2024 Training Camp Thread (Update 10/07: Roster Set)

[Volica]

Sort of confused where Calgary is coming from here, being in a rebuild and all. Not that I think Pelts will be much outside of a depth guy in his career; but choosing a bunch of depth vets over him is confusing.

The contract thing.
The coming into camp looking lost.
The mediocre preseason.

He didn’t help himself here either.

I think he’ll pass through, I think his calibre and especially his size will have people passing. I could see Montreal maybe, just because of the nationality thing.

 

[MM917]

Bottom line, it's poor asset management and a nonsensical lack of patience. That they would prioritize utterly irrelevant mercs like Rooney or Hanley, position be damned is simply insane.

And if the Flames still haven't figured out something so basic, then hard to believe they'll one day magically put it all together.

Rooney and Hanley can pass through waivers any time they want no risk of them ever being taken. Now that is likely the same with Pelltier but there could always be one team dumb enough to think they have the magic elixir to change lack of talent.

So sending him down when teams are the healthiest they will be all year and when there are a ton of other options makes sense. Like I said it likely doesn't matter as every team has a Pelltier or two or three so unlikely he does get picked but with Rooney and hanley no chance they get taken so you save their waivers for when you have no other choice and might risk a Pelletier to a team that just lost 3 guys that week to the IR.

 

[Some Other Flame]

I mean I’m team “Pospisil to the 4th line” probably more than anyone else, but in what world is demoting prospects who have shown much more to accommodate one who isn’t looking good great long term thinking? Punish good young players to promote ones who currently are not is a terrible philosophy.

I’m chuckling imagining the conversation between Huska and Zary when they tell him he’s getting demoted to the 4th line for 5-10 games because they have a guy who they’d rather be in the AHL we have to protect.

Except no one's being punished in this case. Rooney doesn't count because he's irrelevant.

Being on decent 4th line getting roughly 10 minutes a game is not a punishment, especially with Huska literally saying he's gone run 4 lines.

It all comes down the simple ability to think longterm versus short term reactionary moves. It's the reason why they they signed Mantha & Barrie, kept Hanley & Rooney on the roster, why they waived Solovyov & Pelletier - it's always about the short term with this franchise.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Except no one's being punished in this case. Rooney doesn't count because he's irrelevant.

Being on decent 4th line getting roughly 10 minutes a game is not a punishment, especially with Huska literally saying he's gone run 4 lines.

It all comes down the simple ability to think longterm versus short term reactionary moves. It's the reason why they they signed Mantha & Barrie, kept Hanley & Rooney on the roster, why they waived Solovyov & Pelletier - it's always about the short term with this franchise.

If you don’t see how giving Pospisil and ESPECIALLY Zary 10 minutes a night on our 4th line isn’t punishing and detrimental I don’t think you’re in a place to be rational about this.

Sure, let’s cut Zary’s ice time by 50% to accommodate Pelletier, now that’s thinking about the future of our team. You develop players by giving them more minutes, not taking them away.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

If you don’t see how giving Pospisil and ESPECIALLY Zary 10 minutes a night on our 4th line isn’t punishing and detrimental I don’t think you’re in a place to be rational about this.

Sure, let’s cut Zary’s ice time by 50% to accommodate Pelletier, now that’s thinking about the future of our team. You develop players by giving them more minutes, not taking them away.

You could give Zary PP time and Pospisil PK time. Give them equal opportunities on the 4th and 2nd line, so they average about 15 minutes per game.
82x15=1,230
72x18=1,296

The difference is minimal.

 

[Kahvi]

Honzek can play in AHL this season, right? so there's no 9 game contract slide thing, unless he's sent to CHL

 

[JPeeper]

Pretty sure we've been over this. All the roster "problems" could have been easily solved by waiving Rooney and having Zary & Pospisil alternate as the 4th line center depending on who's going. There's the winger spot freed for Pelletier.

But that would have required a coach and GM capable of thinking longterm and being slightly creative which obviously is a big no no in Calgary.

