GDT: 2024-25 season game 31 LA Kings vs Pittsburgh Penguins @ 4:00pm 12/17/24

[bland]

My opinion, the Kings have enough skill to win, they just don't use it well. Like at all.
We used to joke around about the Kings Tax cutting every players production to 75% of what is was previously and it's not a joke anymore.
That's part of way the last few years I've been of the opinion this team is better with no structure playing pond hockey.

And what I am about to say is something I have argued about for 15 years with even my favorite posters:

Anze Kopitar IS the Kings offensive tax. When your top line center consistently has average to below average offensive production among first liners, your team is going to struggle offensively. The production from the rest of the lineup is relatively normal - using your best offensive player as your top defensive matchup center is going to limit your offensive opportunities.

Offense isn't just numbers, it's an influence on the overall game. You need players to push that pace, to force the opposition to adapt their game and create unfavorable matchups. When you go best on best it allows the opponent to use their best shutdown players on your secondary offensive options, which limits your own ability to generate chances and changes the game to a matter of nullified top units and reduces it down to a battle of depth.

The Kings won Cups based on their depth when it left due to age and increasingly limited cap space, it reduced their ability to compete. It was at that point when Kopitar should have adapted his game to meet the required offensive increase, but whether it was him or management, they never made those changes and the team languished for a decade. It made absolutely no difference that Anze was stellar defensively on an average team.

Now when your top guys are given the top matchups and are blown out of the water by the opponents best ala Edmonton, you have absolutely no chance at winning.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

And what I am about to say is something I have argued about for 15 years with even my favorite posters:

Anze Kopitar IS the Kings offensive tax. When your top line center is consistently has average to below average offensive production among first liners, your team is going to struggle offensively. The production from the rest of the lineup is relatively normal - using your best offensive player as your top defensive matchup center is going to limit your offensive opportunities.

Offense isn't just numbers, it's an influence on the overall game. You need players to push that pace, to force the opposition to adapt their game and create unfavorable matchups. When you go best on best it allows the opponent to use their best shutdown players on your secondary offensive options, which limits your own ability to generate chances and changes the game to a matter of nullified top units and reduces it down to a battle of depth.

The Kings won Cups based on their depth when it left due to age and increasingly limited cap space, it reduced their ability to compete. It was at that point when Kopitar should have adapted his game to meet the required offensive increase, but whether it was him or management, they never made those changes and the team anguished for a decade. It made absolutely no difference that Anze was stellar defensively on an average team.

Now when your top guys are given the top matchups and are blown out of the water by the opponents best ala Edmonton, you have absolutely no chance at winning.

Oh god *rips cigarette and shuts off computer*

 

[tigermask48]

And what I am about to say is something I have argued about for 15 years with even my favorite posters:

Anze Kopitar IS the Kings offensive tax. When your top line center is consistently has average to below average offensive production among first liners, your team is going to struggle offensively. The production from the rest of the lineup is relatively normal - using your best offensive player as your top defensive matchup center is going to limit your offensive opportunities.

Offense isn't just numbers, it's an influence on the overall game. You need players to push that pace, to force the opposition to adapt their game and create unfavorable matchups. When you go best on best it allows the opponent to use their best shutdown players on your secondary offensive options, which limits your own ability to generate chances and changes the game to a matter of nullified top units and reduces it down to a battle of depth.

The Kings won Cups based on their depth when it left due to age and increasingly limited cap space, it reduced their ability to compete. It was at that point when Kopitar should have adapted his game to meet the required offensive increase, but whether it was him or management, they never made those changes and the team anguished for a decade. It made absolutely no difference that Anze was stellar defensively on an average team.

Now when your top guys are given the top matchups and are blown out of the water by the opponents best ala Edmonton, you have absolutely no chance at winning.

Not sure I agree with ALL of this, but I can certainly see the thought by thought through line that leads to your conclusion.

 

[bland]

Oh god *rips cigarette and shuts off computer*

*checks username and post history, chuckles*

Not sure I agree with ALL of this, but I can certainly see the thought by thought through line that leads to your conclusion.

That's the cliff notes, it's a lot more complicated than what one can post in one dumps' worth of time...

