GDT: 2024-25 season game 37 LA Kings vs New Jersey Devils @3:00pm 1/1/25

[King'sPawn]

Not what I said, I said it's a different argument, than was the value fair.

a bottom half 1st round pick, while still valuable, holds the same value as a top 2nd round pick, about the same percentage chance that that player hits.

Sorry, didn't mean to misconstrue. I'm not understanding. I promise I'm not trying to be dense or argumentative.

If you see a player you want, but the trading team wants a 1st round pick, where does your statement "don't let the difference of a round stop you" apply? It could be fair value, but if it's bad timing, doesn't the timing itself play into the value?

 

[Statto]

But do you let the difference of a 2nd to a 3rd, or a 1st to a 2nd, stop you from getting the player you want....(right or wrong player, different argument)

Keep in mind, draft picks are lottery picks, do you keep a scratcher ticket, from getting $1,000 ? Yea, the scratcher COULD be worth more.....but in reality, it's only a what, 30% chance to hit on something, maybe?

I never said I would not make the trade on that basis, just what I saw as value. There are a host of other variables that come into play.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Sorry, didn't mean to misconstrue. I'm not understanding. I promise I'm not trying to be dense or argumentative.

If you see a player you want, but the trading team wants a 1st round pick, where does your statement "don't let the difference of a round stop you" apply? It could be fair value, but if it's bad timing, doesn't the timing itself play into the value?

If I'm a GM, and I see a player I want becomes available, no a low 1st vs a high 2nd, isn't going to diminish his value. There is no GM in the league, that is going to pass on a 25-26 year old scoring wing for a low 1st and a mid prospect, which is what Faber was at the time.

The argument of timing is different than one of value in my mind. Though like I said, there's zero teams that are going to give up the chance to acquire a young scoring winger for that kind of cost.

I never said I would not make the trade on that basis, just what I saw as value. There are a host of other variables that come into play.

Exactly, which is the argument that @King'sPawn is making in terms of timing.

I don't think the timing was wrong either on this, by this point they've already committed to Danault, Arvidsson, etc. I believe, end of week/night my timing can be off

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

But there are so many moving parts here.

Were both trades fair value? I'd argue yes.
Were both trades bad timing for the Kings? Depending on your philosophy, yes.
Were the contracts for each guy fair? Probably, but I'd argue against the immediate signing of them before even taking the ice with the Kings.
Were the philosophies behind the trade for each guy probably sound? Yeah, but I'd argue the Kings were chasing the 'idea' of each player rather than what each guy actually is.

Honestly my bigger issues with both trades is the arrogance of the organization in the "i can fix him" for everyone. It's absurd, and it's the same issue we have with the development team. They seem to think they're smarter than anyone else and it continually bites them in the ass. I have no doubt they are looking at flawed players like Zibanejad, Miller/Pettersson, et. al. right this minute and trying to go for it a third time.

 

[bland]

I believe Fiala was available because the Wild had to dump salary. If so, paying full value was an overpayment.

They had to change their culture in order to progress (ya don't say), so when they made the costly buyouts they had to decide between re-signing a surplus scorer who could only play with kids and grinders or to make cuts in areas that hurt a hell of a lot more.

It wasn't a popular opinion at the time, but I knew Guerin was making all the right decisions and it has proven true - thus far. They dumped aging vets with a stagnant room, dumped a productive problem, and added Brock Faber and a first. A masterclass of general managing.

It astonishing how much better your decision making can be if you step back from the immediate and widen your look at longterm planning. Having a general manager incapable of that has cost the Kings a decade of possibility.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They had to change their culture in order to progress (ya don't say), so when they made the costly buyouts they had to decide between re-signing a surplus scorer who could only play with kids and grinders or to make cuts in areas that hurt a hell of a lot more.

It wasn't a popular opinion at the time, but I knew Guerin was making all the right decisions and it has proven true - thus far. They dumped aging vets with a stagnant room, dumped a productive problem, and added Brock Faber and a first. A masterclass of general managing.

It astonishing how much better your decision making can be if you step back from the immediate and widen your look at longterm planning. Having a general manager incapable of that has cost the Kings a decade of possibility.

Man Guerin bought out some Minnesota legends too

This org wouldn't even buy out Trevor Lewis

 

[The Butcher]

.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

They had to change their culture in order to progress (ya don't say), so when they made the costly buyouts they had to decide between re-signing a surplus scorer who could only play with kids and grinders or to make cuts in areas that hurt a hell of a lot more.

It wasn't a popular opinion at the time, but I knew Guerin was making all the right decisions and it has proven true - thus far. They dumped aging vets with a stagnant room, dumped a productive problem, and added Brock Faber and a first. A masterclass of general managing.

It astonishing how much better your decision making can be if you step back from the immediate and widen your look at longterm planning. Having a general manager incapable of that has cost the Kings a decade of possibility.

I thought MIN was just a 'black-hole' team that you guys keep comparing the Kings to?

 

[Omni Owl]

They had to change their culture in order to progress (ya don't say), so when they made the costly buyouts they had to decide between re-signing a surplus scorer who could only play with kids and grinders or to make cuts in areas that hurt a hell of a lot more.

It wasn't a popular opinion at the time, but I knew Guerin was making all the right decisions and it has proven true - thus far. They dumped aging vets with a stagnant room, dumped a productive problem, and added Brock Faber and a first. A masterclass of general managing.

It astonishing how much better your decision making can be if you step back from the immediate and widen your look at longterm planning. Having a general manager incapable of that has cost the Kings a decade of possibility.

Solid moves by Guerin. Fiala is not a player you want in your winning culture, total me first flashy vibes that can't play a lick of D. Him and PLD are literally the exact opposite types of players Lombardi would have brought in. I could've seen Lombardi making a play to get Ryan O'Reilly when he was a free agent instead of massively overpaying for PLD. Also wouldn't have seen DL trading an elite American D prospect in Faber...

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Solid moves by Guerin. Fiala is not a player you want in your winning culture, total me first flashy vibes that can't play a lick of D. Him and PLD are literally the exact opposite types of players Lombardi would have brought in. I could've seen Lombardi making a play to get Ryan O'Reilly when he was a free agent instead of massively overpaying for PLD. Also wouldn't have seen DL trading an elite American D prospect in Faber...

Wow, it’s almost as if you are saying Blake isn’t a clone of Dean Lombardi. Wild take, bro!