Speculation: 2024/25 Trade Rumours, Speculation etc Thread

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Hopefully he doesn't put up more than 12 points anywhere else, including some shitty Finish men's league

I don't want to hear the "we gave him away for free" crowd start up about him

It’s the Jets Brass fault.

They never gave him a chance!!!!

He’s in the same boat as Spencer Machecek!!!!!

 

[WolfHouse]

It depends on whether or not Risto is for real or just some kind of mirage. How often do players finally 'get it' at 29 YO? Is he responding to Torts?

That sG chart shows that he bottomed out in 2022 and has been improving steadilly ever since. That would support it being real. That would open up a number of possible pairings.

They turned risto into a shut down guy instead of a tyler myers... hes a product of the system but its working

Maybe you trade chib for him...

 

[TS Quint]

I honestly don't know what you're talking about or how you read my post and got "hardened Ville fan". I'm happy he's getting an opportunity, and hope it continues to the point where we can all accurately judge this player, for Ville's sake as well as the sake of the team who spent valuable draft capital to get him on the team. What are the "hand outs" people want for Heinola exactly? To have our first round draft pick be given more than 10 games in the league he was drafted for?

The hand outs are instead of earning a spot they want him to be handed 10 games because of his draft position or because it's not fair, he had to play with Miller or it's not fair he had to play with Stanley or for any of the excuses he gets. It rare a poster wants those 10-20 games of sink or swim because he earned it.

He's getting his opportunities, he will get more as he earns more. But you don't deserve to be handed 20 games because of draft position. That's silly.

 

[Gm0ney]

It’s the Jets Brass fault.

They never gave him a chance!!!!

He’s in the same boat as Spencer Machecek!!!!!

Good thing there aren't any more recent examples...

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Yes, the coaches are more able and more informed to make evaluations. No one denies that. But it sometimes happens that people can be too close to see as clearly as someone else who is observing from a distance. There is group think here and also in management, just for one thing. Various biases enter into the picture.

Usually the pros will make better choices than the fans will but we have all seen clear-cut exceptions to that rule.

This is a board where we fans can express and discuss those ideas and opinions of ours that may differ with those of management. If all we do is endorse all of the pro actions what is left to talk about? Seriously, what?

Mortimer…..

I for one appreciate your keen insight on what goes down with the team and their antics as you observe discreetly and covertly from a far. You are a true asset to have contributing to these internet boards.

Happy Holidays /Happy New Years / Happy festival du Voyageur…….

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They turned risto into a shut down guy instead of a tyler myers... hes a product of the system but its working

Maybe you trade chib for him...

Chib is too much. A couple of mid rd picks maybe.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The hand outs are instead of earning a spot they want him to be handed 10 games because of his draft position or because it's not fair, he had to play with Miller or it's not fair he had to play with Stanley or for any of the excuses he gets. It rare a poster wants those 10-20 games of sink or swim because he earned it.

He's getting his opportunities, he will get more as he earns more. But you don't deserve to be handed 20 games because of draft position. That's silly.

No! It is not because of his draft position. It is not about being fair. It is because that is what you earn by being a standout in the AHL.

And it is not even for his benefit. It is for the benefit of the Jets. They have invested a lot into him. They need to get the reward for that investment.

 

[Jet]

Yes, the coaches are more able and more informed to make evaluations. No one denies that. But it sometimes happens that people can be too close to see as clearly as someone else who is observing from a distance. There is group think here and also in management, just for one thing. Various biases enter into the picture.

Usually the pros will make better choices than the fans will but we have all seen clear-cut exceptions to that rule.

This is a board where we fans can express and discuss those ideas and opinions of ours that may differ with those of management. If all we do is endorse all of the pro actions what is left to talk about? Seriously, what?

I don't disagree with you that the pros aren't always right, it's more about the assertion that fans evaluations from a distance are often right.

I'm not saying we shouldn't disagree or have our own opinions and debate. That's why we're here.

 

[TS Quint]

Nobody is asking for Ville to have anything handed to him. No one is saying he is the centre of the Universe. All people are asking for is that he be given a shot under reasonably favourable conditions to see if he can earn it. Find out if he is a square peg or a round one. If he gets that and doesn't succeed then let him go.

