Speculation: 2024/25 Trade Rumours, Speculation etc Thread

[voyageur]

No sulking here, and the hyperbole is yours. You are entitled to your opinion about Ville, but not entitled to distort the opinions of those who feel he deserves more opportunity.

Re the second bolded, the one word answer from his (agent's) perspective is: Chisholm.

It's so difficult for fans on here to say hey maybe Big Stan could help the PK this game. He's played more there than Ville has, and we are missing two top PKers. But it's just Heinola contributed to wins so now must be cemented in his role, which was given to him in Stanley's absence. It's not Declan Chisholm if Ville Heinola has already played 10 games at this point which last year Chisholm had played 2, and didn't play for another month. The fact Heinola is signed to a 2 year one way contract, whereas Chisholm was on a 2 way one year deal last year should be some indication that both the coach and organization have different assessments of these 2 players.

Heinola hasn't proven he could be a top 4, but I was the poster who said at the start of the year that I thought his ceiling could be to play with Morrissey in some offensive zone situations. So far his ceiling is 3rd pairing, and not in a regular penalty killing role. If nothing else the Jets got Miller some rest to play Ville. Now with another injury he has an opportunity to play in some games, probably on the offside of Stanley.

 

[WolfHouse]

Heinola's agent should STFU, he tried that shit a couple of years ago when Ville was in the minors. And Heinola was clearly not physically ready to play on a contending team in the NHL.

If he keeps learning maybe he and his buddy Lambert, who also has 0s on the board, can make strides together next year.

I mean if Ville was as good as everyone thinks he is he would go on to that top pairing and replace De Melo seamlessly. He'd play shutdown minutes no problem.

Maybe he's a late bloomer like Forsling, so you hold on to the guy. But the entitlement idea, after a handful of games of positive results, well that's just silly. If Ville is of that character, he'd be better off gone. I don't think he is though. Signed a deal with the same value as Fleury (league minimum) but for one more year. Think he's probably happy to be in the NHL. The Finnish defenseman drafted ahead of him didn't cut it, went home. The player drafted behind him didn't cut it, is in the minors. The Swedish defenseman drafted after him didn't cut it, is in the minors. The Swedish defenseman drafted at #11 went home.

The best picks on defense in that draft were #6 Seider, #4 Byram, #18 Harley, and #8 Broberg, who took until the playoffs to have an impact.

You could argue though that if the Jets had taken Mc Michael or Pinto, they'd still have Chisholm

Forgot your meds today.

 

[Buffdog]

Who was the poster who 100% guaranteed Heinola wouldn't be back with the Jets this season?

 

[voyageur]

Forgot your meds today.

I just forgot to read Illegal Curve this morning. Hopefully the announcement that Heinola is playing ends all bitching, and fans can continue to decide which guys on the 3rd pairing are worse. Or maybe they have a good game. And these boards find nothing to complain about. Ok, well maybe less to complain about.

 

[Flair Hay]

He wanted an offer from the Jets months before that. We don't know what it would have taken at that time.

Dillon for 2 years. The way it looks right now, even 3x4 would have been OK. Go ahead and move Heinola, who cares. If we have the size and physicality in Dillon it would have made more sense at that point to move Stanley. Dillon plays a better physical game, is a better fighter and better defensively than Stanley

Yeah it's interesting seeing it talked about as if we had no shot at bringing back Dillon now that he is not here. The guy politely told everyone through the media he was waiting on a extension offer. Wasn't long after Nino extended.

We were actively chasing Monahan for bigger price and term in the summer.

Sorry if I'm not here for the "contract wouldn't have aged well" argument. I've heard (1) contract not aging well, (2) it would have blocked Ville, and (3) that it would force Ville to his off side (which would be unfair to his development). How would we say those excuses looking now a few weeks later? The Jets have done (2) and (3) for ...Stanley

This team would be in a better position this year and next year if we had him. Instead we are probably going to have to give up multiple picks to get a guy who may not even be as good as him as a rental.

 

[WolfHouse]

I just forgot to read Illegal Curve this morning. Hopefully the announcement that Heinola is playing ends all bitching, and fans can continue to decide which guys on the 3rd pairing are worse. Or maybe they have a good game. And these boards find nothing to complain about. Ok, well maybe less to complain about.

Its such a tired and old game to villainize all these 'bogeymen' fans and act like youre a more 'pure' fan

The other way of looking at this is that heinola.playing completely invalidates your last 24 hours of posting about how torontos forecheck isnt a big deal and that we need size against ottawa...

