Speculation: 2024 Off-Season Thread

[Soul Assumption]

Did you feel this way watching Bobrovski in the first round?

Yes, I have a feeling that Florida would have won with almost any goalie. Their backup also has very good stats this season. They were better 5 on 5, better on special teams. Except for that one spectacular save, it's not like he carried them.

 

[JoVel]

The only reason we stayed relatively close in the Florida series was Vasy. If we moved him at the expense of better depth, we'd still have a glaring hole in net. Give me 9.5ilevskiy over 6-7M goalies.

I think Vasi was good, but I also don't think we saw anything from him that we wouldn't see from a decent number of other goalies.

 

[Stammertime91]

I think Vasi was good, but I also don't think we saw anything from him that we wouldn't see from a decent number of other goalies.

Agreed, but I think we are a solid two replicated seasons before anybody would sniff moving him. I think expediting success at the expense of moving a franchise goalie because of back to back first round exits mitigates the suffering this organization endured through horrible goaltending for years. I'd rather ride out another five years of Vasy before venturing down that route.

There's no guarantee whoever we get can come up big when needed. A lot of hypotheticals. With Vasy, we just hope to see him return to what he was two years ago. I would 10/10 move Cirelli, Sergachev, and Cernak combined before moving Vasy. I would blow this team up before moving a top goaltender.

 

[Sky04]

I do understand what you're trying to say and the thought process here. But if Vasy goes, you might as well send in the wrecking crew and rebuild everything top to bottom. Anyone can win a draft lottery and draft a franchise center or defender. But finding that goaltender? That's the hardest part.

Adin Hill and Darcy Keumper were the last 2 SC winning goaltenders. Vancouver just won their series with Arthur Silvos in net and a favorite in the West next to Vegas again with Adil Hill in net. I don't even know who Colorado's goalie is but they probably round out the top3 from that conference.

Goaltending is the least valuable part right now, teams are stacking up in front of an average to below average goaltender and making that job as easy as possible. With all the loud complaints about "the defense" this season you might as well just run a stacked defense and make goaltending as easy as possible and cut costs because a 9-10m goalie is not going to give you a 9-10m performance on a nightly basis.

The hardest piece to find in a winning core is absolutely a #1 ice tilting defenseman right now. Outside of Vasi every cup winner since 2015 has had some average ass goaltending or some random who played "just good enough" behind a stacked team.

 

[These Are The Days]

Adin Hill and Darcy Keumper were the last 2 SC winning goaltenders. Vancouver just won their series with Arthur Silvos in net and a favorite in the West next to Vegas again with Adil Hill in net. I don't even know who Colorado's goalie is but they probably round out the top3 from that conference.

Goaltending is the least valuable part right now, teams are stacking up in front of an average to below average goaltender and making that job as easy as possible. With all the loud complaints about "the defense" this season you might as well just run a stacked defense and make goaltending as easy as possible and cut costs their because a 9-10m goalie is not going to give you a 9-10m performance on a nightly basis.

The hardest piece to find in a winning core is absolutely a #1 ice tilting defenseman right now. Outside of Vasi every cup winner since 2015 has had some average ass goaltending or some random who played "just good enough" behind a stacked team.

Oh you're right on. But imagine someone like Hill on this team right now. That's why I said we would have to cue the rebuild. It is not meant to take away from your point as much I think the Lightning are such a damn mess right now that they probably need someone the caliber of Vasilevskiy to even succeed right now. We'd basically have to build an entire shutdown line and find someone else who at worst plays at Coburn's level and for the same total cap hit as Vasy. Bleecchhh. We have a lot of work to do

 

[Coopers Gum]

People too easily forget what this team’s goaltending was like (for what, 15 years?) before Vasy.

I’m just laughing at all these posts. Trade Vasy… right.

 

[LightningStrikes]

I get the idea. There are goalies at like half Vasy’s cap hit putting up (much) better numbers. But you have to find and sign them first. Before Vasy we had Bish and Khab as the only two other good goalies in like 30 years of franchise history.

So unless we have a sure-fire alternative I wouldn’t even think about changing our goaltending. And as others have pointed out with his cap hit and a NMC I’m not even sure it’s a real option to move him, let alone for a good return.

 

[Rschmitz]

I get the idea. There are goalies at like half Vasy’s cap hit putting up (much) better numbers. But you have to find and sign them first. Before Vasy we had Bish and Khab as the only two other good goalies in like 30 years of franchise history.

