Let's not retcon Wood too hard as a "he was unfairly pilloried for a lack of numbers!" guy.
Wood was underappreciated because after getting drafted in the 4th round, he played 2 more years of High School hockey. That is, to put it extremely generously, a non-traditional path to NHL success.
Voted for Hatakka because he was rhe best option available - though he is a bit older than the rest of this group and will likely have to move to another organization to get an NHL shot.
Would have voted for either of the two high profile goalie prospects - Brennan or Yegorov - or Stillman but none are options yet.
I went Karpovich at #5 and am going with him again at #6. He's 6'3-210 -- a good skater who plays physical, shut-down D. Though he's never going to be a 50-60 point PP QB, we can't deny that he's pretty good with the puck and has a bomb of a shot, which gives him some potential to put up some scoring numbers. I'm bullish on his potential.
I see Hatakka is getting some votes, and though I like his ability to develop into a depth defenseman I think his potential is limited compared to some of the names on this list.
It looks like Vilen is in the lead and that's not a bad call at all, he's certainly in the same stratosphere as Karpovich. We could also say the same about Misyul, Orlov and Barabosha in my opinion. Any one of these 5 names could still develop into a good mid-pairing NHLer, but there is also the obvious fact that none of them have Silayev-type can't-miss ability and any could plateau off as an AHL guy or depth guy. Time will certainly tell.
I'd add Yegorov to the list. Though goalies are tough to project as teenagers, I'd say he has the most pure upside of all the NJ goaltending prospects.
On the contrary, Stillman is far more likely to have an NHL career than some of the players being discussed here. In fact, the trajectory of his career is looking similar to his father, a former first round pick who played 18 years and won two Stanley Cups.
Players like Wood, McLeod and Bastian were woefully under appreciated as prospects on these boards because they didn't have eye opening offensive numbers. I suspect Stillman is receiving the same treatment.
In sports like baseball or football, it is often advantageous to take players whose father's coach because they grow up around their respective games. Don't think the Devils drafted Stillman (and certainly not in the first round) just because his dad and Tom Fitzgerald were former teammates. There are a lot or players whose fathers played with Fitz.
Bastian was very good positional / defensive forward. And Ty Smith/Riley Walsh were specific defensemen. Vilen, Orlov, Misyul, Karpovich are very different product. And I voted earlier for Bastian.
And Stillman isn’t good defensive forward. You are trying to use examples of different players, but Stillman isn’t Bastian, McLeod and Wood. He is Stillman with his weaknesses and advantages, with his history of production and reasons why it is on his level. Wood was productive for college.
If you want to find “Bastian” there are some good defensive defensemen with good skating and positioning.
What we can learn from this pool? Gritsyuk, Sharangovich and their rank. Mercer is behind Holtz and freaking Smith. May be it’s time to listen Guadana more often?
None of these prospects have anywhere near the ceiling Yegorov has; again, really not sure how a 2nd round prospect is not listed here. Hattaka and Karpovich over Yegorov? Lmfao thats... just not right
None of these prospects have anywhere near the ceiling Yegorov has; again, really not sure how a 2nd round prospect is not listed here. Hattaka and Karpovich over Yegorov? Lmfao thats... just not right
There are tonns of second round goalies in the league with very limited responsibilities or outside of the league. There are enough candidates who can grow into the third pair or even second pair defenseman. Yegorov can grow into the starter but he can grow into the backup. He is only in the beggining of the path and even on the bad team but still his stats were not so impressive. Overall goalies and skaters should be in different pools.
None of these prospects have anywhere near the ceiling Yegorov has; again, really not sure how a 2nd round prospect is not listed here. Hattaka and Karpovich over Yegorov? Lmfao thats... just not right
i try not to think too much about draft position anymore after 2014. The Devils picked 6 guys in 5 rounds and none of them were any better than the other. And all of them looked worst than the next 10 picks after them.
Plus Yegorov is an 18yo Russian goalie so it’s probably gonna be ~7 years before i even have to remember who he is.
