GDT: 2024-25 season game 2 LA Kings vs Boston Bruins @10:00am 10/12/24

[Shellz]

YAWN

 

[AbsentMojo]

YAWN

Haha.. ya its groundhogs day here at the forum

 

[AbsentMojo]

Whatever side of the development debate you are on... one fact is clear, none of the high picks have developed quickly or exceeded expectations... that is some combination of the pick and the development. Lets see if we can list young players or acquisitions that have thrived during the last 8 years: Kempe (after a long process), Moore, Durzi, Ando and?? There is a much longer list of players that have been huge disappointments.

 

[Peter James Bond III]

That picture of Laf

He's stealing my brain



Dude. this is incredible. Enjoy.

Thanks! Been a journey. Met the love of my life on a trip here last yr. Then between January - March sold my house, biz and car. Came back in April and married her. 6 months now and very happy. Got a long term visa and will soon apply for her us visa.
Like it here, but miss Colorado and grown sons. Came back to cal and Colorado 5 weeks 2 months ago to see fam and made it to TSC for a practice 6 hours before my flight back. 12 month lease beach condo with ocean view (about 1 mile from beach) for $900 usd a month. With rooftop pools . 2 gyms and resort like feel. Surin beach closest and often big waves and some surfers. A few have drowned there, since I’ve been here, sadly. People underestimate oceans power. Had an air repair guy work on our air con (you run it almost continually) and 2 weeks later we saw him on local news. Was at Surin beach, looking for his 15 yr old son. He drowned. We felt sick.

Good food, good people, but most days are 92 degrees and wishing for a 77 degree day often.
Driving on the right side of a car and left side of the road is a trip. Especially with hundreds of motor scooters zipping by on both sides at all times. Surprised I’ve only seen maybe 3 accidents. I think because it’s so intense, all people pay attention and no lapses make for that.

Goal to probably live 50/50 Thailand / USA. But that’s a ways out. Watching nhl tv helps a lot, honestly. My wife Chaipan really likes hockey now and she can’t wait to go to a game. lol

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Dealing with facts here GBH. If there are so many ways to develop prospects, why does the Kings way involve the most AHL usage for 1st round picks of any team in the last eight years?

Do you listen to any of the interviews with members of the front office? Plenty of them have admitted that they are a slow cook team that heavily uses their AHL affiliate. Yannetti, Emerson, Murray. Look at the quotes when Turcotte signed as an example. Most NHL teams would keep that player in the NCAA and hope to bring him up to the NHL at 20, the Kings went against conventional wisdom. But despite them telling you that, and the facts that back up the Kings heavy AHL usage, you somehow still fight it, why?

Since 2010, there have been 21 forwards (other than QB) taken with top 2 picks. 20 of those made the team out of camp, 19 stuck in the NHL the whole year. The one who didn't make his NHL team right away was Matty Beniers, who turned down Seattle's contract offers to return to college for his sophomore year.

So yes, it is fair to say the Kings development choices with the player are completely different than how other teams have chosen to develop similar players. If you want to say the Kings are right and everyone else is wrong, well you are entitled to your opinion, but you aren't entitled to the facts, which show that NHL teams overwhelmingly put Top 2 forward picks right into the NHL. Unless you think 90+% is not overwhelming.

The same is true of Clarke, you think most other teams would put a player like that, a top 7 pick coming off the season he had would have sent him to the minors?

You keep skipping over the fact that the only thing I've EVER said, is that it's prospect specific, it has always been that way, it will always be that way,

But let's address the drafts since 2010 and examine WHY those players have made the team out of camp, here's a hint (there's no f***ing pressure to win right away)

2010 - Edmonton - Hall, Boston Seguin - Edmonton bottom 10 team next year, no expectations, Boston, you have a point, that was the infamous TOR deal, but Seguin played right away, all 12 minutes average a game the entire year vs Hall's 18 minutes a game, (difference in team expectations)

2011 - Edmonton - RNH - Colorado - Landeskog - both out of the playoffs next year with no expectations of making them to begin with, RNH -17 min per game, Landeskog 18 min per game

2012 - Edmonton - Yakupov - Columbus - Murray (yes a D) again, both played right away, both teams ZERO expectations

2013 - COL MaKinnon, FLA - Barkov, see 2012, ZERO expectations

2014 - FLA -Ekblad - BUF Reinhart, ZERO expectations of winning

2015 - EDM - Mcdavid - BUF - Eichel - ZERO expecations of winning

2016 - TOR Matthews - WPG - Laine - TOR did have expectations, WPG did not (to be fair, TOR ALWAYS has expectations of winning

