2024 Draft Discussion

[lilidk]

They do if player wants out, like Necas does now and Cat felled to our lap. Tkachuk and Gaudreau also wanted to leave Canada, maybe Kyle Connor is the next good ol' 'merican boy who wants to come home. Finding next Marchand, Point or Datsyuk is easier said than done, no one can't really rely on that they find one.

MBN a bit boring? You mean he's boring because he ain't soft perimeter dangler who's only trying to score Michigan's? Strong physical forechecker with a hard shot is what i would call a effective player. Far from boring.

Tkachuk Larkin Raymond line could be something , but price could be crazy , but I prefer Yzerman spends something on true first line LD

 

[RabidBadger]

I liked Moore at 17OA, but I think ASP was too good to pass up.

If you watched Moore regularly last year you would have been disappointed if we chose him over ASP. He produced well enough but his hockey sense was highly questionable. The physical tools are there, no doubt, but he expends way too much energy during his ice time and does not end up being an impact.

I may eat these words in the future but for now I'm very happy he's not a Wing. I will add he was on my short list of players I was hoping we'd draft.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Tkachuk Larkin Raymond line could be something , but price could be crazy , but I prefer Yzerman spends something on true first line LD

Or wait for the draft capital to develop.

Tkachuk is a pipe dream. Just my opinion.

 

[lilidk]

If you watched Moore regularly last year you would have been disappointed if we chose him over ASP. He produced well enough but his hockey sense was highly questionable. The physical tools are there, no doubt, but he expends way too much energy during his ice time and does not end up being an impact.

I may eat these words in the future but for now I'm very happy he's not a Wing. I will add he was on my short list of players I was hoping we'd draft.

Moore was in my no draft for reasons you said but many believe that he was top 10. Danielson should not last 15 for me and ASP should gone couple spots earlier. Didn't expect any of them be available. Benson and Dvorsky were my choices at 9 and at 17 between Willander, Yager or Wood.
Yzerman likes to draft players who are hard to play against, ASP is different and I like him to get more guy like that

 

[lilidk]

Dobberprospects top 128 just came out

https://dobberprospects.com/2024/06/16/2024-nhl-draft-rankings-dobberprospects-final-top-128/

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

If you watched Moore regularly last year you would have been disappointed if we chose him over ASP. He produced well enough but his hockey sense was highly questionable. The physical tools are there, no doubt, but he expends way too much energy during his ice time and does not end up being an impact.

I may eat these words in the future but for now I'm very happy he's not a Wing. I will add he was on my short list of players I was hoping we'd draft.

Agreed. His best asset is that he's fast.

 

[Gniwder]

Agreed. His best asset is that he's fast.

Helm with slightly better hands?

 

[Pavels Dog]

MBN a bit boring? You mean he's boring because he ain't soft perimeter dangler who's only trying to score Michigan's? Strong physical forechecker with a hard shot is what i would call a effective player. Far from boring.

And it's not like he doesn't have skill.

 

[SantosHalper]

And it's not like he doesn't have skill.

Good old fashioned LIMITED OFFENSIVE ABILITY

 

[Frk It]

And it's not like he doesn't have skill.

If that first play is proof of being skilled than everyone is skilled, lol.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If that first play is proof of being skilled than everyone is skilled, lol.

I haven't seen anyone post videos that show he isn't skilled though.

 

[Frk It]

I haven't seen anyone post videos that show he isn't skilled though.

If you think he’s skilled then why don’t you think he is ranked higher despite having a good frame, shot, compete, etc.?

 

[Pavels Dog]

If you think he’s skilled then why don’t you think he is ranked higher despite having a good frame, shot, compete, etc.?

Maybe there are other players with more skill and/or more enticing overall package when including position and production.
Question is if any of them will be available to us at 15 though.

 

[Frk It]

Maybe there are other players with more skill and/or more enticing overall package when including position and production.
Question is if any of them will be available to us at 15 though.

Yeah I’m trying to digest all the information on all these players still but I think I was listening to a podcast where someone asked why he’s not ranked higher and they said his puck skills are just ok. Is that a correct take? Not sure. But that combined with the scouting reports I’ve read is what gives me that impression. I don’t know that I have seen him enough to confidently say one way or another what the case is.

 

[HisNoodliness]

If you think he’s skilled then why don’t you think he is ranked higher despite having a good frame, shot, compete, etc.?

I think this is the question that people ignore when they say "why do people assume that the industrious forward with pro attributes has to have 'low upside.'" Clearly being industrious and having pro attributes doesn't make you automatically unskilled. It's just that to be available at 15 you have to lack somewhere. Obviously everything is a case by case basis though.

For my limited viewings of MBN, I think that he mostly lacks smarts/creativity. I've seen him skate a lot of pucks into opposing defenseman- and in very few games. I feel like if you built a brick wall between him and the net, he'd try to power through it at least ten times before he decided to try passing or skating around the wall. That's based upon a few games and I haven't seen any of the pro scouting services say the same thing, so take it with a grain of salt. He flashes hands. He flashes a nice shot (but getting several overrated around here IMO). Obviously he has great wheels, work ethic and physicality.