There are tonns of second round goalies in the league with very limited responsibilities or outside of the league. There are enough candidates who can grow into the third pair or even second pair defenseman. Yegorov can grow into the starter but he can grow into the backup. He is only in the beggining of the path and even on the bad team but still his stats were not so impressive. Overall goalies and skaters should be in different pools.
I agree they should be in different pools; but for the sake of this thread they arent. so not having a recent 2nd round pick over 5th rounders from four years ago is... odd, to say the least
i try not to think too much about draft position anymore after 2014. The Devils picked 6 guys in 5 rounds and none of them were any better than the other. And all of them looked worst than the next 10 picks after them.
Plus Yegorov is an 18yo Russian goalie so it’s probably gonna be ~7 years before i even have to remember who he is.
I agree they should be in different pools; but for the sake of this thread they arent. so not having a recent 2nd round pick over 5th rounders from four years ago is... odd, to say the least
It isnt. For example Gritsyuk has much clearer path to NHL than Yegorov. And his role can be more important. Number of the year of the draft and number of round means nothing. We have Stillman and we have him all the time. Salminen was drafted in the third round, Karpovich was drafted in the 6th round. This organisation drafted Bratt, Sharangovich and Gritsyuk in 5-6 rounds, we should be the first team in the league who should not care about the number of the draft.
It isnt. For example Gritsyuk has much clearer path to NHL than Yegorov. And his role can be more important. Number of the year of the draft and number of round means nothing. We have Stillman and we have him all the time. Salminen was drafted in the third round, Karpovich was drafted in the 6th round. This organisation drafted Bratt, Sharangovich and Gritsyuk in 5-6 rounds, we should be the first team in the league who should not care about the number of the draft.
Gritsyuk, though applicable to my comment, wasnt exactly who I was referencing; clearly hes a stud prospect for us
Karpovich doesnt hold a candle to Yegorov's talent and I like Karpovich; Yegorov was unanimously seen as the most talented goalie weve drafted since before Blackwood - and Blackwood got on these lists immediately back then, as did Daws IIRC
Gritsyuk, though applicable to my comment, wasnt exactly who I was referencing; clearly hes a stud prospect for us
Karpovich doesnt hold a candle to Yegorov's talent and I like Karpovich; Yegorov was unanimously seen as the most talented goalie weve drafted since before Blackwood - and Blackwood got on these lists immediately back then, as did Daws IIRC
Gritsyuk, though applicable to my comment, wasnt exactly who I was referencing; clearly hes a stud prospect for us
Karpovich doesnt hold a candle to Yegorov's talent and I like Karpovich; Yegorov was unanimously seen as the most talented goalie weve drafted since before Blackwood - and Blackwood got on these lists immediately back then, as did Daws IIRC
Daws was number one NA goalie, Brennan was number one American goalie as I remember. My goalie guys saying Yegorov has talent and vision, but he has his own weaknesses.
So with goalies I’m temper my expectations and always not giving them my votes.
I think as others noted above, people are a bit gushy about goalies. Beyond that, he's a bit of a mystery. We don't seem to have the variety of video breakdowns and evaluations as we do with Silayev to remove some of the mystery surrounding his play. I'm sure after a season where fans actually watch his video his ranking will change. I always struggle to rank a prospect I haven't at least watched some video about or watched a game or two.
But he doesn't play in Russia. He's in the USHL. After this upcoming season, he's supposed to be heading to the NCAA. I think you could see him in the AHL in like 3 years if he's really good in the NCAA. That's basically the Devon Levi path, tbh (minus the USHL part). D + 2 and D+3 in NCAA then sign.
Daws was number one NA goalie, Brennan was number one American goalie as I remember. My goalie guys saying Yegorov has talent and vision, but he has his own weaknesses.
So with goalies I’m temper my expectations and always not giving them my votes.
Bastian is an outlier. It’s extremely rare for a forward who isn’t a PPG in Canadian Juniors after their draft to play in the NHL. It’s extremely rare for a forward who averaged 0.43 PPG in the AHL to play in the NHL.