I dont know what you mean when you say no one is asking for anything to be handed to him but then you want favorable circumstances for him. Again, im not seeing you advocate for him to get more because he earned it.

Posters are constantly wanting 10, 20 games so they can personally judge him, There are constant posts about giving him better partners and more time because he hasnt been good not because he has been good. That's ass backwards. He finds his place on the team as he earns it.

You dont give him Demelo and disrupt Morrisey. You dont hand him 20 minutes on the 2 pair when he hasnt proved he can do well on the 3rd pair with 15 minutes. You don't disrrupt the whole defense on a 1st place team just to appease Ville. The team doesn't revolve around him. He is getting his shot on a sheltered 3rd pair, people need to stop pretending this isnt happening. He proves he can handle the 15 minutes on the sheltered 3rd pair and then we talk about the next step. He's done alright the last couple games. He will get more chances to prove he can continue to improve. Let's see if he can walk before demanding he run.

 

[TS Quint]

No! It is not because of his draft position. It is not about being fair. It is because that is what you earn by being a standout in the AHL.

And it is not even for his benefit. It is for the benefit of the Jets. They have invested a lot into him. They need to get the reward for that investment.

You don't speak for that poster. Their point was the Jets spent 1st round draft capital on him so we should hand him a spot, so I used that as one of the many examples of him some how deserving something he hasn't earned.

Lots of players stand out in the AHL. Sure, it's a step but it's not the NHL which is clear by his play in the NHL. Same thing went for lots of this boards favorite underdogs, your favorites like Petan and Niku come to mind.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't disagree with you that the pros aren't always right, it's more about the assertion that fans evaluations from a distance are often right.

I'm not saying we shouldn't disagree or have our own opinions and debate. That's why we're here.

I guess it depends what you mean by often.

The pros are obviously right more often than the fans are. Well, at least most pros are cough*Chiarelli*cough.

But each individual instance the fan(s) are going to believe they are right (its my turn!) until they are shown to be wrong. Sometimes, that takes years. I'm just about ready to accept that Petan's problem was Petan. Almost.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You don't speak for that poster. Their point was the Jets spent 1st round draft capital on him so we should hand him a spot, so I used that as one of the many examples of him some how deserving something he hasn't earned.

Lots of players stand out in the AHL. Sure, it's a step but it's not the NHL which is clear by his play in the NHL. Same thing went for lots of this boards favorite underdogs, your favorites like Petan and Niku come to mind.

Who said we should hand him a spot? I've been following this thread pretty closely but haven't seen that.

It isn't just in sports. Everywhere in life people need a chance to succeed. That does not mean being thrown in the deep end and told to sink or swim.

 

[TS Quint]

I agree with a lot of what your saying but I also think this org can be to stubborn with its top prospects and hold them too long.

Look at Vesalainen, instead of dealing him while he still had some value, they elected to try to deconstruct and reconstruct his entire game to try to get him to play a depth role. Why bother, you can find third and fourth line wingers fairly easily. By doing so they lost an asset for nothing.

With Ville once it became apparent that the org was set on a one, two and three of JoMo, Snerg, and Tree they should have been looking for a taker for Ville. Instead we've kept him into his waiver years where his value is likely next to nothing and are trying to force him into playing his offside here. Once again trying to force a high pick into a role Instead of trading them while they have value and we know through some reports that teams once highly valued him.

I hope we don't see similar with Brad and Chibrikov over the next few years. Either create a pathway or move them while their value is high.

When was Vesalainen good?

 

[Flair Hay]

No! It is not because of his draft position. It is not about being fair. It is because that is what you earn by being a standout in the AHL.

And it is not even for his benefit. It is for the benefit of the Jets. They have invested a lot into him. They need to get the reward for that investment.

Correct again. Sorry but I'm not buying that a little big picture thinking isn't possible at the pro level.

The Stanley staying in the lineup thing and the Ville not getting a fair shake thing are so strongly linked that it doubles the frustration level.

People will understand if Ville sucks at the NHL level and we move on after half a year. He got his shot.

But evaluating him on his off side, with our worst defenseman (obv Jets don't see it this way) and bringing him in and out of the lineup to accommodate playing our worst defenseman drives people crazy.

