Prospect Info: 2024 2nd Overall - Artyom Levshunov

[Toews2Bickell]

The data once told me Nick Bonino was a better player than Patrick Kane.

what data? I remember the idiotic narrative but what data was it? Demidov being a better pick than Levshunov as of today is a consensus view mostly at this point

 

[ClydeLee]

That clearly says draft year comparison... it literally is just pointing to they had equal production in their draft years.

Nothing about style or anything. Hudson his draft year was a little over ppg in ushl. Lev, was like 3 under ppg in college. It's saying that's comparable.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

why ignore the data?

Guessing you’re more worried about the fantasy of Demidov than the reality of Levshunov?

 

[TheFridge]

why ignore the data?

It's not useful data. It's comparing counting stats -- and only counting stats -- relative to age and league of players. Even the range of player that his "model" lists as full comps is incredibly varied. Andrew Cristall's comps range from Nikita Kucherov to Chris Gratton...

Yeah man, he'll either be a generational point-producer or a half-a-point-a-game-guy.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Guessing you’re more worried about the fantasy of Demidov than the reality of Levshunov?

huh? chicago fans are so defensive, whether its caleb or bedard/levshunov, any questioning is off the table

It's not useful data. It's comparing counting stats -- and only counting stats -- relative to age and league of players. Even the range of player that his "model" lists as full comps is incredibly varied. Andrew Cristall's comps range from Nikita Kucherov to Chris Gratton...

Yeah man, he'll either be a generational point-producer or a half-a-point-a-game-guy.

so go off feels and vibes? sure you need context with the data but all things point to demidov being a blue chip forward prospect and he was mocked as a top 2 pick for months leading up to draft

 

[TheFridge]

huh? chicago fans are so defensive, whether its caleb or bedard/levshunov, any questioning is off the table


so go off feels and vibes? sure you need context with the data but all things point to demidov being a blue chip forward prospect and he was mocked as a top 2 pick for months leading up to draft

What are you even trying to say my guy? You're complaining that people are getting defensive about Levshunov and then when someone points out how incredibly, asininely-flawed NHLe is you're like "wah man, you just care about the vibes". Sure thing.

Demidov and Levshunov are both excellent prospects.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

What are you even trying to say my guy? You're complaining that people are getting defensive about Levshunov and then when someone points out how incredibly, asininely-flawed NHLe is you're like "wah man, you just care about the vibes". Sure thing.

Demidov and Levshunov are both excellent prospects.

I'm saying its not just his model that considers Demidov the better prospect right now, if you run a poll on the mainboard that will likely be the result as well...and then who falls behind Celebrini and Demidov is up for debate

 

[ClydeLee]

It's not useful data. It's comparing counting stats -- and only counting stats -- relative to age and league of players. Even the range of player that his "model" lists as full comps is incredibly varied. Andrew Cristall's comps range from Nikita Kucherov to Chris Gratton...

Yeah man, he'll either be a generational point-producer or a half-a-point-a-game-guy.

That's literally the same as what a scout would say.

His ceiling is Kucherov but he might have a floor of a mid guy who scores here and there but his lack of 2way, drive, etc will limit him.

It's just more of that

 

[RememberTheRoar]

huh? chicago fans are so defensive, whether its caleb or bedard/levshunov, any questioning is off the table

look how defensive you’re being over the slightest bit of pushback on your “Demidov was clearly the best pick” take.

I’m just saying who cares at this point? Levshunov is the Blackhawks top prospect and him being “great” is still on the table even according to the analytics guy.

There’s no undoing that pick (and I don’t know if I’d even want to), how about we celebrate the kid who actually has a shot to be a Blackhawk great rather than fantasizing about the other guy?

 

[Toews2Bickell]

look how defensive you’re being over the slightest bit of pushback on your “Demidov was clearly the best pick” take.

I’m just saying who cares at this point? Levshunov is the Blackhawks top prospect and him being “great” is still on the table even according to the analytics guy.

