Pre-Game Talk: 2024 Blues Training Camp Thread

[LGB]

Yep, I think Holloway ultimately fits the Thomas Kyrou line perfectly. He may not start there but I think he can get there.

I prefer to split Thomas and Kyrou if we can. That will be contingent on guys stepping up.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Dean will be one of those first call up guys. He's sticking around because our roster, already thin on centers, will need someone to play C for the final few preseason games. They're not going to trot out all the regulars for three more games.

 

[CurrentCS]

I prefer to split Thomas and Kyrou if we can. That will be contingent on guys stepping up.

I agree but the only way I do that right now is if Buchnevich is on Thomas line. I don't want him spending the year with a rookie and Schenn on his #1 line for example.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I think it was Chicago that posted a lineup a while back with the top 6 wingers being Kyrou, Neighbours, Bolduc, Holloway. We may not be far from that being reality relatively soon. The 26 year old JK is the old man of the group.
I think they will keep Holloway with Faksa on the 3rd line to start the season though.
Bannister likes the speed of Holloway and Joseph flanking Faksa for a line that he won't hesitate to play against the opponent's top line. Bannister mentioned that in an interview regarding the game last night vs the blackhawks.

For the record, I suck at line construction, but I typically like @CaliforniaBlues310 lines. I usually defer to others when it comes to depth. I sometimes get it right.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I still think they need a guy who can either step up or show up that can win a faceoff not named Thomas or Faksa. Buch, Dean, Holloway, etc. no one evidently has shown they can do it. Schenn isn’t that good either.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

For the record, I suck at line construction, but I typically like @CaliforniaBlues310 lines. I usually defer to others when it comes to depth. I sometimes get it right.

Once again I thank you for the support on those hahah

 

[BlueMed]

I still think they need a guy who can either step up or show up that can win a faceoff not named Thomas or Faksa. Buch, Dean, Holloway, etc. no one evidently has shown they can do it. Schenn isn’t that good either.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

Schenn was at 49.3% last season, and Holloway was at 57.4% (albeit a smaller sample size). I'm very bullish on Holloway and would like to start him on wing while Buchnevich starts the season as the 2C. At some point, I'd like to see Holloway trialed as the 2C because he has the foot speed and pace to play both ends of the ice pretty effectively and was drafted as a center.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Where are you getting your numbers from?

Schenn was at 49.3% last season, and Holloway was at 57.4% (albeit a smaller sample size). I'm very bullish on Holloway and would like to start him on wing while Buchnevich starts the season as the 2C. At some point, I'd like to see Holloway trialed as the 2C because he has the foot speed and pace to play both ends of the ice pretty effectively and was drafted as a center.

I agree. I would like to see Holloway, Saad, Kyrou no one could skate with them.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Everyone is making good points because the roster is so flexible. It's almost like each answer is correct.

I think the assembly of players and talent is going to allow a good coach to really shine. I'm not even trying to forecast the lines, because I don't have nearly enough information. I haven't even been able to see any preseason games, let alone know what guys look like in practice or their ability to do the things they're asked to do.

But if Bannister is truly an NHL caliber coach, we'll be able to see it in how he takes this collection of players, crafts a line-up, and gets them ready to compete. There is a lot more to work with here than there was last season, and he has a regular launching pad of camp that he never got last year.

I'm ambivalent about whether he is a coach for the Blues for long, but he can certainly force his way into the longer term plans with a good result.

 

[LGB]

I agree but the only way I do that right now is if Buchnevich is on Thomas line. I don't want him spending the year with a rookie and Schenn on his #1 line for example.

I think some combination of Neighbours, Holloway, Saad, Bolduc, Schenn could work just fine

 

[Blanick]

Sending down Dvorsky was absolutely the right decision. The talent is there, no doubt, but you can watch him overthink on the ice when he has the puck. He was playing afraid to make a mistake, let him get comfortable and maybe he gets the call later in the year with injuries.

Like many others have said I am not comfortable with Buchnevich as our 2C at all. Last year he looked out of place when he was at center. That being said Schenn can't play center in our top6 again this year. Obviously the spot is Dvorsky's in the near future but we need a stop gap there if Buch continues to struggle there. Is that Holloway? Texier? A trade? I don't know but to me that is the biggest question to start the year.