Can't have offensive prospects playing in the 4th line. Can't have checking prospects on the 4th. No, the 4th line has be useless and a liability 5 on 5, that's the rule.

So Pelletier should be gifted a spot so you can have Zary or Pospisil, players who are better than him, down on the 4th line which will get them less ice-time and stall their development time so Pelletier who didn't outwork anyone in camp can stay on the team.

That's stupid. It also disrespects all 50 players who have contracts on the Flames saying essentially that hard work doesn't matter, waiver status does. Again, that's stupid.

 

[Yepthatsme]

You could give Zary PP time and Pospisil PK time. Give them equal opportunities on the 4th and 2nd line, so they average about 15 minutes per game.
82x15=1,230
72x18=1,296

The difference is minimal.

We had 2 forwards average over 2 minutes a night on the kill last year, so even if we are handing over the keys to Pospisil to be our go to PK guy on the season for god knows what reason, our 4th line would still be getting about 13 minutes a night for that. Last year it got about 7-10. Ditto for Zary. PP2 got 1:30-2 minutes last year. Plus 15 minutes a night is literally a downgrade for him as well.

Can’t believe the mental gymnastics going on here, people are arguing that centering a guy who if he wasn’t a 1st round pick wouldn’t have been one of the final 20 forwards in camp and Ryan Lomberg can be just as good of an opportunity as playing with Backlund and Coleman or Huberdeau and Mantha, as long as you wildly overplay them. Lomberg’s goal totals last year and Pelletier’s career goal totals add up to 11.

Edit: I may have been tired and misunderstood your point, but I still don’t think it’s feasible. It’d be a stretch to imagine that 4th line playing more than 8-9 minutes, but for arguments sake we will say 10 minutes with special teams bumping that up to roughly 12 minutes. That would mean they would need to play 18 minutes a night when they aren’t there to average your magical 15 minute number, which only Backlund and Kadri played last year. Once again, all for a guy like Zary to average less minutes than last year and spend half his year with linemates capable of negative amounts of offense. This is an all around terrible idea.

 

[Lunatik]

Honzek can play in AHL this season, right? so there's no 9 game contract slide thing, unless he's sent to CHL

His contract will still slide in the AHL.

The rule for ELC slides is based on signing age and GP. If the signing age is 18, it can slide for 2 years. If the signing age is 19, it can slide for 1 year. At a signing age of 20 or older, the contract cannot slide. But if a player signs when they are 19, but turn 20 before the end of the calendar year, their signing age is considered to be 20.

The birthdays of Honzek and Brzustewicz are 12 days apart, both born in 2004...

• Honzek signed at 18, so his contract is slide eligible.
• Brzustewicz signed at 19 in the calendar year he turns 20, so his contract is ineligible to slide.

 

[Kahvi]

I've always thought it's about playing pro or not, so playing in NHL or AHL would be the same.

 

[Lunatik]

I've always thought it's about playing pro or not, so playing in NHL or AHL would be the same.

Most do because it's rare it is allowed. Basically a guy needs to be drafted out of Europe or the College path, or go the CHL path and be born between Sept 16 and December 31. Most European prospects that aren't yet NHL caliber stay in Europe, most college guys do teh same (but college).

But I learned when Kylington was assigned to the Heat @ 18 that pro contracts can still slide. This is a quote from a recent post that shows that.

Yes, it still slides. The NHL and CHL have different rules to determine age. While Honzek is 20 by CHL standards, he is still 19 by NHL standards. Contracts slide up to the July 1 two years after they were first eligible to be drafted, or when they play their 10th NHL game; whichever comes first.

For instance, Kylington since he was drafted out of Sweden, he was AHL eligible immediately and was assigned there. The first 2 years of his ELC contract still slid due to his age/signing age. (If you sign at 18 it can slide 2 years, 19 it can slide 1 year, and 20 it doesn't slide... with an exception if the player signs @ 19 and turns 20 before Dec 31, like Brzustewicz)

View attachment 912255
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[Kranix]

Except no one's being punished in this case. Rooney doesn't count because he's irrelevant.

