WC: 2024 IIHF Division IA, Bolzano

[Gianpaolo]

my bad, meant among players selected

(but I agree with Suikkanen)

Players coming from the Alps Hockey Leagues were in troubles with the speed of the game in the tournament, just think of the terrible mistake by Amorosa before the first goal scored by Hungary. Pascal Brunner, Luca Felicetti, Dante Hannoun and Marco Zanetti are all quick skaters but were all cut before the tournament started. I think back at the situation shortly before the end of the second period against Hungary: the goalkeeper makes a save, the slow moving Ivan De Luca fails to get the rebound, holds an opponet and gets a two minutes penalty forcing Italy to start the last period with four players on the ice.

 

[aquaregia]

Mmm especially in retrospect not picking Zanetti seems like a very curious decision, particularly after I got the impression he was one of Italy's more dangerous forwards last year.

 

[sanis]

I wonder, @Albatros, how you came to the conclusion that the Hungarian fans (cca 1500-2000 people in bolzano aged between 1 and 80 years ) are a "bunch of fascists" .

You might base your opinion on some stupid football ultras who joined the regular hockey fans on one of the elite wc's, if my memory serves me well. Can't think of much else because the Hungarian hockey fans are peaceful and the matches here are family events.

Don't be like those football ultras and don't generalise your view based on the behaviour of x nr of people. (Or do it but then you are not more nuanced than those fascists.)

BTW even on a football game they are a (loud) minority, not the norm.

I hurt my eyes to see such a comment on an intelligent thread like this.

 

[Albatros]

I wonder, @Albatros, how you came to the conclusion that the Hungarian fans (cca 1500-2000 people in bolzano aged between 1 and 80 years ) are a "bunch of fascists" .

You might base your opinion on some stupid football ultras who joined the regular hockey fans on one of the elite wc's, if my memory serves me well. Can't think of much else because the Hungarian hockey fans are peaceful and the matches here are family events.

Don't be like those football ultras and don't generalise your view based on the behaviour of x nr of people. (Or do it but then you are not more nuanced than those fascists.)

BTW even on a football game they are a (loud) minority, not the norm.

I hurt my eyes to see such a comment on an intelligent thread like this.

I've been attending Team Hungary games at these tournaments in person and it's never been a good experience. Of course not all Hungarian hockey fans are fascist hooligans, but the number of those that are is significant enough for the support as a whole to become distasteful. It's up to the Hungarians themselves to clean up their act and get rid of these elements, no one else.

For example the hooligan group "Carpathian Brigade '09" has been present in such numbers:

 

[sanis]

I've been attending Team Hungary games at these tournaments in person and it's never been a good experience. Of course not all Hungarian hockey fans are fascist hooligans, but the number of those that are is significant enough for the support as a whole to become distasteful. It's up to the Hungarians themselves to clean up their act and get rid of these elements, no one else.

For example the hooligan group "Carpathian Brigade '09" has been present in such numbers:

I give it to you that these football ultras joined some of the wc games recentoy where they felt they can cause international noise but these guys almost NEVER come to local hockey games (home wc, home friendly games of the national team, club games). You just don't see them there, it's easily visible because they wear this stupid black t shirt that just doesnt resemble any Hungarian symbol. They don't care about hockey, you might know more Hungarian players than they do.

Carpathian bridge is an ultra group from the football scene, and if anything, it would be the job of the Hungarian football association (and possibly hockey federation) to stop them, or make it harder for them to access game as long as they sing obscene songs without any respect for the other nations. But as you might know, this is a general problem in (especially Eastern) European football.

I don't know what exactly you expect from the "normal" fans, how exactly they should stop football ultras from attending certain hockey games played abroad.

I might be a pessimist, or I might lack certain creative energies that you do possess.

 

[sanis]

I give it to you that these football ultras joined some of the wc games recentoy where they felt they can cause international noise but these guys almost NEVER come to local hockey games (home wc, home friendly games of the national team, club games). You just don't see them there, it's easily visible because they wear this stupid black t shirt that just doesnt resemble any Hungarian symbol. They don't care about hockey, you might know more Hungarian players than they do.

Carpathian bridge is an ultra group from the football scene, and if anything, it would be the job of the Hungarian football association (and possibly hockey federation) to stop them, or make it harder for them to access game as long as they sing obscene songs without any respect for the other nations. But as you might know, this is a general problem in (especially Eastern) European football.

I don't know what exactly you expect from the "normal" fans, how exactly they should stop football ultras from attending certain hockey games played abroad.

I might be a pessimist, or I might lack certain creative energies that you do possess.

BTW never heard such a song from them on a hockey game but on football matches they are awful and I do share your view on them. Hate to admit it.

I saw hundreds of pics and videos about the fans in bolzano and I haven't spotted these guys there, fortunately. Again, it's boring for them, just regular div1a hockey.

 

[Albatros]

I give it to you that these football ultras joined some of the wc games recentoy where they felt they can cause international noise but these guys almost NEVER come to local hockey games (home wc, home friendly games of the national team, club games). You just don't see them there, it's easily visible because they wear this stupid black t shirt that just doesnt resemble any Hungarian symbol. They don't care about hockey, you might know more Hungarian players than they do.

Carpathian bridge is an ultra group from the football scene, and if anything, it would be the job of the Hungarian football association (and possibly hockey federation) to stop them, or make it harder for them to access game as long as they sing obscene songs without any respect for the other nations. But as you might know, this is a general problem in (especially Eastern) European football.