So unless we have a sure-fire alternative I wouldn’t even think about changing our goaltending. And as others have pointed out with his cap hit and a NMC I’m not even sure it’s a real option to move him, let alone for a good return.

Dancing on the grave of my man Darren Puppa? lol

When we replaced Khabibulin with Johnny Grahame, our 04 team went from 192 GA +53 differential to 260 GA -8 differential with essentially the same exact roster. No thank you, and at the time Feaster was gloating that Grahame was going to seamlessly replace him.

The problem with Vasilevskiy isn't that he's a goalie with a high salary, it's that he hasn't lived up to his salary.

 

[Soul Assumption]

Vasy played well against Florida, but you'd expect him to steal at least ONE game, which didn't happen.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

People too easily forget what this team’s goaltending was like (for what, 15 years?) before Vasy.

I’m just laughing at all these posts. Trade Vasy… right.

Respectfully, i'll fight each and every one of you back to back if you suggest that at the moment.

Vasy played well against Florida, but you'd expect him to steal at least ONE game, which didn't happen.

I didn't, what I was really hoping for/expecting was that this roster figured out zone exits against the cats, and the kinda did? Then they lost more bodies.

 

[Felonious Python]

 

[DFC]

People too easily forget what this team’s goaltending was like (for what, 15 years?) before Vasy.

I’m just laughing at all these posts. Trade Vasy… right.

Not saying we should trade Vasy, but we did have Bishop for a few years. We've had stellar goaltending for a while now.

 

[Rschmitz]

Not saying we should trade Vasy, but we did have Bishop for a few years. We've had stellar goaltending for a while now.

WW2 happened a while ago too but people who were alive then don't want to repeat the same mistakes 2005-2011 Never Forget

 

[Crunchrulz]

Given what we have seen over the last two seasons, there are only two players who should be considered "untouchable".
Kooch for his overall play and Vasy as there is no goaltending depth in the system. Both are All World talents, as anyone with an ounce of hockey sense understands.
Players like Heddy and Bagel would need a heck of an offer to be moved as they have proven their worth as well.
I did not consider Stammer as he is a UFA and free to sign where he wants for whatever he wants.
If the team is going to succeed and move forward, changes are obviously necessary, and we are going to have to trade quality that may need a change of scenery to get quality that may need a change of scenery.
As for JBB and Cooper, they should be good for one more season. That being typed, should the 24-25 season go as the previous two have, changes need to be made as you can have all the top talent in the world but if you cannot get them a supporting cast, their talent is wasted.

 

[Antiramie]

Vasy at least provides a high floor for the roster/defense. If you get rid of him and the cap replacement pieces don’t work out then you’re a lottery team. It’s a very risky move.

I would trade button-hook Point in an instant over him.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Vasy at least provides a high floor for the roster/defense. If you get rid of him and the cap replacement pieces don’t work out then you’re a lottery team. It’s a very risky move.

I would trade button-hook Point in an instant over him.

Not to mention, even the mediocre or middle of the pack goaltenders aren't getting *that* much less per season. Husso, Merzlikins, Gibson, etc... all 5m+ per season goaltenders that didn't even get over the 90% threshold last year. If you want someone who can actually eat games its going to cost us, and don't tell me Johansen is the answer.

 

[Hoek]

Not to mention, even the mediocre or middle of the pack goaltenders aren't getting *that* much less per season. Husso, Merzlikins, Gibson, etc... all 5m+ per season goaltenders that didn't even get over the 90% threshold last year. If you want someone who can actually eat games its going to cost us, and don't tell me Johansen is the answer.

Exactly, you're taking on a decent amount of risk just so you can throw like $3m more at defense at best, which is not enough to fix that problem.

 

[Rschmitz]

It's just a dumb argument

Some teams roll the dice on goaltending and get lucky, and you only need to get lucky once.

You only need to be wrong once too to screw up your season. Ask Toronto how it worked out for them.

Lightning have decided that goaltending isn't the position they wanna roll the dice on, and I think that's the correct move, most elite netminders are never even made available. Vasy playing not even middle of the pack netminding for the season wasn't a tactical mistake, that's on the player not living up to his contract.

 

[Sky04]

It's just a dumb argument

Some teams roll the dice on goaltending and get lucky, and you only need to get lucky once.

You only need to be wrong once too to screw up your season. Ask Toronto how it worked out for them.

Lightning have decided that goaltending isn't the position they wanna roll the dice on, and I think that's the correct move, most elite netminders are never even made available. Vasy playing not even middle of the pack netminding for the season wasn't a tactical mistake, that's on the player not living up to his contract.