Being on decent 4th line getting roughly 10 minutes a game is not a punishment, especially with Huska literally saying he's gone run 4 lines.

It all comes down the simple ability to think longterm versus short term reactionary moves. It's the reason why they they signed Mantha & Barrie, kept Hanley & Rooney on the roster, why they waived Solovyov & Pelletier - it's always about the short term with this franchise.

Why does the "4th line" have to be a punishment tool?

 

[Rubi]

Why does the "4th line" have to be a punishment tool?

I agree. Niormally the 4th line is where you park your plumbers and neanderthals and because of the talent level their ice time is limited. It doesn't have to be this way.

 

[Kranix]

Sort of confused where Calgary is coming from here, being in a rebuild and all. Not that I think Pelts will be much outside of a depth guy in his career; but choosing a bunch of depth vets over him is confusing.

The contract thing.
The coming into camp looking lost.
The mediocre preseason.

He didn’t help himself here either.

I think he’ll pass through, I think his calibre and especially his size will have people passing. I could see Montreal maybe, just because of the nationality thing.

He's a washed band-aid at 23. Keeping him in the NHL because he was drafted 26th overall more than the average NHL career length ago and "has a motor" sends the wrong message too, even for a rebuilding team.

 

[Figgy44]

So Pelletier should be gifted a spot so you can have Zary or Pospisil, players who are better than him, down on the 4th line which will get them less ice-time and stall their development time so Pelletier who didn't outwork anyone in camp can stay on the team.

That's stupid. It also disrespects all 50 players who have contracts on the Flames saying essentially that hard work doesn't matter, waiver status does. Again, that's stupid.

I don't fully view it that way. Pelletier would be gifted enough rope for a full season to figure out if he succeeds or fails. He's gifted a spot to show if he's playing himself off the team or onto the NHL roster. I think that's valid. It'd be fine if it's not a gifted position where he can basically do no wrong. It's fine if he's "gifted a position" but the stakes are really high and in the end, he only has himself to blame if he doesn't succeed. I think it also makes sense to do that with how his contract is and what is age is and years he's been with the org. I think it's a fair compromise to approach it like that.

If he fails, the org chooses to try someone else and releases him to find a better opportunity elsewhere. If he succeeds, then the test is successful and he's proven he's a full time NHLer. If it's in between, you don't have the right type of evidence to make a strong decision one way or another. I like Pelts so I hope he succeeds, but I understand why some of you want to move past him instead.

 

[josra33]

I saw Sharangovich on week to week injury? What happened to him now?

 

[Rubi]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843330755910664330

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843336955347775709

 

[HighLifeMan]

So we are electing to expose Pelletier so that waiver ineligible Coronato can start the year as our 13th forward instead?

Seems like a great decision.

 

[Lunatik]

So we are electing to expose Pelletier so that waiver ineligible Coronato can start the year as our 13th forward instead?

Seems like a great decision.

Remember Sharangovich is hurt, and Honzek may only be up a few games. Easier to sneak Pelletier through now while waivers are overloaded than in a few weeks

 

[Figgy44]

So we are electing to expose Pelletier so that waiver ineligible Coronato can start the year as our 13th forward instead?

Seems like a great decision.

I agree that I think it's an attempt to sneak him down.

I'm also in agreement with others where I'm not sure where we go from this direction. More patience and another year of sell off? Or will Conroy start retooling now (too early? quant for qual trades?)?

 

[Rubi]

Tough to refute this logic...

https://x.com/i/web/status/1842995700294209939

 

[josra33]

When do they announce waiver pickups? 24 hours?

 

[Lunatik]

When do they announce waiver pickups? 24 hours?

usually takes us 15-45 min to learn about waivers results

or Steinberg is on the ball

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843351974093435005

 

[tmurfin]

He cleared. Everyone can stop with the drama now, yeesh.

 

[Mobiandi]

Vegas also took Edmonton’s Lavoie. That’s a barebones team over there taking both of our mediocre AHLers

There was never any danger of Pelletier getting claimed. Glad we can move on