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

Orrrrrrrrrrrrr Kopitar's lack of offense (and the Kings lack of offense) is more closely tied to the style of hockey the Kings have decided to play and the lack of complimentary star forwards in the Kings organization over the last 20 years.

McDavid has Draisaitl. Crosby had/has Malkin. Mackinnon has Rantanen. Ovechkin had Backstrom. Mathews has multiple stars around him. The Lightning have Kucherov and Point (plus other stars like Stamkos and now Guentzel). Etc etc.

How often has Kopitar been surrounded by elite offensive talent like other stars around the league have benefitted from??

For a long time it was Kopitar and Brown as a duo. Love Brown of course but obviously he's never been seen as an elite offensive talent. And yes, now he has Kempe and those two are looking like a pretty solid duo but that also kind of proves my point... Now Kopitar has a very skilled/dynamic linemate to work with and what do you know?? He's producing at over a point per game.

Now imagine if he had a star forward like Kempe to work with throughout his entire career.... Especially in his prime.

Also, just in general... It's way more on coaching & management to implement different systems / bring in elite offensive talent to help boost offensive production and support Kopitar as opposed to it being on Kopitar to change the way he plays the game to magically start producing at a higher rate. Come on now.

 

[tigermask48]

How often has Kopitar been surrounded by elite offensive talent like other stars around the league have benefitted from?

Are we really pretending Gaborik, Kovalchuk, Carter, Richards, and Fiala aren't world class elite level players on offense?

Heck Kopitar's two highest point total years in the NHL he had Ryan Smyth and a rookie Alex Iafallo as his linemates along with Brown.

 

[chris kontos]

Fiala couldnt hold those guys jock straps.
Seeing his name in the same sentence as gaborik, kovalchuk and carter is just wrong

 

[tigermask48]

You say that, and yet the one thing Fiala does is put up points. The other facets are certainly lacking, but the high level of skill on offense is there and undeniable.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Are we really pretending Gaborik, Kovalchuk, Carter, Richards, and Fiala aren't world class elite level players on offense?

Heck Kopitar's two highest point total years in the NHL he had Ryan Smyth and a rookie Alex Iafallo as his linemates along with Brown.

Kopitar most years outscored the rest of the team including his linemates by 20-30 points

most of these other Cs have another player either tied with them or literally outscoring them and by a significant amount.

Late career Gaborik is not even f***ing close to Draisaitl. Kovalchuk is not a decade of Marchand. And so on.

But I agree I'm not sure that's the kind of player that gets the most out of Kopitar anyway. There's a reason he had synergy with pluggers like Smyth, Brown, even Williams even though he's scrappy and talented.

I actually think Bland was pretty flattering to Kopi in this post, he put it more on usage/deployment than ability and I think we can agree with that. Kopitar had to do all 200 feet all the time often leading the NHL in icetime in doing so; Bergeron could focus on D when he has any nubmer of Marchand/Pastrnak/Krejci etc. to advance the offense for him.

 

[chris kontos]

Every gane i watch i see fiala do stupid shit at about a 3:1 ratio to good plays

 

[Sol]

Let's be honest, comparing Byfield to Kopitar is borderline cruel.

Kopitar is a truly special player. One of the greatest 2 way centers to ever pick up a hockey stick. The guy should easily be considered a top 50 NHL player of all time.

19 season straight (!!!!!!) this guy has consistently been a ~70+ point center who plays 20 mins a night in all situations while very rarely taking penalties and consistently shutting down opposing stars. He's led the Kings in scoring like 17 of his 19 seasons.

Who does that???? No seriously..... Who tf else in this league does that??? Virtually no one. He's a borderline generational talent.

Byfield has a ton of potential and he was a 2nd overall pick but even then..... Expecting Byfield to turn into a Kopitar replacement is a recipe for failure. You're basically saying "well, Byfield was a 2nd overall pick!!! He should be one of the best centers to ever play hockey!!!!" .... Obviously it doesn't work like that lol.

Edit: The fact that this is even a conversation makes me question whether or not Kopi is underappreciated even by Kings fans themselves. The Kings could've drafted the most hyped up prospect ever at 1st overall and we would STILL be lucky if that player ever turned out to be on the same level as #11.