Especially after we lost two of our own draft picks to the same root cause (finding a spot for our worst defenseman)

Like no shit people are bitching about it. No one actually thinks bringing a guy in and out of the lineup, and switching him from side to side is a good way to evaluate him.

I've heard emphasis on proper development of Heinola from people as a reason for letting Dillon go.

Our coach has done a great job this year but I honestly feel like his evaluation of Stanley specifically is terrible. Don't know how else to say it.

 

[KingBogo]

He wanted an offer from the Jets months before that. We don't know what it would have taken at that time.

Dillon for 2 years. The way it looks right now, even 3x4 would have been OK. Go ahead and move Heinola, who cares. If we have the size and physicality in Dillon it would have made more sense at that point to move Stanley. Dillon plays a better physical game, is a better fighter and better defensively than Stanley.

Except contracts aren’t offered they are negotiated. That’s why players have agents. Chevy would have known what type of money and term Dillon was looking for through discussions with the agent. It appears that Dillon’s ask was beyond what Chevy was looking to pay especially with Heinola coming off his ELC. So no official contract offer was given.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I dont know what you mean when you say no one is asking for anything to be handed to him but then you want favorable circumstances for him. Again, im not seeing you advocate for him to get more because he earned it.

Posters are constantly wanting 10, 20 games so they can personally judge him, There are constant posts about giving him better partners and more time because he hasnt been good not because he has been good. That's ass backwards. He finds his place on the team as he earns it.

You dont give him Demelo and disrupt Morrisey. You dont hand him 20 minutes on the 2 pair when he hasnt proved he can do well on the 3rd pair with 15 minutes. You don't disrrupt the whole defense on a 1st place team just to appease Ville. The team doesn't revolve around him. He is getting his shot on a sheltered 3rd pair, people need to stop pretending this isnt happening. He proves he can handle the 15 minutes on the sheltered 3rd pair and then we talk about the next step. He's done alright the last couple games. He will get more chances to prove he can continue to improve. Let's see if he can walk before demanding he run.

Most players break in under favourable circumstances. How do you expect anyone to earn it if they are set up to fail?

Posters are asking for 10-20 games because it takes thet long. It doesn't take that long to evaluate a player. But it does take players that long to adapt to the NHL.

He doesn't need 'better partners'. I don't even know what you mean by that. Play him with Miller is playing him with the regular 3RD. He is not a better partner. He is the normal partner for the 3LD. But playing him on his off-side with an acknowledged (by many at least) defensively challenged partner is not giving him a normal chance.

DeMelo? 2nd pair? Where does that come from? No one, NO ONE is trying to appease Heinola or suggesting that the team revolves around him. That's ridiculous.

Yes, walk before he runs. That's what he is doing to EARN more. He is getting better each time out. If he wasn't it might be a different story.

But none of this is being asked for by fans because they want to appease, please or coddle Heinola. I don't know him and have nothing personal in this. I want him to succeed for the benefit of the Jets. I want a better 3LD and he is the only candidate at the moment.

 

[LowLefty]

Correct again. Sorry but I'm not buying that a little big picture thinking isn't possible at the pro level.

The Stanley staying in the lineup thing and the Ville not getting a fair shake thing are so strongly linked that it doubles the frustration level.

People will understand if Ville sucks at the NHL level and we move on after half a year. He got his shot.

But evaluating him on his off side, with our worst defenseman (obv Jets don't see it this way) and bringing him in and out of the lineup to accommodate playing our worst defenseman drives people crazy.

Especially after we lost two of our own draft picks to the same root cause (finding a spot for our worst defenseman)

Like no shit people are bitching about it. No one actually thinks bringing a guy in and out of the lineup, and switching him from side to side is a good way to evaluate him.

I've heard emphasis on proper development of Heinola from people as a reason for letting Dillon go.

Our coach has done a great job this year but I honestly feel like his evaluation of Stanley specifically is terrible. Don't know how else to say it.

My motto has always been:
If you don't know how else to say it, say it often.
Sorry, couldn't help myself . . . peace

 

[TS Quint]

Who said we should hand him a spot? I've been following this thread pretty closely but haven't seen that.

It isn't just in sports. Everywhere in life people need a chance to succeed. That does not mean being thrown in the deep end and told to sink or swim.

Then I'm not sure what you are wanting. He's getting into games and getting chances to show he belongs.What else are you expecting?