I think the other question I'd put to the MBN train is what qualities do you think he's noticeably better than Kasper was in his draft year? And try to remember how you viewed Kasper then, not now that he's been on a boring if steady development path for two years since. Try to remember when he still had the new toy shine to him.


By my eye, except for perhaps their shot, Kasper was better in every way, and I mostly made these same complaints about Kasper too. Certainly, I'm willing to roll the dice again and see if his development totally pops off this time- that's just part of drafting/developing- but that's how I see it.

 

[lilidk]

MBN has enough skills to be in the first line as support player. I prefer him over guy like Debrincat. He is Abdelkader +

 

[norrisnick]

MBN has enough skills to be in the first line as support player. I prefer him over guy like Debrincat. He is Abdelkader +

There aren't enough +s in existence to ever favorably argue for Abby being a first line player...

 

[lilidk]

There aren't enough +s in existence to ever favorably argue for Abby being a first line player...

Abby with Datsyuk and Zetterberg was dominant line . He helped more skilled guys to do their job. Most importantly Datsyuk liked to play with Aby.

 

[norrisnick]

Abby with Datsyuk and Zetterberg was dominant line . He helped more skilled guys to do their job. Most importantly Datsyuk liked to play with Aby.

Had literally nothing to do with Abby's play. Abby had all of 8 more point than Tinky Winky that season playing with those two. Swap spots and Tinky Winky would still be on our cap for buyout purposes...

 

[Henkka]

Holmström was never a 1st line player...

- But played on the 1st line!

- And won a Cup on the 1st line!

Many first lines at NHL have "not a 1st line players" at their first lines as complimentary players, and not understanding this is just sad hockey discussion.

 

[norrisnick]

Holmström was never a 1st line player...

- But played on the 1st line!

- And won a Cup on the 1st line!

Many first lines at NHL have "not a 1st line player" at their first lines as complimentary players, and not understanding this is just sad hockey discussion.

Holmstrom was twice the player that Abby was. And Homer was barely capable of playing up there.

We could have tossed Fischer on the top line as a "complementary player". Doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[lilidk]

Holmstrom was twice the player that Abby was. And Homer was barely capable of playing up there.

We could have tossed Fischer on the top line as a "complementary player". Doesn't make it a good idea.

We don't know unless we try that, what I know nether Veleno or Rasmussen good at that. Very important if those guys understand what skilled players trying to do and be supportive

 

[wingerdinger]

If you think he’s skilled then why don’t you think he is ranked higher despite having a good frame, shot, compete, etc.?

lack of exposure to a certain extent being norwegian, only joining a swedish club last year, playing mostly in allsveskan this past season not many nhl draft prospects in the league maybe hard for scouts to get a decent amount looks at him.

Just speculating.

David Pastranak was in a similar situation his draft year.

 

[19 for president]

We don't know unless we try that, what I know nether Veleno or Rasmussen good at that. Very important if those guys understand what skilled players trying to do and be supportive

Typically I feel like the guys that succeed in that role have a high IQ but lack a skill or two to make then a line driving player.

Homer had the IQ to play with skilled players but lacked the skating to be someone that could possess the puck a and drive play on his own. With that said though Z made the Homer/Dats/Z line work. Dats IQ was above everyone not named Z and Hull that he regularly played with. Hossa and Shanny did well stats wise with him but it was mostly due to the fact that guys couldn't cheat them with Dats on the ice rather than inherent chemistry.

The only way Abby put up points with Dats was when he shot the puck off him. I will always hate the contract. Abby was a great 4th liner, ok 3rd liner that should have never sniffed the top 2 lines. At least guys like Mac and Lapointe had some offensive sense to play up a line.

As for MBN I think it comes down to do you think his offensive skills have room for improvement and can translate at higher levels. He's the type of guy that I think contending teams would love to draft because he has all the makings of a great pain in the butt to play against 3rd liner. And when cost controlled that is a super valuable player. The question is does he have the makings of a top 6 PF, and as noted above that seems to be a bit TBD based on the level he has played. A good high floor TBD ceiling kind of guy. If Stevie and team think he has the higher ceiling I'd appreciate this pick, but if they think he is more of a gritty 3rd line guy when all is said and done I'd rather go after someone with more top 6 potential even if there is a higher rate of it being a bust.

I think he'd have major appeal to the below teams before us:
10. New Jersey Devils
11. Buffalo Sabres
12. Philadelphia Flyers
13. Minnesota Wild

Two teams in Jersey and Buffalo that are looking to make the playoffs, already have at least some high end skill, and could use some of the grit a guy like MBN could bring. Philly and the Wild are more TBD.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Maybe there are other players with more skill and/or more enticing overall package when including position and production.
Question is if any of them will be available to us at 15 though.

I think this is largely it. Even if you think a lack of high-end puck skills limits him offensively, what are the other available options bringing that make them more likely to produce more offensive (or contribute to the production of more offense).

I don't love MBN's profile early in the draft, but I have time for it in the mid first and later in most years.