So maybe arniel sees something we dont haha

 

[surixon]

Heinola's agent should STFU, he tried that shit a couple of years ago when Ville was in the minors. And Heinola was clearly not physically ready to play on a contending team in the NHL.

If he keeps learning maybe he and his buddy Lambert, who also has 0s on the board, can make strides together next year.

I mean if Ville was as good as everyone thinks he is he would go on to that top pairing and replace De Melo seamlessly. He'd play shutdown minutes no problem.

Maybe he's a late bloomer like Forsling, so you hold on to the guy. But the entitlement idea, after a handful of games of positive results, well that's just silly. If Ville is of that character, he'd be better off gone. I don't think he is though. Signed a deal with the same value as Fleury (league minimum) but for one more year. Think he's probably happy to be in the NHL. The Finnish defenseman drafted ahead of him didn't cut it, went home. The player drafted behind him didn't cut it, is in the minors. The Swedish defenseman drafted after him didn't cut it, is in the minors. The Swedish defenseman drafted at #11 went home.

The best picks on defense in that draft were #6 Seider, #4 Byram, #18 Harley, and #8 Broberg, who took until the playoffs to have an impact.

You could argue though that if the Jets had taken Mc Michael or Pinto, they'd still have Chisholm

The same way Stanley's agent should have kept his mouth shut when he went public with a trade request after Snerg outplayed his client and stole his spot?

Listen I get the team player aspect but at the end of a day it's a career for these guys and players at the bottom of the roster have a very limited window to establish themselves and eek out a career. I don't begrudge any fringe player for wanting to chance to prove themselves and make some money. As we saw with Kovacevik and Chisholm there are opportunities elsewhere and both now will make more cash then they would have with the Jets.

Ville could still go either way here and the org is trying to see of he can convert to RD with tree, but imo he's being put in a difficult position to translate to the show.

 

[Flair Hay]

I just forgot to read Illegal Curve this morning. Hopefully the announcement that Heinola is playing ends all bitching, and fans can continue to decide which guys on the 3rd pairing are worse. Or maybe they have a good game. And these boards find nothing to complain about. Ok, well maybe less to complain about.

If you want to defer to the coach on all the decisions, thats fine. Don't expect other people - who pour a lot of time and effort into learning how to evaluate players from a distance, well - to do the same. Even from a distance compared to coaches, those fans that decide on which players are better, are often right.

 

[WolfHouse]

Yeah it's interesting seeing it talked about as if we had no shot at bringing back Dillon now that he is not here. The guy politely told everyone through the media he was waiting on a extension offer. Wasn't long after Nino extended.

We were actively chasing Monahan for bigger price and term in the summer.

Sorry if I'm not here for the "contract wouldn't have aged well" argument. I've heard (1) contract not aging well, (2) it would have blocked Ville, and (3) that it would force Ville to his off side (which would be unfair to his development). How would we say those excuses looking now a few weeks later? The Jets have done (2) and (3) for ...Stanley

This team would be in a better position this year and next year if we had him. Instead we are probably going to have to give up multiple picks to get a guy who may not even be as good as him as a rental.

I think we would have extended dillon if schmidt and wheeler werent on the books... 3 years at 4 million is not terrible

That being said, a healthy lineup with fleury-miller as the third pairing looks pretty solid

Id still look at a lhd trade with another year of term though and just move on from stan/heinola completely - one didnt seize chances and the other will never fully play with confidence - just my opinion

 

[voyageur]

The same way Stanley's agent should have kept his mouth shut when he went public with a trade request after Snerg outplayed his client and stole his spot?

Listen I get the team player aspect but at the end of a day it's a career for these guys and players at the bottom of the roster have a very limited window to establish themselves and eek out a career. I don't begrudge any fringe player for wanting to chance to prove themselves and make some money. As we saw with Kovacevik and Chisholm there are opportunities elsewhere and both now will make more cash then they would have with the Jets.

Ville could still go either way here and the org is trying to see of he can convert to RD with tree, but imo he's being put in a difficult position to translate to the show.

Neither Chisholm or Kovacevic got one way contracts. Kovacevic only got one year of one way money in his 3 year deal, and this is the one. He earned the other 2.

Arniel comes out and says he's a fan of Ville, and plays him. And it's still not enough. First sign of pressbox starts the he's not getting enough opportunity here. The Jets don't have anyone beyond Ville they can tap into in the minors on the left side, so it's not like Chisholm in any way. Ville was always seen as the better prospect. And this is his first full pro year interrupted by preseason injury.

I still think Stanley's trade request came from the outside because it was never confirmed. Stan kept his mouth shut, and took his lumps. Stayed a team player.

