Recalled/Assigned: 2024-25 Sharks/Barracuda/Thunder

[Hodge]

Right now, it should be the Sharks. There's not a good reason to not reward his performances thus far and, assuming he continues this through the preseason, they should slot him into one of the top three lines. If he fails to produce then you have options to fill his spot and can send him down. If he produces, you have a largely expendable winger to trade for value that wasn't Grier's guy.

What kind of participation trophy bullshit is the idea of "rewarding" professional athletes for scoring in an exhibition game with AHL rosters?

Warsofsky said it on day one of camp. The 20 most competitive guys will play. Clearly he doesn't consider Gushchin one of them.

When the Sharks cut Noah Gregor from camp in 2021 he went down and scored 12 points in 8 games for the Barracuda. That's what we need to see from Gushchin. Leave zero doubt that you're too good for the AHL. He hasn't done that yet.

 

[TheBeard]

...in the AHL. None of that means he would have outscored Holtz's 16 goals in the NHL even if he'd been up with the Sharks the entire season.

Who knows honestly? No one expected Zetterlund to have the season he did. I guarantee though Guch wouldn’t have been playing with guys like Mercer and Haula.

When the Sharks cut Noah Gregor from camp in 2021 he went down and scored 12 points in 8 games for the Barracuda. That's what we need to see from Gushchin. Leave zero doubt that you're too good for the AHL. He hasn't done that yet.

Guch started last year with 12 points in 7 games.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What kind of participation trophy bullshit is the idea of "rewarding" professional athletes for scoring in an exhibition game with AHL rosters?

Warsofsky said it on day one of camp. The 20 most competitive guys will play. Clearly he doesn't consider Gushchin one of them.

When the Sharks cut Noah Gregor from camp in 2021 he went down and scored 12 points in 8 games for the Barracuda. That's what we need to see from Gushchin. Leave zero doubt that you're too good for the AHL. He hasn't done that yet.

You sound hysterical with that idiotic question. Gushchin is not being rewarded for scoring in an exhibition. He would be rewarded for out-performing most everyone else in the same set of circumstances. Saying Warsofsky doesn't consider Gushchin as one of them is pretty cute for someone who didn't think Warsofsky was even a coaching candidate before he was hired. Now all of a sudden you can glean what the team thinks about anything after proving yourself wrong with this management. Gushchin has already proven that he's too good for the AHL and good enough for the NHL. It's a matter of whether they see it and provide the opportunity and if Gushchin runs with it. Gushchin has already done more in the AHL than Timo Meier had to when he played there. This is still just about getting over certain size biases when the little guy is outperforming veterans who were never good to begin with.

 

[Hodge]

Guch started last year with 12 points in 7 games.

Like I said, he probably should have been playing over Hoffman and Barabanov last year. But the roster is much stronger now so Gushchin will have to produce like that in the AHL again and hope for an injury in the top six.

You sound hysterical with that idiotic question. Gushchin is not being rewarded for scoring in an exhibition. He would be rewarded for out-performing most everyone else in the same set of circumstances. Saying Warsofsky doesn't consider Gushchin as one of them is pretty cute for someone who didn't think Warsofsky was even a coaching candidate before he was hired. Now all of a sudden you can glean what the team thinks about anything after proving yourself wrong with this management. Gushchin has already proven that he's too good for the AHL and good enough for the NHL. It's a matter of whether they see it and provide the opportunity and if Gushchin runs with it. Gushchin has already done more in the AHL than Timo Meier had to when he played there. This is still just about getting over certain size biases when the little guy is outperforming veterans who were never good to begin with.

Yeah Gushchin should totally be rewarded for outperforming the likes of Robert Hagg, Isaiah Saville, Tyson Hinds and Oscar Dansk. All legit NHL players who it's super impressive he got the better of.

What does my speculation on who the Sharks would hire as coach have to do with Warsofsky's demonstrated coaching expertise and the fact he is spending every day of training camp evaluating these players up close? He has way more information than us and if he thinks Goodrow and Kunin are better options on the third line over Gushchin I am inclined to defer to him.

Meier and Eklund put up Gushchin numbers in the AHL when they were 19 years old hence the quick call-up. Gushchin is 22.