There’s no undoing that pick (and I don’t know if I’d even want to), how about we celebrate the kid who actually has a shot to be a Blackhawk great rather than fantasizing about the other guy?

I responded to claims Bader is an idiot for simply saying that Demidov might've been the right choice based on his production this year, that can't be up for discussion? Then wtf are we doing on this board then if not to discuss what this team and the decisions/choices/results they get

 

[MTU34]

Bader’s models have nothing to do with analytics. It’s box score watching with a computer that does the work for you

 

[LavalPhantom]

Stopped reading after “Levshunov looks good, great even.”

Idc about the rest of what he said.

I care. I live in Montreal, despise the Habs, and all my friends talk me about is how amazing Demidov (who I desperately wanted the Hawks to draft) is and how dumb the Hawks were to pick Levshunov instead

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I responded to claims Bader is an idiot for simply saying that Demidov might've been the right choice based on his production this year, that can't be up for discussion? Then wtf are we doing on this board then if not to discuss what this team and the decisions/choices/results they get

I think you’re bitching at the wrong person here.

I never said he’s an idiot.

I said I don’t care about the rest because it’s irrelevant to what Levshunov can and will mean to the Blackhawks franchise. Exactly zero times did I say a damn thing about the guy being an idiot.

I care. I live in Montreal, despise the Habs, and all my friends talk me about is how amazing Demidov (who I desperately wanted the Hawks to draft) is and how dumb the Hawks were to pick Levshunov instead

Oh okay. Cool.

I’m sorry you live there. But Demidov being good doesn’t mean Levshunov is going to be bad. They can, and very likely will, both be very good top four picks.

 

[GIADF]

I thought Bader was universally mocked.


Why would anyone care what he has to say now?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I thought Bader was universally mocked.


Why would anyone care what he has to say now?

I don’t know, but Scott Wheeler also still believes that Levshunov can be great.

He already possessed all of the tools he needed to become a top-pairing D, and he just keeps getting better and better. The decision-making is a little raw, but he’s very much still learning it in real time, and the raw tools are also incredibly appealing considering his relative inexperience all things considered.

With continued fine-tuning, I believe there’s legitimate first-pairing upside there. I was very high on him coming into his draft year and he still exceeded my expectations with his ability to impact play all over the ice and jump in and out of plays. I expect him to do that in the NHL in a big way in time as well. He’s capable of becoming a force.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

I care. I live in Montreal, despise the Habs, and all my friends talk me about is how amazing Demidov (who I desperately wanted the Hawks to draft) is and how dumb the Hawks were to pick Levshunov instead

They probably thought they won the Dach trade as well. Habs fans just aren’t very bright.

They traded for at least three mediocre players in Dach, Newhook and Laine, and it’s led them to mediocrity. No sense worrying about them being competitive for the time being.

 

[statswatcher]

I thought Bader was universally mocked.


Why would anyone care what he has to say now?

it is looking likely that demidov is a massive impact player for montreal, but it will likely be years before the levshunov pick can even be properly appraised as successful even on its own terms. i expect people to be agonizing over this pick basically for the rest of time unless and until levshunov wins a norris or the hawks win a cup in the next decade.

 

[TheFridge]

I'm saying its not just his model that considers Demidov the better prospect right now, if you run a poll on the mainboard that will likely be the result as well...and then who falls behind Celebrini and Demidov is up for debate

Why would anyone care what a bunch of people who don't watch either player thinks?