Ville did the same, but I think there was some traction to the rumours, because it did precipitate the organization calling him up, even if he wasn't ready yet.

 

[surixon]

Neither Chisholm or Kovacevic got one way contracts. Kovacevic only got one year of one way money in his 3 year deal, and this is the one. He earned the other 2.

Arniel comes out and says he's a fan of Ville, and plays him. And it's still not enough. First sign of pressbox starts the he's not getting enough opportunity here. The Jets don't have anyone beyond Ville they can tap into in the minors on the left side, so it's not like Chisholm in any way. Ville was always seen as the better prospect. And this is his first full pro year interrupted by preseason injury.

I still think Stanley's trade request came from the outside because it was never confirmed. Stan kept his mouth shut, and took his lumps. Stayed a team player.

Ville did the same, but I think there was some traction to the rumours, because it did precipitate the organization calling him up, even if he wasn't ready yet.

Stanley when asked about the request never denied it. I think it's clear he wanted a fresh start if they weren't going to play him. Him and the org must have come to an understanding as he retracted it. He's also largely been in the lineup when healthy so he's gotten what he's wanted.

With regards to cash, kovacevik has put himself in a spot to make a middle term multimillion deal. Chisholm if he keeps it up will do so as well. Neither of those would happen if both were riding thr pine here as they were.

 

[TS Quint]

If they don't communicate via the media, then what's the harm in telling the media that Stanley is playing because he's big?

Not sure I'm following that logic, no.

I have no idea what you are talking about either. Just a weird thing to expect.is this a specific expectation for Stanley or should he hit the podium and start listing the reasons why he has every player playing? Even if no one asked that question.

 

[Jet]

Why the angry response? Heinola's agent has said nothing publicly--it was I who said that I'd push for an opportunity elsewhere if I were his agent. And there is no question that that is the right thing for an agent to do, discretely and behind the scenes.

Re the second bolded, do you really believe that is what you are reading here? Because the actual debate is between those who are happy with the team's utilization of Ville and those who think he should get a run of 10-20 games to show whether he has the skills to be in the lineup as a bottom 4 D, regularly. If they don't offer him that, I hope he gets an opportunity elsewhere and, I am sure, so do Ville and his agent.

If I was Heinola I'd be looking to move on too. Just not a good fit here.

 

[Jet]

If you want to defer to the coach on all the decisions, thats fine. Don't expect other people - who pour a lot of time and effort into learning how to evaluate players from a distance, well - to do the same. Even from a distance compared to coaches, those fans that decide on which players are better, are often right.

Are they, though? It's clear that the Winnipeg fanbase has turned on Stan, and are parrotting the same things they read by whomever over and over. What seems to be missing is objective assessment (which includes positives about Stanley's play), and a complete lack of acknowledgement or understanding that a player can actually improve (unless that player is a fanboy fave like Ville).

The thing about evaluating players from a distance, and evaluating them as a fan, is that you (not you specifically) are far less equipped or informed to make a superior evaluation than those who are professionals in the space.

People can call that appeal to authority but it is simply a fact.

 

[surixon]

If I was Heinola I'd be looking to move on too. Just not a good fit here.

Agreed. There isn't a pp slot for him anytime in the near future unless they walk away from Pionk in the summer.

They also prefer PK players and grit on the bottom pairing.

Much like Declan he'd probably find a team that is ok with him as a bottom pairing guy.

 

[Jet]

Agreed. There isn't a pp slot for him anytime in the near future unless they walk away from Pionk in the summer.

They also prefer PK players and grit on the bottom pairing.

Much like Declan he'd probably find a team that is ok with him as a bottom pairing guy.

Yup, getting everyday play, some PP2 and hopefully growing into his game as he gets stronger and more confident.

 

[TS Quint]

Why the angry response? Heinola's agent has said nothing publicly--it was I who said that I'd push for an opportunity elsewhere if I were his agent. And there is no question that that is the right thing for an agent to do, discretely and behind the scenes.

Re the second bolded, do you really believe that is what you are reading here? Because the actual debate is between those who are happy with the team's utilization of Ville and those who think he should get a run of 10-20 games to show whether he has the skills to be in the lineup as a bottom 4 D, regularly. If they don't offer him that, I hope he gets an opportunity elsewhere and, I am sure, so do Ville and his agent.

Or Ville could earn it. This guy isn't the centre of the universe. He doesn't deserve anything handed to him. I agree with the other poster. If his agent starts coming with demands to the Jets he should be on the next bus out of town.

Again we have posters claiming the Jets are trying to put a square peg in a round hole and others who are demanding a square peg in a round hole. The just want it to be their square peg being jammed in.