 

[TheBeard]

Like I said, he probably should have been playing over Hoffman and Barabanov last year. But the roster is much stronger now so Gushchin will have to produce like that in the AHL again and hope for an injury in the top six.


Yeah Gushchin should totally be rewarded for outperforming the likes of Robert Hagg, Isaiah Saville, Tyson Hinds and Oscar Dansk. All legit NHL players who it's super impressive he got the better of.

What does my speculation on who the Sharks would hire as coach have to do with Warsofsky's demonstrated coaching expertise and the fact he is spending every day of training camp evaluating these players up close? He has way more information than us and if he thinks Goodrow and Kunin are better options on the third line over Gushchin I am inclined to defer to him.

Meier and Eklund put up Gushchin numbers in the AHL when they were 19 years old hence the quick call-up. Gushchin is 22.

I think it's really a question of what War wants or expects from his third line. If he wants a tough, gritty checking group that won't provide much by way of offense then for sure he's going to prefer Kunin or Barclay. If he's looking for more offensive upside (Which he should since there's no guarantee we'll get the production we're hoping from the top two lines) then Guch should be right there.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yeah Gushchin should totally be rewarded for outperforming the likes of Robert Hagg, Isaiah Saville, Tyson Hinds and Oscar Dansk. All legit NHL players who it's super impressive he got the better of.

What does my speculation on who the Sharks would hire as coach have to do with Warsofsky's demonstrated coaching expertise and the fact he is spending every day of training camp evaluating these players up close? He has way more information than us and if he thinks Goodrow and Kunin are better options on the third line over Gushchin I am inclined to defer to him.

Meier and Eklund put up Gushchin numbers in the AHL when they were 19 years old hence the quick call-up. Gushchin is 22.

He's not getting rewarded for that either. Can you ever respond to how it's actually framed rather than whatever make-believe goes on in your head? To answer your question, it's to demonstrate that you don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do about how the team's coaching and management actually evaluate these players. Gushchin put up similar numbers at 20 to what Meier did at 20. There's no need to reframe it into something else just to try and get a dishonest point across.

 

[Hodge]

He's not getting rewarded for that either. Can you ever respond to how it's actually framed rather than whatever make-believe goes on in your head? To answer your question, it's to demonstrate that you don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do about how the team's coaching and management actually evaluate these players. Gushchin put up similar numbers at 20 to what Meier did at 20. There's no need to reframe it into something else just to try and get a dishonest point across.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were making the even stupider point that Gushchin should be rewarded for outplaying the likes of Halttunen and Brandon Coe. It should be fairly obvious why outplaying guys who aren't going to make the Sharks doesn't entitle Gushchin to make the Sharks.

Meier D+2 in the AHL (age 19.9 at start of season): 0.70 ppg
Gushchin D+3 in the AHL (age 20.7 at start of season): 0.67 ppg

Timo outscored Gushchin in the AHL a full season of development and ~8 months in age earlier in addition to having a better junior career and being the kind of physical force Gushchin will never be. It's not a serious comparison.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1841226568708079856

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were making the even stupider point that Gushchin should be rewarded for outplaying the likes of Halttunen and Brandon Coe. It should be fairly obvious why outplaying guys who aren't going to make the Sharks doesn't entitle Gushchin to make the Sharks.

Meier D+2 in the AHL (age 19.9 at start of season): 0.70 ppg
Gushchin D+3 in the AHL (age 20.7 at start of season): 0.67 ppg

Timo outscored Gushchin in the AHL a full season of development and ~8 months in age earlier in addition to having a better junior career and being the kind of physical force Gushchin will never be. It's not a serious comparison.

Making more things up to continue being dishonest. Right on brand for you. Meier's AHL stint was 33 games compared to Gushchin's 67 games as a rookie pro. Doing .67 ppg over 67 games is still doing more at that level than what Meier did. He's scored 20 goals in each of his two AHL seasons thus far. If he hasn't proven it to you then neither did Meier. But you don't actually have a real standard that is applied evenly here. Gushchin is just an old regime smurf that should be ran out of town despite having a clear skill advantage over most guys this team is going to ice.