I don't know what exactly you expect from the "normal" fans, how exactly they should stop football ultras from attending certain hockey games played abroad.

I might be a pessimist, or I might lack certain creative energies that you do possess.

It may certainly be challenging for other fans to keep extremist hooligans away even if they wanted to, fair enough, but at least they shouldn't adopt contentious symbolism themselves as has too often been the case.

For example here we can see a group of presumably genuine hockey fans that certainly do not appear especially threatening. Yet even they are - whether malicious or not - predominantly waving the Hungarian war flag (hadizászló) from 1939-45 when the country was allied with Nazi Germany and attempted to annex partially ethnic Hungarian territories of neighboring countries by force. To go with it also somewhat controversial flags of the Hungarian minorities in Romania and Slovakia. These were prominently displayed at this year's tournament as well even without the hooligans attending.

There was also this creation that combines the flag of Hungary and that of the Hungarian minority in Romania (created in 2004) under the imperial coat of arms that was in use until 1918 and today serves as a revanchist symbol for Greater Hungary.

To me this is just very poor sportsmanship, especially when playing against teams of countries like Romania and Slovenia that once partially were but most definitely do not wish again to be a part of the Greater Hungarian empire. If it was a German team playing against Poland and the fans displayed a flag featuring Germany and Silesia united under the imperial Reichsadler I have to think there would be consequences. And there should be.

 

[namttebih]

Coming in admittedly completely ignorant here, but looking at the trend, is Hungarian hockey on the rise? Third promotion in the last decade. What has sparked the change.

Conversely, I was surprised to see Italy where it is. Where is their program right now?

 

[Albatros]

Does Italy have a program? They still haven't created an independent ice hockey federation (all ice sports remain under one umbrella) and they rely heavily on local production by clubs in South Tyrol or sometimes the Aosta Valley that occurs rather despite than because of the FISG efforts.

 

[weklof]

Seems like Italy has regression a lot. They used to be a regular fixture in the top division ans now they can't even qualify when two more slots are open due to the suspensions.

Or maybe Italy has stand still while the others have improved. But they used to be ahead of France, Hungary, Slovenia etc

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

It may certainly be challenging for other fans to keep extremist hooligans away even if they wanted to, fair enough, but at least they shouldn't adopt contentious symbolism themselves as has too often been the case.

For example here we can see a group of presumably genuine hockey fans that certainly do not appear especially threatening. Yet even they are - whether malicious or not - predominantly waving the Hungarian war flag (hadizászló) from 1939-45 when the country was allied with Nazi Germany and attempted to annex partially ethnic Hungarian territories of neighboring countries by force. To go with it also somewhat controversial flags of the Hungarian minorities in Romania and Slovakia. These were prominently displayed at this year's tournament as well even without the hooligans attending.

There was also this creation that combines the flag of Hungary and that of the Hungarian minority in Romania (created in 2004) under the imperial coat of arms that was in use until 1918 and today serves as a revanchist symbol for Greater Hungary.

To me this is just very poor sportsmanship, especially when playing against teams of countries like Romania and Slovenia that once partially were but most definitely do not wish again to be a part of the Greater Hungarian empire. If it was a German team playing against Poland and the fans displayed a flag featuring Germany and Silesia united under the imperial Reichsadler I have to think there would be consequences. And there should be.

And here I thought this discussion was about a hockey tournament.

 

[Friar85]

Coming in admittedly completely ignorant here, but looking at the trend, is Hungarian hockey on the rise? Third promotion in the last decade. What has sparked the change.

Conversely, I was surprised to see Italy where it is. Where is their program right now?

I am no expert on Hungarian hockey but I used to see the Hungarian national boy's U16 team at tournaments in the US. My son played against them twice. It really impressed me that Hungary was that invested in their hockey program. Just from casually following European hockey it seems that France and Hungary are really going the extra mile in an attempt to develop a strong indigenous program.

 

[namttebih]

I am no expert on Hungarian hockey but I used to see the Hungarian national boy's U16 team at tournaments in the US. My son played against them twice. It really impressed me that Hungary was that invested in their hockey program. Just from casually following European hockey it seems that France and Hungary are really going the extra mile in an attempt to develop a strong indigenous program.

Who does your son play for?

 

[Friar85]

Who does your son play for?

I worked in federal law enforcement, so we moved quite a bit. He would have been playing in the Jr Coyotes program at that time I believe.

 

[PanniniClaus]

I am no expert on Italian Hockey. In the past they have leaned on dual nationals, mainly Canadians with the odd American thrown in.

They almost always had a goaltender or two of quality right from the 80's through the Olympics they hosted in 2006. They were usually dual nationals.

I am not sure how it has happened but this seems to be their golden age of prospects.. Damian Clara is homegrown.. Their recent U20 team had Tomasso De Luca, Purdeller, Robis, Segafredo, Josef Prast on D (16).

Maybe someone can comment on how this came to be. The fact they couldn't qualify for the top division while hosting the Div 1 A was a huge failure.. massive..

 

[trust no one]

I am no expert on Italian Hockey. In the past they have leaned on dual nationals, mainly Canadians with the odd American thrown in.

Helped by the fact that new nations (Latvia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Slovakia) all started from pool C, so that gave them breathing room in Elite group. They did play in quarters several times before aforementioned nations reached Elite.