 

[Bender Duster]

Apparently the Jets are horny for bad defensemen!

Simply LeBrun trying to remain (become?) relevant. Can’t see the Jets targeting Risto.

 

[TS Quint]

Most players break in under favourable circumstances. How do you expect anyone to earn it if they are set up to fail?

Posters are asking for 10-20 games because it takes thet long. It doesn't take that long to evaluate a player. But it does take players that long to adapt to the NHL.

He doesn't need 'better partners'. I don't even know what you mean by that. Play him with Miller is playing him with the regular 3RD. He is not a better partner. He is the normal partner for the 3LD. But playing him on his off-side with an acknowledged (by many at least) defensively challenged partner is not giving him a normal chance.

DeMelo? 2nd pair? Where does that come from? No one, NO ONE is trying to appease Heinola or suggesting that the team revolves around him. That's ridiculous.

Yes, walk before he runs. That's what he is doing to EARN more. He is getting better each time out. If he wasn't it might be a different story.

But none of this is being asked for by fans because they want to appease, please or coddle Heinola. I don't know him and have nothing personal in this. I want him to succeed for the benefit of the Jets. I want a better 3LD and he is the only candidate at the moment.

He's getting everything you want then. Favorable deployment on a sheltered 3rd pair. What's the problem?

If he wasn't hurt he would have had far more than those 20 games. That's not the Jets fault.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Except contracts aren’t offered they are negotiated. That’s why players have agents. Chevy would have known what type of money and term Dillon was looking for through discussions with the agent. It appears that Dillon’s ask was beyond what Chevy was looking to pay especially with Heinola coming off his ELC. So no official contract offer was given.

The process typically starts with the team making an offer through the player's agent AFAIK. That happened for some other players during the season, but not Dillon. I took from his comments that there hadn't been any discussion between team and agent. Even if you are going to insist that it start the other way around, an opening of talks by the agent that indicated what the player wanted would lead to a counter-offer of some kind. Dillon didn't say that his ask was rejected. AFAIK there were no talks, until the 11th hour, after the season. By then it was too late. Pretty sure I remember talk of an offer being made before he signed with NJD. If Chevy really didn't want him, why would he have made that late offer?

I looked to me like Chevy was indecisive and dropped the ball.

 

[KingBogo]

S

The process typically starts with the team making an offer through the player's agent AFAIK. That happened for some other players during the season, but not Dillon. I took from his comments that there hadn't been any discussion between team and agent. Even if you are going to insist that it start the other way around, an opening of talks by the agent that indicated what the player wanted would lead to a counter-offer of some kind. Dillon didn't say that his ask was rejected. AFAIK there were no talks, until the 11th hour, after the season. By then it was too late. Pretty sure I remember talk of an offer being made before he signed with NJD. If Chevy really didn't want him, why would he have made that late offer?

I looked to me like Chevy was indecisive and dropped the ball.

So you take is the GM and the player's agent have no discussions about ballpark numbers and players just sit passively by waiting for an offer from the GM? Only then do GMs and agents start discussing salary and term?

 

[voyageur]

I guess it depends what you mean by often.

The pros are obviously right more often than the fans are. Well, at least most pros are cough*Chiarelli*cough.

But each individual instance the fan(s) are going to believe they are right (its my turn!) until they are shown to be wrong. Sometimes, that takes years. I'm just about ready to accept that Petan's problem was Petan. Almost.

I was a Nic Petan fan. He was fun to watch in the skills competitions.

But the Jets got too many good players in the time he was drafted. The skill guys like KC, Ehlers and Laine all had more skills.

The guys like Copp and Armia or Roslovic and Appleton that he had success with at different levels had more chops, and a more defensive role.

He wasn't as tenacious as Matty P.

He just never found a spot that fit here. And Maurice was going to push Thorburn, Peluso, Brendan Lemieux or Matt Hendricks through the lineup before giving a smaller skilled player a shot.

His dad's suicide came at a time when he was just making the big leagues and I can't even imagine what it did to his headspace.

Still one of my favourites that never made it as far as the potential he had, as a Team Canada gold medalist.

 

[Scheifele55]

 

[WolfHouse]

Chib is too much. A couple of mid rd picks maybe.

So two mid round picks instead of one