player gets to see where the rough spots are in his game so that the message he's getting from his coaches and the development staff sinks in that much better, but also if you do something moronically dumb like run into your own player in the defensive zone and give up a goal as a result, nobody really cares.

If he did get the 9 games, I don't think it would be the end of the world as wins and losses are not the important metric of this season so nothing of importance is really being risked by him going out there. The risk is really more what it says to the other guys on the team who are better players now that are having to go to the AHL to create a roster spot for a guy who hasn't earned his spot. But I think the preseason games will be more than enough feedback to give him a good idea of what he needs to work on.

 

[Star Platinum]

In an ideal world he’s going to the barracuda but that’s not an option. I legit don’t think he’ll gain much from this particular experience other than a better understanding of the speed of the game. Again, I’ve said i had no issues with him staying but there will still be plenty of opportunities to learn whether the rookie camps, the world juniors, the preseason experiences etc. there’s an extreme lack of other development talents in the system in the blue line and I’d rather the club focus on the guys like Laroque and Pulli to see what their futures in the organization look like. Now if that means they’ll all get looks during the season while flip flopping between the big club and the barracuda then so be it. But in terms of showing improvement, there’s a lot Sam can work on even still in London against inferior competition.

In an ideal world, I think going back to juniors is exactly where he should be going. He hasn't even been a top pairing defenseman in juniors yet.

 

[TheBeard]

I'm all for evaluating Laroque and Pulli or whatever. But you whinging about Dickinson remaining in camp being the reason Laroque got cut when literally Joey Keane, Braeden Hache, Jimmy Schuldt, Lucas Carlsson, Ethan Frisch, and Artem Gurayev are still in camp is insane. None of those guys has a realistic chance of ever being a full-time NHLer, so why complain about Dickinson instead of literally any of those guys?

I do remember saying any of that. It's not a one or the other situation where cut down deadlines are in place. If the team wants him to stick around and soak up the atmosphere then let him.

In an ideal world, I think going back to juniors is exactly where he should be going. He hasn't even been a top pairing defenseman in juniors yet.

While true, in my ideal hypothetical, he doesn't rely on the the preseason experience to face stiffer competition. He can do it throughout the entire AHL season.

 

[Star Platinum]

I do remember saying any of that. It's not a one or the other situation where cut down deadlines are in place. If the team wants him to stick around and soak up the atmosphere then let him.

Plus you also get the chance to talk to other NHL players and ask them questions and get a little mentoring. They all went through the same things you're going through now and probably have some wisdom to impart that will help you.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I do remember saying any of that. It's not a one or the other situation where cut down deadlines are in place. If the team wants him to stick around and soak up the atmosphere then let him.

This you?

I honestly think Dickinson should have been one of the first cuts. We all already know he's going back to London and there's a whole net cast of d-men that need proper evaluation more than he does.

 

[TheBeard]

Plus you also get the chance to talk to other NHL players and ask them questions and get a little mentoring. They all went through the same things you're going through now and probably have some wisdom to impart that will help you.

While true, it's not like the opportunity isn't constantly available to them. He's been getting the opportunities at the rookie scrimmages and rookie camps and now through the past week and just being around guys being available to them. The options don't just stop once he's back in London. He's also going to have at least AT LEAST two more camps before there's a realistic chance he's making the club. There are going to be a plethora of chances to be mentored.

 

[TheBeard]

This you?

Yeah, I don't think it was an either/or. I don't think Gannon or or Misskey were sent down because they had to make a choice.. They begun to make cuts for guys they know aren't making the team so they can narrow down their focus and attention towards those who need a more immediate evaluation due to the imminency of their futures. There aren't roster deadlines like in the NFL. I never was even the one that brought up Laroque originally.