Bastian has several advanges over Stillman, the biggest being size and the other is a better hockey sense. He’s an excellent defensive forward though he’s not an ideal NHL PKer because of his lack of speed.
He also scored 11 goals in 60 games for us in 2022-23 because he got PP time as a net front guy. Again, because of his size, plus his decent hands and our void at that position.
Stillman is a vaguely interesting prospect, I’ll be voting for him soon enough, because our prospect pool depth sucks balls. He should arguably already be on here. There’s a very good chance we don’t sign Barabosha, no idea why a 7th round pick is on this now before a signed recent 1st and a new 2nd round pick.
Stillman’s pros are his skating is ok and he has a fantastic motor, which makes look like he has potential. He buzzes around and goes to the net. Unfortunately the hockey sense isn’t there, so he’s moving his feet and chasing things rather than processing the game.
The other issue is while he’s physical, he’s only listed at 6’1” 185 and I’m not sure how good a hitter he is. He’s also adorkable in every video I’ve seen, seems like a sweet kid, so I don’t know if he has the temperament for the pest role.
TLDR Stillman has an elite motor and good skating but not sure what else he’s bringing to a bottom six. Lacks size, so his physicality might not be all that effective. Seemingly lacks hockey sense, so won’t excel as a two-way player or defensively. Tough to have much value as a winger who doesn’t play special teams.
EPRinkside’s Prospect Rankings do a good job of tracking drafted prospects.
Sept 29, 2021 Ranking (2021-22 Devils ranked #11)
Note they rated Hockey Sense 6 here, after he was drafted. (Don’t note the DOB, Drafted, AHL Stats, because those are accidentally Aarne Talvitie’s, but the grades on the left are his.)
Born out of the bounty that saw Travis Zajac and Kyle Palmieri go to the New York Islanders, the New Jersey Devils selected the human locomotive of the 2021 draft, Chase Stillman, with the 29th pick.
This excerpt from the Elite Prospects 2021 Draft Guide describes Stillman's game to a tee, "Call it motor or energy or engagement or drive -- Stillman has it. He is willing to go above and beyond, willing to play whatever role needed to the maximum of his ability to give his team the win. Every game for him, you saw constant pressure on the forecheck, constant pressure on the backcheck, and rapid close-outs in the defensive zone -- and speed, more speed than we remembered from the previous OHL season. There are better skaters than Stillman in the draft, but few who move with the same energy. The Sudbury Wolves forward finished with one of the best expected goals and offensive-zone retrievals per 60 at the [U-18] tournament."
Stillman is somewhat limited in terms of dynamic offensive qualities, more specifically in how his handling and skating blend together. He struggles to string actions together in motion, static feet being the main issue.
The St. Louis-born winger has a lot of qualities to like, however. On top of his already high motor, Stillman protects the puck at an above-average level, and generally can execute high-level plays. Plus peripheral vision, give-and-go ability, deception, and passing skills like one-touches, slips, and backhand facilitations highlight his game.
With a return to the OHL's Sudbury Wolves in the cards, Stillman will not only receive more opportunity to flex his motor, but the extra puck touches should help develop his playmaking even more. In the future, further defensive development, along with his high engagement level over the 200 feet of ice, should create a favourable situation for Stillman to become a useful bottom-six player.
He was a mystery box at the draft, due to the OHL, so this was a big update.
Passing down from 6, Hockey Sense down from 6, Physical up 5
Even my most pessimistic projection didn’t have Chase Stillman scoring just 49 points in 59 games. His draft-minus-one season featured less consistency than his peers but just as impressive highs as the best players in the age group. The midseason trade that sent him from a low-scoring team to an inconsistent, top-heavy one certainly didn’t help. However, it’s tough to see Stillman’s lack of success as anything other than disappointment.