 

[voyageur]

If I was Heinola I'd be looking to move on too. Just not a good fit here.

Why? The Jets defense isn't locked down in any way.

Top 4 have some existing chemistry and everything else is an untested experiment. Pionk isn't signed for next year.

He's getting an opportunity. Maybe he gets more special teams duties as the season wears on. More ice time.

If the onus is on a good skating defense this year, he's in the right system.

Starting on a new team doesn't ensure his success. You end up on one wrong team, and it can bring him back to the minors.

 

[Jet]

Why? The Jets defense isn't locked down in any way.

Top 4 have some existing chemistry and everything else is an untested experiment. Pionk isn't signed for next year.

He's getting an opportunity. Maybe he gets more special teams duties as the season wears on. More ice time.

If the onus is on a good skating defense this year, he's in the right system.

Starting on a new team doesn't ensure his success. You end up on one wrong team, and it can bring him back to the minors.

I just don't see a way forward with him, especially over the next couple of years. If he was 21 it would be another story but his window is starting to close.

Arniel has shown that he defers to size (which I don't totally disagree with considering some of the teams we play).

I still hope he continues to improve to the point where he's an everyday player but that likelyhood shrinks with every passing month.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I just don't get the sulking after sitting for one game. He's not going back to the minors like Chibrikov after a good run. He's waiting for the next opportunity. I don't see a reason to move Heinola. If he is a team player, and built some bonds with Perfetti and Lambert getting his chops in the A, experience playing with Samberg, Gustafsson, Chbrikov, and he's now practicing and learning tips from Josh Morrissey in his career, it's the process. He's not getting iced like Nic Petan was when he was in the same reserve spot. Or Chisholm. He's actually getting to play against NHL players on a winning team. Why does he or his agent or you want to go a different direction now? Because Stanley is playing tonight? It's almost hyperbole, which I guess is the reason for an overreaction on my part.

Who is sulking?

Why would his agent want a better opportunity for him? Because that is his job.

You are painting a rosy picture of his usage here and maybe it is accurate. A lot of posters here don't see it that way though. There is another very different version of that same usage. That in and out pattern isn't how we usually see prospects developed successfully.

 

[surixon]

Seems like LeBrun has linked us to Ristolinan. Why!!! He's a bad dmen signed to a bad contract for a number more years.

 

[Jack7222]

Or Ville could earn it. This guy isn't the centre of the universe. He doesn't deserve anything handed to him. I agree with the other poster. If his agent starts coming with demands to the Jets he should be on the next bus out of town.

I think if the Jets shipped out every prospect who didn't show something in their first 30 games they wouldn't have much left, certainly Scheif would've been shipped out.

Vesalainen got 53 games in one season, Stanley's received god knows how many. I think it's in the Jets best interest to put their high end draft picks in positions to succeed, not just say "well you have to earn it". How's he supposed to earn it if he's A. great in the AHL B. his NHL runs end at 10 games before getting sent back?

I'm not saying I think he's going to be a top end defender, but I think the rational position is that we don't really know, and that the Jets can afford and will benefit from finding out... and that 10 games doesn't really tell us anything either way.

Edit: all this has been said a million times anyway. Just hoping we see this guy get a bit of rope and find out what he is capable of, since he's one of our draft picks and all, and if he succeeds the team succeeds.

 

[Jet]

Seems like LeBrun has linked us to Ristolinan. Why!!! He's a bad dmen signed to a bad contract for a number more years.

Apparently the Jets are horny for bad defensemen!

 

[surixon]

Apparently the Jets are horny for bad defensemen!

Would be par for the course to go out and get an overpaid bottom. Pairing RD

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah it's interesting seeing it talked about as if we had no shot at bringing back Dillon now that he is not here. The guy politely told everyone through the media he was waiting on a extension offer. Wasn't long after Nino extended.

We were actively chasing Monahan for bigger price and term in the summer.

Sorry if I'm not here for the "contract wouldn't have aged well" argument. I've heard (1) contract not aging well, (2) it would have blocked Ville, and (3) that it would force Ville to his off side (which would be unfair to his development). How would we say those excuses looking now a few weeks later? The Jets have done (2) and (3) for ...Stanley

This team would be in a better position this year and next year if we had him. Instead we are probably going to have to give up multiple picks to get a guy who may not even be as good as him as a rental.

In fairness, I have to concede hindsight here. I was in favour of letting him walk at the time. But that was because I thought they were going to give Ville the shot. Instead it looks like they are using Stanley to save $$$ to fill Dillon's role. You get what you pay for.