 

[Hodge]

Making more things up to continue being dishonest. Right on brand for you. Meier's AHL stint was 33 games compared to Gushchin's 67 games as a rookie pro. Doing .67 ppg over 67 games is still doing more at that level than what Meier did. He's scored 20 goals in each of his two AHL seasons thus far. If he hasn't proven it to you then neither did Meier. But you don't actually have a real standard that is applied evenly here. Gushchin is just an old regime smurf that should be ran out of town despite having a clear skill advantage over most guys this team is going to ice.

Lol wait you think Gushchin spending more time than Meier in the AHL is a point in his favor? Now I've heard it all. Ryan Carpenter has had a far more decorated AHL career than Connor McDavid. I guess that means he's a better player.

If it's just my personal anti-Gushchin bias how do you explain him clearly not being put on a NHL line at any point during training camp? It's not just me, the organization doesn't buy him as a NHL option either. It's on Gushchin to change that, not on the Sharks to just give him a lineup spot out of charity.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Lol wait you think Gushchin spending more time than Meier in the AHL is a point in his favor? Now I've heard it all. Ryan Carpenter has had a far more decorated AHL career than Connor McDavid. I guess that means he's a better player.

If it's just my personal anti-Gushchin bias how do you explain him clearly not being put on a NHL line at any point during training camp? It's not just me, the organization doesn't buy him as a NHL option either. It's on Gushchin to change that, not on the Sharks to just give him a lineup spot out of charity.

From a sample size perspective, it's quite obvious that it is. You looking to wiggle your way out of that very obvious and basic point is just you being unwilling to show a shred of objectivity. That's why you have to go out of your way to straw man arguments and misrepresent practically everything just to make more baseless points. You can't ask the question about NHL lines at any point during training camp (if one even agrees with the premise) while at the same time saying that he hasn't played any NHL competition like you already have. And no, at this point it is still just you that doesn't buy him as an NHL option. The organization has made no such call at this point in time and you thinking they have is a you problem reading into things that simply aren't there.

 

[Hodge]

From a sample size perspective, it's quite obvious that it is. You looking to wiggle your way out of that very obvious and basic point is just you being unwilling to show a shred of objectivity. That's why you have to go out of your way to straw man arguments and misrepresent practically everything just to make more baseless points. You can't ask the question about NHL lines at any point during training camp (if one even agrees with the premise) while at the same time saying that he hasn't played any NHL competition like you already have. And no, at this point it is still just you that doesn't buy him as an NHL option. The organization has made no such call at this point in time and you thinking they have is a you problem reading into things that simply aren't there.

What does Gushchin not being placed on lines with NHL locks during training camp drills and scrimmages have anything to do with the rosters Vegas and Anaheim iced against us?

Honestly I'm not even sure the org views Gushchin as their top forward call-up option. Collin Graf has been given better opportunities than Gushchin and is projected to play on a line with Smith and Zetterlund vs. Utah while Gushchin is scratched.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What does Gushchin not being placed on lines with NHL locks during training camp drills and scrimmages have anything to do with the rosters Vegas and Anaheim iced against us?

Honestly I'm not even sure the org views Gushchin as their top forward call-up option. Collin Graf has been given better opportunities than Gushchin and is projected to play on a line with Smith and Zetterlund vs. Utah while Gushchin is scratched.

It doesn't say anything because that premise isn't accurate. You thinking Graf is being given better opportunities isn't based on anything firm. Graf getting in tonight when he's only been in one of three preseason contests is just giving him another look that will then equal the looks that Gushchin has gotten thus far. It's hardly anything to read into to that degree but you have a habit of doing that.

 

[Hodge]

It doesn't say anything because that premise isn't accurate. You thinking Graf is being given better opportunities isn't based on anything firm. Graf getting in tonight when he's only been in one of three preseason contests is just giving him another look that will then equal the looks that Gushchin has gotten thus far. It's hardly anything to read into to that degree but you have a habit of doing that.