 

[LGB]

Saad - Buch - Kyrou was a pretty good line at the end of last year

 

[stl76]

This team does not have enough elite talent to rely on the top 6 for offense. This team will need 3 scoring lines. Also, Faksa can provide tough defensive minutes on the fourth line, like the Steen-Sundqvist-Barbashev line did in 2019.

Call it whatever line you want, Faksa is very likely going to be playing 15-16 minutes of extremely difficult defensive minutes per game for the Blues this year. It's going to open up match ups for the entire top 6, but particularly Robert Thomas. I don't care about arguing the semantics of what constitutes an "elite" talent, but Robert Thomas is going to have a career year thanks in large part to Radek Faksa.

 

[simon IC]

Neighbours-Thomas-Bolduc
Saad-Buchnevich-Kyrou
Schenn-Holloway-Texier
Joseph-Faksa-Toropchenko

Maybe swap Kyrou and Bolduc?
I'm worried about that 3rd line, too. It could be a train wreck defensively.
Best I can do without a true #2 Center.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The lines to start the season won't be what we have in the nearish future. Just going back to 18/19 when we had some pretty significant changes, the lines to open the season were bizarre when you know what the actual combos were in the end.

Maroon-ROR-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Steen-Bozak-Perron
Barbashev-Thomas-Blais

You can see what the thought process was with some of the decisions, but the bigger point is, you don't really know who has the best in-game chemistry until you get through a decent amount of regular season games. Holloway-Faksa-Joseph might have incredible chemistry, but Holloway could also end up having perfect chemistry with Thomas or maybe he fits with Buchnevich and they short of share center responsibilities. This stuff will sort itself out, but with the amount of changes we have, it'll take some time for things to settle.

 

[BlueDream]

Maroon-ROR-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Steen-Bozak-Perron
Barbashev-Thomas-Blais

You can see what the thought process was with some of the decisions, but the bigger point is, you don't really know who has the best in-game chemistry until you get through a decent amount of regular season games. Holloway-Faksa-Joseph might have incredible chemistry, but Holloway could also end up having perfect chemistry with Thomas or maybe he fits with Buchnevich and they short of share center responsibilities. This stuff will sort itself out, but with the amount of changes we have, it'll take some time for things to settle.

Great post. I don’t understand the obsession some people have with the lines.

I know it’s a thing hockey fans just like to talk about in general, but I bet we will literally see tweaks to the lines by the 2nd period of the 1st game. It really does not matter that much, lots of guys are going to be moved around.

 

[Celtic Note]

The lines to start the season won't be what we have in the nearish future. Just going back to 18/19 when we had some pretty significant changes, the lines to open the season were bizarre when you know what the actual combos were in the end.

Maroon-ROR-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Schenn-Kyrou
Steen-Bozak-Perron
Barbashev-Thomas-Blais

You can see what the thought process was with some of the decisions, but the bigger point is, you don't really know who has the best in-game chemistry until you get through a decent amount of regular season games. Holloway-Faksa-Joseph might have incredible chemistry, but Holloway could also end up having perfect chemistry with Thomas or maybe he fits with Buchnevich and they short of share center responsibilities. This stuff will sort itself out, but with the amount of changes we have, it'll take some time for things to settle.

You start by designing the lines you hope/think will work and tweak them until you find something that does work. And, what may work for a period of time may need to be tweaked if it grows stale.

 

[joe galiba]

Zach Dean is the man left without a chair. He must assert.

I read that in Johnny Cochran's voice

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Sending down Dvorsky was absolutely the right decision. The talent is there, no doubt, but you can watch him overthink on the ice when he has the puck. He was playing afraid to make a mistake, let him get comfortable and maybe he gets the call later in the year with injuries.

Like many others have said I am not comfortable with Buchnevich as our 2C at all. Last year he looked out of place when he was at center. That being said Schenn can't play center in our top6 again this year. Obviously the spot is Dvorsky's in the near future but we need a stop gap there if Buch continues to struggle there. Is that Holloway? Texier? A trade? I don't know but to me that is the biggest question to start the year.

It may be a little frustrating, but going through the season with a flawed roster isn’t the end of the world if it gives one of the younger guys a chance in that role. Or rather, I don’t want to acquire a vet and then watch them playing over Dvorsky or another young guy who could play center eventually (as soon as later this season). If a move is made (and I think Faksa is already the guy they may be looking at as the veteran acquisition, again…a flawed but reasonable solution) I want it to be in deference to maximizing youth development.