There’s little doubt Stillman has the tools to be among the OHL’s leading scorers next season. It’s evident along the boards, where he combines finesse and power to pull pucks off the boards and step to the inside. Off the rush, he deceives opponents, then cuts across or drives the net. A quick, deceptive release houses a powerful shot, and when engaged, he shows the instincts necessary to support the shot.
Those impressive plays usually break up long stretches of limited impact. Stillman’s wasteful with touches in prime areas, blindly throwing pucks into space or trying to break through pressure himself with open teammates. A tendency to pass into defenders rather than around suggests he lacks the passing skill to access the lanes he identifies. And he often floats around and watches the play instead of taking an active hand in support or battling.
When Stillman’s engaged, he shows the off-puck instincts, positioning, and vision to link his numerous skills. In those moments, he looks like a potential top-nine with wrecking ball potential.
Sept 8 2023 Ranking (2023-24 Devils Ranked #11)
Ok, now they’re just kind of ticked off with how disappointing he is.
Passing has gone from 6 > 5.5 > 5
Hockey Sense 6 > 5 > 4.5
FV Tier 4.5 > 4 (which is a bad drop)
It's becoming increasingly difficult to try to justify or explain Chase Stillman's unremarkable counting stats.
He played a big role on a Memorial Cup contending team (albeit, one where many top prospects saw their bottom line dip) in his draft-plus-two season and didn't even come particularly close to cracking the point-per-game mark. In fact, his per-game offence dipped relative to the season prior.
What's perhaps most frustrating about this lack of production is that Stillman has physical tools that would easily pass muster in professional hockey. He's explosive and quick as a skater, overwhelmingly physical, and has a shot that can threaten from some distance.
Yet the sum has been less than the equal of its parts for two seasons now. This isn't an accident though. Stillman mostly attacks in straight lines, often directly into pressure. The end result is a mountain of turnovers and low-percentage shots. He has passing skill but lacks the patience or the cunning to let plays develop or create in the face of pressure. His off-puck offence is mostly characterized by screening the goaltender with little movement to get open for clean looks.
The lack of sophistication in Stillman's game at this point suggests that even if he gets back on track, there isn't a particularly high ceiling here. If he can develop into a crash-and-bang bottom-of-the-lineup winger, though, there's a lot of value in that. Even if it's not the sort of value the Devils expected out of a first-round pick.
Bastian was very good positional / defensive forward. And Ty Smith/Riley Walsh were specific defensemen. Vilen, Orlov, Misyul, Karpovich are very different product. And I voted earlier for Bastian.
And Stillman isn’t good defensive forward. You are trying to use examples of different players, but Stillman isn’t Bastian, McLeod and Wood. He is Stillman with his weaknesses and advantages, with his history of production and reasons why it is on his level. Wood was productive for college.
If you want to find “Bastian” there are some good defensive defensemen with good skating and positioning.
What we can learn from this pool? Gritsyuk, Sharangovich and their rank. Mercer is behind Holtz and freaking Smith. May be it’s time to listen Guadana more often?
We all can make mistakes situationally. More important how it works in system.
In the first year I voted as top 5\6 devils prospect. I really dont know why I did it, but still. I changed my mind in a second after I watched a couple of games of him after that.
Bastian is an outlier. It’s extremely rare for a forward who isn’t a PPG in Canadian Juniors after their draft to play in the NHL. It’s extremely rare for a forward who averaged 0.43 PPG in the AHL to play in the NHL.
Bastian has several advanges over Stillman, the biggest being size and the other is a better hockey sense. He’s an excellent defensive forward though he’s not an ideal NHL PKer because of his lack of speed.
He also scored 11 goals in 60 games for us in 2022-23 because he got PP time as a net front guy. Again, because of his size, plus his decent hands and our void at that position.
Stillman is a vaguely interesting prospect, I’ll be voting for him soon enough, because our prospect pool depth sucks balls. He should arguably already be on here. There’s a very good chance we don’t sign Barabosha, no idea why a 7th round pick is on this now before a signed recent 1st and a new 2nd round pick.