Except that one of them is getting looks next to Eklund, Granlund, Zetterlund and Will Smith while the other lined up next to Colin White, Cardwell, Bystedt and Robins...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Except that one of them is getting looks next to Eklund, Granlund, Zetterlund and Will Smith while the other lined up next to Colin White, Cardwell, Bystedt and Robins...

Graf has gotten one whole look with Eklund and Granlund well over a week ago playing secondary PP shifts with the likes of Thrun, Musty, Kostin, and Thompson. He was 8th among forwards in ice time and had a goose egg largely through his stat sheet with a -1. Gushchin has also been playing with the likes of Sturm and Kunin that are likely locks for this team too. Gushchin has shown to be an impact player with his limited opportunities with worse players. Graf did nothing with his one showing thus far but you believe he's the top choice right now.

 

[Hodge]

Graf has gotten one whole look with Eklund and Granlund well over a week ago playing secondary PP shifts with the likes of Thrun, Musty, Kostin, and Thompson. He was 8th among forwards in ice time and had a goose egg largely through his stat sheet with a -1. Gushchin has also been playing with the likes of Sturm and Kunin that are likely locks for this team too. Gushchin has shown to be an impact player with his limited opportunities with worse players. Graf did nothing with his one showing thus far but you believe he's the top choice right now.

So why didn't Gushchin get the spot next to Smith and Zetterlund tonight? Obviously we'll never know the real answer but it's just another indication that Gushchin's stock has really only risen this preseason in the minds of some fans rather than the organization itself. He needs to crush the AHL hard enough to earn a call-up then score enough in the NHL that they can't send him back down.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

So why didn't Gushchin get the spot next to Smith and Zetterlund tonight? Obviously we'll never know the real answer but it's just another indication that Gushchin's stock has really only risen this preseason in the minds of some fans rather than the organization itself. He needs to crush the AHL hard enough to earn a call-up then score enough in the NHL that they can't send him back down.

The team still has how many forwards in camp? Some of them have only seen one preseason game so they're giving them another look when Gushchin has already done a lot in two. It says nothing about the stock of any of who is sitting tonight.

 

[gaucholoco3]

From a sample size perspective, it's quite obvious that it is. You looking to wiggle your way out of that very obvious and basic point is just you being unwilling to show a shred of objectivity. That's why you have to go out of your way to straw man arguments and misrepresent practically everything just to make more baseless points. You can't ask the question about NHL lines at any point during training camp (if one even agrees with the premise) while at the same time saying that he hasn't played any NHL competition like you already have. And no, at this point it is still just you that doesn't buy him as an NHL option. The organization has made no such call at this point in time and you thinking they have is a you problem reading into things that simply aren't there.

Please don’t say Hodge is the only one that doesn’t buy a 5’9” wing who doesn’t have elite skating an NHL option. I am also one that agrees.

Hockey is still a contact sport and size matters. Unfortunately for Dallas Stank will learn that lesson this year. Stank would not be nearly as impressive if he didn’t have an S tier name to go with his small stature.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Please don’t say Hodge is the only one that doesn’t buy a 5’9” wing who doesn’t have elite skating an NHL option. I am also one that agrees.

Hockey is still a contact sport and size matters. Unfortunately for Dallas Stank will learn that lesson this year. Stank would not be nearly as impressive if he didn’t have an S tier name to go with his small stature.

My saying that him being the only one to not buy him as an NHL option is to flatly reject his belief that Gushchin's usage to this point is an indicator of how the team believes in him. Musty got time with legitimate NHL'ers and has already been cut because he performed poorly for the most part. Who anyone is playing with in preseason doesn't mean all that much as it relates to how they're being evaluated. If you want to jump the gun with Hodge based on some misguided notion of preseason player rankings based on who they're playing with, go right ahead. Your point about Stankoven is more cope than anything else. Stankoven won't be the first player his size to make a career for himself and he won't be the last.

 

[gaucholoco3]

My saying that him being the only one to not buy him as an NHL option is to flatly reject his belief that Gushchin's usage to this point is an indicator of how the team believes in him. Musty got time with legitimate NHL'ers and has already been cut because he performed poorly for the most part. Who anyone is playing with in preseason doesn't mean all that much as it relates to how they're being evaluated. If you want to jump the gun with Hodge based on some misguided notion of preseason player rankings based on who they're playing with, go right ahead. Your point about Stankoven is more cope than anything else. Stankoven won't be the first player his size to make a career for himself and he won't be the last.