 

[PocketNines]

Call it whatever line you want, Faksa is very likely going to be playing 15-16 minutes of extremely difficult defensive minutes per game for the Blues this year. It's going to open up match ups for the entire top 6, but particularly Robert Thomas. I don't care about arguing the semantics of what constitutes an "elite" talent, but Robert Thomas is going to have a career year thanks in large part to Radek Faksa.

this is an interesting observation and one I'd like to see play out

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, from the start, I expect Faksa to play heavy and hard minutes. That's one of the reasons we want guys that can skate and have experience playing on big teams, guys like Holloway and Joseph. If you had to pick 3 guys for a shutdown type line, and it's not the Thomas or Buchnevich line, these would be the 3 guys that I'd pick first.

Maybe it allows Thomas to feast on offensive minutes or maybe it allows us to really shelter the Buchnevich line with as much offensive usage as possible knowing that he or Schenn aren't really ideal 2nd line centers. Faksa's points/60 last season were on par with his production earlier in his career when he had more 5v5 minutes. With a contract year, he has to be craving an opportunity like this.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I am curious what we do with Saad when he comes back. Is Bolduc truly making the team on the 2nd line or is he just holding Saad's spot. Does Saad play on the 3rd line? I do think it makes sense to have Schenn and Buchnevich together to make center duties easier on Buchnevich.

 

[PocketNines]

I am curious what we do with Saad when he comes back. Is Bolduc truly making the team on the 2nd line or is he just holding Saad's spot. Does Saad play on the 3rd line? I do think it makes sense to have Schenn and Buchnevich together to make center duties easier on Buchnevich.

it all depends on Bolduc. he has to show his true NHL identity - what he can be relied on to do. that is why I am uncomfortable placing him higher on my prospect chart. he has strong potential but it would be very reasonable for him to go either way in the NHL.

 

[Brian39]

Call it whatever line you want, Faksa is very likely going to be playing 15-16 minutes of extremely difficult defensive minutes per game for the Blues this year. It's going to open up match ups for the entire top 6, but particularly Robert Thomas. I don't care about arguing the semantics of what constitutes an "elite" talent, but Robert Thomas is going to have a career year thanks in large part to Radek Faksa.

I think most people really underestimate how much defensive responsibility Thomas had last year compared to other point-producing 1Cs.

Thomas was 1 of 17 centers who was on the ice for 60+ goals for at 5 on 5 last year. Thomas was the only one of them with an O-zone start rate below 50%. 11 of the other 16 guys were at 60% or higher and 14 of 16 were above 55%. If you expand that list to the 36 centers who were on the ice for 55+ goals for (which includes Kyrou, lol), Thomas is one of just two guys with an O-zone start rate under 50% at 5 on 5. 26 of the 36 were at 55% or higher.

I very much share your optimism that Faksa playing middle 6 minutes should free up Thomas to be deployed like a normal top line center instead of a shutdown top line center. We don't need to start him in the O-zone 60%-65% of the time like the guys who push for scoring titles, but approaching 55% would create a lot more opportunities for him.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think most people really underestimate how much defensive responsibility Thomas had last year compared to other point-producing 1Cs.

Thomas was 1 of 17 centers who was on the ice for 60+ goals at 5 on 5 last year. Thomas was the only one of them with an O-zone start rate below 50%. 11 of the other 16 guys were at 60% or higher and 14 of 16 were above 55%. If you expand that list to the 36 centers who were on the ice for 55+ goals for (which includes Kyrou, lol), Thomas is one of just two guys with an O-zone start rate under 50% at 5 on 5. 26 of the 36 were at 55% or higher.

I very much share your optimism that Faksa playing middle 6 minutes should free up Thomas to be deployed like a normal top line center instead of a shutdown top line center. We don't need to start him in the O-zone 60%-65% of the time like the guys who push for scoring titles, but approaching 55% would create a lot more opportunities for him.

Yep, like a post I had previous that I was trying to stay a bit pessimistic on that you said should be reason for more optimism. If the Faksa line can adequately perform a true shutdown role, it'll be a bigger boost than many realize. Because not only is it a massive upgrade on the 3rd line from last season, but it allows for much easier deployment of the Thomas line, which hopefully leads to greater offensive production.