You're going to sit there and say goaltending is the reason the Leafs lose? I could give you 40m other reasons why.

While we don't move away from Vasi because we already have a solid goaltender even if he's overpaid. Tactically signing a goalie to a huge contract is definitely the wrong move, the only time it's paid off is with Tampa and thats with an insanely stacked team in front of him. 3 of 5 goalies with a caphit over 8M this season got booted in the 1st round, 1 is Price on LTIR, a goalie just isn't likely to live up to that price tag so you're guaranteed to value there.

The best goalie in the league this season was Helleybuck and the only game he won in his series he gave up 6 goals while Georgiov was sitting on the other end sporting a .900 cruising through the series. The best way to win is definitely strategically stacking your team in front over having an elite goalie at an elite price.

 

[Rschmitz]

You're going to sit there and say goaltending is the reason the Leafs lose? I could give you 40m other reasons why.

While we don't move away from Vasi because we already have a solid goaltender even if he's overpaid. Tactically signing a goalie to a huge contract is definitely the wrong move, the only time it's paid off is with Tampa and thats with an insanely stacked team in front of him. 3 of 5 goalies with a caphit over 8M this season got booted in the 1st round, 1 is Price on LTIR, a goalie just isn't likely to live up to that price tag so you're guaranteed to value there.

The best goalie in the league this season was Helleybuck and the only game he won in his series he gave up 6 goals while Georgiov was sitting on the other end sporting a .900 cruising through the series. The best way to win is definitely strategically stacking your team in front over having an elite goalie at an elite price.

So in other words....It's like spending 40m on forwards instead of goaltending doesn't work out either. Who'd have thunk?

And yes, Samsonov being a sieve has been talked about ad nauseam by Toronto and Boston fans. Out of 16 teams in the postseason he had the third worst save percentage.

 

[DFC]

So in other words....It's like spending 40m on forwards instead of goaltending doesn't work out either. Who'd have thunk?

And yes, Samsonov being a sieve has been talked about ad nauseam by Toronto and Boston fans. Out of 16 teams in the postseason he had the third worst save percentage.

I think it's more the particular forwards they have. Keefe diagnosed the problem pretty well, IMO. The Leafs get baited into playing Leaf hockey. Pointless possession hockey.

Ironically, we probably could have won both cups with average goaltending. But that doesnt feel very true for the current team.

 

[Stammertime91]

I think it's more the particular forwards they have. Keefe diagnosed the problem pretty well, IMO. The Leafs get baited into playing Leaf hockey. Pointless possession hockey.

Ironically, we probably could have won both cups with average goaltending. But that doesnt feel very true for the current team.

I don't think many goalies rebound that well after a loss like Vasy would have during those runs.

I feel like having something to talk about during the off-season is just underselling and underappreciating his postseason run those two (arguably three) years.

 

[Rschmitz]

I think it's more the particular forwards they have. Keefer diagnosed the problem pretty well. The Leafs get baited into playing Leaf hockey.

Ironically, we probably could have won both cups with average goaltending. But that doesnt feel very true for the current team.

Hypothetically if we could get guaranteed average goaltending and save 5m I would make that trade, it’s just an awfully precarious gamble in reality. You can’t hide poor goaltending, they play all 60 minutes. A forward, you can reduce playing time and make adjustments, a goaltender you ride all the way

 

[DFC]

I don't think many goalies rebound that well after a loss like Vasy would have during those runs.

I feel like having something to talk about during the off-season is just underselling and underappreciating his postseason run those two (arguably three) years.

He was great those two years. But we probably would have won even if he just pretty good.

Hypothetically if we could get guaranteed average goaltending and save 5m I would make that trade, it’s just an awfully precarious gamble in reality. You can’t hide poor goaltending, they play all 60 minutes. A forward, you can reduce playing time and make adjustments, a goaltender you ride all the way

I'm not sure that I would make that trade. It just seems like the current make up of the team has a better chance if the goalie goes Hasek mode than it has if we had another top-4 D.

 

[Sky04]

He was great those two years. But we probably would have won even if he just pretty good.

I'm not sure that I would make that trade. It just seems like the current make up of the team has a better chance if the goalie goes Hasek mode than it has if we had another top-4 D.

Lets move away from the goaltender talk for a sec and hypothetically lets say instead of Sergachev we have McDonagh and Ruuta, how much more balanced and effective does that make our top-4 now in front of Vasy? Another reason we aren't do well with the current make-up is that a 1-2 punch of Hedman-Sergachev is just not consistent, especially defensively.