The soft expectations of Byfield while also in the same breath saying “ton of potential” is the most backwards shit I’ve ever seen.

I am not expecting Byfield to put up Kopitar numbers, I am expecting him to be a difference maker at the minimum as a 2nd Overall player. People throw around bullshit terms such as “game breaking talent”. Well where the f*** is that talent and why does it RARELY show up. Granted Byfield does score a nice goal very rarely but he’s also getting outplayed by Laferriere, a player that most of the Byfield fanatics claimed to be ass. If some random college signing is out performing “ton of potential” Byfield then there’s something wrong with your math.


Byfield is a disappointing player who’s consistently disappointing. He’s only been good next to a generational center like Kopitar for one stint last season.


I expect a lot of Byfield for where he’s drafted but what irks me the most is posts like this alluding to some insane amount of talent that he has that we rarely ever see. Be real with who he is and let’s stop pretending that there’s this massive ceiling that he still hasn’t seemed to locate after all this time.

I’d love nothing more than to stop talking about him if a select few of posters who I generally respect stop with the hyperbole about who he is and can be.

 

[chris kontos]

Affirmative action hire

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

The soft expectations of Byfield while also in the same breath saying “ton of potential” is the most backwards shit I’ve ever seen.

I am not expecting Byfield to put up Kopitar numbers, I am expecting him to be a difference maker at the minimum as a 2nd Overall player. People throw around bullshit terms such as “game breaking talent”. Well where the f*** is that talent and why does it RARELY show up. Granted Byfield does score a nice goal very rarely but he’s also getting outplayed by Laferriere, a player that most of the Byfield fanatics claimed to be ass. If some random college signing is out performing “ton of potential” Byfield then there’s something wrong with your math.


Byfield is a disappointing player who’s consistently disappointing. He’s only been good next to a generational center like Kopitar for one stint last season.


I expect a lot of Byfield for where he’s drafted but what irks me the most is posts like this alluding to some insane amount of talent that he has that we rarely ever see. Be real with who he is and let’s stop pretending that there’s this massive ceiling that he still hasn’t seemed to locate after all this time.

I can think comparing Byfield to Kopitar is unfair (because Kopitar is a legend) while also still having high expectations for Byfield as the 2nd overall pick and also believing that he still has a ton of potential. I don't have 'soft' expectations for Byfield and even as a pretty big Byfield defender I can admit he's been disappointing and this clearly isn't where we expected him to be at this point in his career.

However, just because he's been disappointing and hasn't found consistency in his game doesn't mean he doesn't still have potential - which really seems the main thing we disagree on - Byfield 's potential (or lack thereof).

I don't really think there's anything I can say to make you change your mind about Byfield's potential... But I'll just say that for me it basically just comes down to:

• We've seen flashes of insanely high skill plays
• He has the tools and raw talent to be at least a VERY good NHL player
• If he's able to find some consistency & confidence, we could be looking at a hell of a player here
  • This is really the main point... I still have faith in Byfield because his two main issues right now are consistency and confidence. Two things that can, and often do, improve over time - ESPECIALLY when talking about players 23/24 years old and younger.

Also, you mention Laferriere - Not to be that guy.... But I was (seemingly) one of the few people that saw flashes and potential in Laferriere's game last year. I kept telling people not to write him off as 'nothing more than a 3rd liner' and people kept telling me how he was clearly never going to be anything. People would legitimately start to get mad when I would bring up Laferriere's potential.

Well... he got better. The flashes I saw in his game last year became a part of his game virtually every shift this year. And he's being rewarded on the ice as a result. The same could 100% happen to Byfield. The flashes we've seen in Byfield's game (granted, more rarely than we'd all like) could start to become a part of his game on a nightly basis as he builds that confidence/consistency. Wouldn't that be awesome?

Affirmative action hire

Unacceptable comment.

Be better.

 

[Bandit]

Affirmative action hire

Take that over an affirmative asshole hire.

See:

Robitaille, Luc
Blake, Rob
Emerson, Nelson
Bergevin, Marc