Musty was given better opportunities than Gushchin because they actually believe in him as a future piece of the organization. Gushchin is nothing more than AHL depth who can help the Cuda make a run this season. It’s not just Gushchin. Bords is also not an NHL option and will be only AHL depth.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Musty was given better opportunities than Gushchin because they actually believe in him as a future piece of the organization. Gushchin is nothing more than AHL depth who can help the Cuda make a run this season. It’s not just Gushchin. Bords is also not an NHL option and will be only AHL depth.

If that premise were true in a meaningful sense, Musty wouldn’t have already been sent back. The point is who you play with in preseason isn’t an indication of NHL readiness nor a say on how a player is viewed by the coaches. Lots of our clear NHL players are playing with borderline players as well.

Point is that Gushchin hasn’t been cut with what you see as a worse opportunity and been more consistently effective thus far and Musty is already gone. There’s a spot that will be won by either Gushchin or Graf or Cagnoni or Thompson or Cardwell and it will likely come at the expense of Givani Smith’s roster spot because he’s likely to pass through waivers and they have vets that will fight in Goodrow and Kunin.

Gushchin has pretty clearly been the most impressive of that group. Cardwell is probably the most versatile of that group for a depth role. Graf is probably second in versatility but not creating as much as the other forwards. Cagnoni fits a specific role if they view it as vital. Thompson less so but the fragility of the right side of defense may require giving it to him.

There are other possibilities but not as likely as those to this point.

 

[gaucholoco3]

If that premise were true in a meaningful sense, Musty wouldn’t have already been sent back. The point is who you play with in preseason isn’t an indication of NHL readiness nor a say on how a player is viewed by the coaches. Lots of our clear NHL players are playing with borderline players as well.

Point is that Gushchin hasn’t been cut with what you see as a worse opportunity and been more consistently effective thus far and Musty is already gone. There’s a spot that will be won by either Gushchin or Graf or Cagnoni or Thompson or Cardwell and it will likely come at the expense of Givani Smith’s roster spot because he’s likely to pass through waivers and they have vets that will fight in Goodrow and Kunin.

Gushchin has pretty clearly been the most impressive of that group. Cardwell is probably the most versatile of that group for a depth role. Graf is probably second in versatility but not creating as much as the other forwards. Cagnoni fits a specific role if they view it as vital. Thompson less so but the fragility of the right side of defense may require giving it to him.

There are other possibilities but not as likely as those to this point.

I’m sorry to break the bad news to you but given the quotes that Wasofsky has made G Smith is 100% making the team. Assuming no forward injuries it is very easy to see the cuts that will be made.

Eklund, Celebrini, Toffoli, Granlund, W Smith, and Zetterlund will make up the top 6.
Goodrow, Wennberg, Kunin, Grundstrom, Sturm, Dellandrea, Kostin, and G Smith will be the bottom 6 and two scratches.

I would wager a lot of money that this is their opening night forward group.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I’m sorry to break the bad news to you but given the quotes that Wasofsky has made G Smith is 100% making the team. Assuming no forward injuries it is very easy to see the cuts that will be made.

Eklund, Celebrini, Toffoli, Granlund, W Smith, and Zetterlund will make up the top 6.
Goodrow, Wennberg, Kunin, Grundstrom, Sturm, Dellandrea, Kostin, and G Smith will be the bottom 6 and two scratches.

I would wager a lot of money that this is their opening night forward group.

What has Warsofsky said that has Givani Smith making the team?

 

[gaucholoco3]

What has Warsofsky said that has Givani Smith making the team?

His comments about standing up and G Smith taking a 4 minute double minor for roughing in the first game after Celebrini took a hit that wasn’t even that big.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

His comments about standing up and G Smith taking a 4 minute double minor for roughing in the first game after Celebrini took a hit that wasn’t even that big.

So why would that comment about Smith mean more than what coach has said about Gush playing the best he's ever seen? Neither comment explicitly speak to their odds of making the team.