I responded to claims Bader is an idiot for simply saying that Demidov might've been the right choice based on his production this year, that can't be up for discussion? Then wtf are we doing on this board then if not to discuss what this team and the decisions/choices/results they get

Bader is an idiot because he puts a lot of stock into NHLe. Anyone can have an opinion on who they think the Hawks should have picked. You're not winning an argument because of NHLe.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Why would anyone care what a bunch of people who don't watch either player thinks?

this board is one big echo chamber, whether its questioning bedard's offensive production or this pick, if you discuss/have non-consensus (on this board) views you're mocked for it...but if you step outside this board and read other opinions, you'll see its talked about elsewhere and they're called idiots for it as well...its like okay this team has been in the basement for damn near a decade now, maybe this fanbase is delusional about some things if we're just a last place team that's always making the right decisions on everything and always heading in the right direction

 

[TheFridge]

this board is one big echo chamber, whether its questioning bedard's offensive production or this pick, if you discuss/have non-consensus (on this board) views you're mocked for it...but if you step outside this board and read other opinions, you'll see its talked about elsewhere and they're called idiots for it as well...its like okay this team has been in the basement for damn near a decade now, maybe this fanbase is delusional about some things if we're just a last place team that's always making the right decisions on everything and always heading in the right direction

Actually the team's been in the basement for about 3 years and before that was in the murky middle. They were quite literally a .500 team prior to Davidson taking over in the preceding 4-5 seasons. Not good enough to make the playoffs, still holding onto hope of turning things around within Toews/Kane's contracts. Making actual bad moves, seemingly for the sake of making moves (Panarin, Hjalmarsson, Jones, etc).

Then what happened? McD left, Bowman was forced to resign and the Hawks actually committed to a plan. Maybe the plan won't work. But at least it's an actual plan. Rebuild through the draft. Bowman's plan was to throw shit at Toews and Kane and call it a playoff team. Did you prefer that?

You talk about criticizing and being mocked and it's like, sir, do you even understand what the plan is? You're conflating the last 10 years together to, it seems, help your argument that maybe they're not making the right calls and you expect not to be mocked/called out for that? Come on now.

 

[LavalPhantom]

Oh okay. Cool.

I’m sorry you live there. But Demidov being good doesn’t mean Levshunov is going to be bad. They can, and very likely will, both be very good top four picks.

Yeah I understand that it’s a me problem. I have faith in Levshunov and you won’t catch me doing a Musto by rooting against him because I preferred the other guy.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Actually the team's been in the basement for about 3 years and before that was in the murky middle. They were quite literally a .500 team prior to Davidson taking over in the preceding 4-5 seasons. Not good enough to make the playoffs, still holding onto hope of turning things around within Toews/Kane's contracts. Making actual bad moves, seemingly for the sake of making moves (Panarin, Hjalmarsson, Jones, etc).

Then what happened? McD left, Bowman was forced to resign and the Hawks actually committed to a plan. Maybe the plan won't work. But at least it's an actual plan. Rebuild through the draft. Bowman's plan was to throw shit at Toews and Kane and call it a playoff team. Did you prefer that?

You talk about criticizing and being mocked and it's like, sir, do you even understand what the plan is? You're conflating the last 10 years together to, it seems, help your argument that maybe they're not making the right calls and you expect not to be mocked/called out for that? Come on now.

You know what I'm saying, if you bring up a non-consensus view/argument on this board you're mocked and ridiculed for it, it happens constantly...lets just start running posts by people before we make them to make sure it has the approval of the superior authorities on hawks hockey...anyway total waste of time to discuss this anymore, we'll know the answer on this pick in time

 

[Crow]

That clearly says draft year comparison... it literally is just pointing to they had equal production in their draft years.

Nothing about style or anything. Hudson his draft year was a little over ppg in ushl. Lev, was like 3 under ppg in college. It's saying that's comparable.

Is defense even a consideration in his model? That’s the stupid part to me. Not that their production has been comparable.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Is defense even a consideration in his model? That’s the stupid part to me. Not that their production has been comparable.

he has to use data that is available historically so that is probably quite a limiting factor on what inputs he can have which might be why its a points driven model, its not perfect but it might be directionally correct to at least be part of an analysis on a player

 

[Dead Meat]

I'm saying its not just his model that considers Demidov the better prospect right now, if you run a poll on the mainboard that will likely be the result as well...and then who falls behind Celebrini and Demidov is up for debate

Is this keeping you up at night or something? Opinions on this comparison are irrelevant until they make it into the NHL.