Stillman’s pros are his skating is ok and he has a fantastic motor, which makes look like he has potential. He buzzes around and goes to the net. Unfortunately the hockey sense isn’t there, so he’s moving his feet and chasing things rather than processing the game.
The other issue is while he’s physical, he’s only listed at 6’1” 185 and I’m not sure how good a hitter he is. He’s also adorkable in every video I’ve seen, seems like a sweet kid, so I don’t know if he has the temperament for the pest role.
TLDR Stillman has an elite motor and good skating but not sure what else he’s bringing to a bottom six. Lacks size, so his physicality might not be all that effective. Seemingly lacks hockey sense, so won’t excel as a two-way player or defensively. Tough to have much value as a winger who doesn’t play special teams.
EPRinkside’s Prospect Rankings do a good job of tracking drafted prospects.
Sept 29, 2021 Ranking (2021-22 Devils ranked #11) View attachment 897263
Note they rated Hockey Sense 6 here, after he was drafted. (Don’t note the DOB, Drafted, AHL Stats, because those are accidentally Aarne Talvitie’s, but the grades on the left are his.)
Passing down from 6, Hockey Sense down from 6, Physical up 5
Sept 8 2023 Ranking (2023-24 Devils Ranked #11) View attachment 897273
Ok, now they’re just kind of ticked off with how disappointing he is.
Passing has gone from 6 > 5.5 > 5
Hockey Sense 6 > 5 > 4.5
FV Tier 4.5 > 4 (which is a bad drop)
Mostly Barabosha understand where he should be on a pro level as a D+2 player. Stillman didnt as a D+3 on a lower AHL level. Barabosha isnt really fast but still has motor.
Again I think Stillman will have a chance to play in NHL because he was former first rounder, because motor, because family, NA born blah blah. Still not a better prospect than many on this list. And Barabosha isnt my top-10 prospect of the devils btw too. Being far away from NHL is one of the reason too.
Orlov and Karpovich both were in the training camp, both said many times they are connecting with Devils. So there are no reason to pick Stillman over Orlov, Karpovich, as over Hattaka, Vilen and Misyul.
Except only the same wrong reasons why people made the same mistakes when they made wrong picks year after year after year. Again - its just a board. If everybody will decide to pick Salminen as a 7th best prospect because he is playing in NA, he is rare center and he is... big I guess, he will not become better prospect than most.
Like Holtz wasnt better prospect than Mercer after the draft. Who knew it? Those who voted for Mercer.
Bastian was very good positional / defensive forward. And Ty Smith/Riley Walsh were specific defensemen. Vilen, Orlov, Misyul, Karpovich are very different product. And I voted earlier for Bastian.
And Stillman isn’t good defensive forward. You are trying to use examples of different players, but Stillman isn’t Bastian, McLeod and Wood. He is Stillman with his weaknesses and advantages, with his history of production and reasons why it is on his level. Wood was productive for college.
If you want to find “Bastian” there are some good defensive defensemen with good skating and positioning.
What we can learn from this pool? Gritsyuk, Sharangovich and their rank. Mercer is behind Holtz and freaking Smith. May be it’s time to listen Guadana more often?
Bastian was very good positional / defensive forward. And Ty Smith/Riley Walsh were specific defensemen. Vilen, Orlov, Misyul, Karpovich are very different product. And I voted earlier for Bastian.
And Stillman isn’t good defensive forward. You are trying to use examples of different players, but Stillman isn’t Bastian, McLeod and Wood. He is Stillman with his weaknesses and advantages, with his history of production and reasons why it is on his level. Wood was productive for college.
If you want to find “Bastian” there are some good defensive defensemen with good skating and positioning.
What we can learn from this pool? Gritsyuk, Sharangovich and their rank. Mercer is behind Holtz and freaking Smith. May be it’s time to listen Guadana more often?
None of these prospects have anywhere near the ceiling Yegorov has; again, really not sure how a 2nd round prospect is not listed here. Hattaka and Karpovich over Yegorov? Lmfao thats... just not right
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