2017 - NJ Hischier - PHI - Patrick - ZERO expectations

2018 - BUF - Dahlin - CAR Svechkinkov - ZERO expectations

2019 - NJ Hughes - NYR - Kakko, no expectations

2020 - NYR - Laferrierre - LA - Byfield NYR no expectations, LA didn't have any expectations

2021 - BUF - Powers - SEA - Berniers, neither had expectations

2022 - MTF - Sflavsoky - NJ - Nemec MTL had no expectations, played him, NJ had expectations, sent him to the AHL

2023 - CHI Bedard - ANA - Carlsson - neither has expectations

2024 - SJ Celebrine - CHI Lyshunkov - neither has expectations, one in the NHL and not sure on Lyshunkov might be in the NHL but hasnt played as of yet,

So 14 years....28 picks.....ONE player has played that was drafted top 2, on a team that had expectations going into the next season after the draft....

Imagine that.

Again, there's a reason why they play them.....it's because there are ZERO expectations to win, LA started that with Byfield, then changed course and he was on track to make 2021 roster then broke his ankle.....

But you keep banging that f***ing drum that because other teams do it, that's the ONLY way to do it now....and yet...not one of those f***in teams, have won anything since 2010 with the exception of Florida, and it took them 12 years after that draft, to do it.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Whatever side of the development debate you are on... one fact is clear, none of the high picks have developed quickly or exceeded expectations... that is some combination of the pick and the development. Lets see if we can list young players or acquisitions that have thrived during the last 8 years: Kempe (after a long process), Moore, Durzi, Ando and?? There is a much longer list of players that have been huge disappointments.

Are you talking about just on LA, or just drafted by LA, Durzi and Moore wasn,t people wanted Durzi drubbed out out of town....

Probably add Vilardi to that list, Mikey Andersson, Matt Roy, Spence, Byfield, Clarke, etc, none have been quick, but I would say Roy and Andersson both have exceeded expectations, I think Byfield and Spence will,

But when the draft is a crapshoot as it is, there's ALWAYS going to be a much longer list of players that have disappointed, for all teams.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Are you talking about just on LA, or just drafted by LA, Durzi and Moore wasn,t people wanted Durzi drubbed out out of town....

Probably add Vilardi to that list, Mikey Andersson, Matt Roy, Spence, Byfield, Clarke, etc, none have been quick, but I would say Roy and Andersson both have exceeded expectations, I think Byfield and Spence will,

But when the draft is a crapshoot as it is, there's ALWAYS going to be a much longer list of players that have disappointed, for all teams.

I always liked Durzi but felt he was misused by Koala. His PP skills are top notch. But my point was mostly that it seems the Kings org during Blakes tenure has been below average on getting the high picks contributing - everywhere i look, some team has a hit with a young guy like Boldy, Johnston, Harley, Stuzle, etc.. and my secondary point was that not many young players in general (whether via draft in later rounds or through acquisition) have developed quickly... I feel like this orgs draft/development is sub par. It seems young guys get frustrated in this org.. I know Vilardi was... and Koala even said as much.

 

[Herby]

Whatever side of the development debate you are on... one fact is clear, none of the high picks have developed quickly or exceeded expectations... that is some combination of the pick and the development. Lets see if we can list young players or acquisitions that have thrived during the last 8 years: Kempe (after a long process), Moore, Durzi, Ando and?? There is a much longer list of players that have been huge disappointments.

Most of your top scorers are going to come from the 1st or 2nd round. We're in a spot now offensively because the results have been so bad from draft picks. Whoever you blame it really doesn't matter, it's a results oriented business and the results just haven't been there, whether you blame management, scouts, development. But this problem was easy to see coming from a mile away.

2017 1st (11) - Gone in trade for PLD (a negative asset)
2017 2nd - Gone to waivers
2018 1st (18) - Gone in trade for PLD
2018 2nd - Healthy scratch at 24
2019 1st (5) - 4th line center at 23
2019 1st (22) - Gone to waivers
2019 2nd - Huge question mark and injured
2019 2nd - AHL
2020 1st (2) - 2/3 C at 22
2020 2nd - Gone in trade for nothing (to clean up GM's mess with Cal P)
2020 2nd - Gone in trade for Fiala (probably best player they've drafted)
2021 1st (7) - 2nd/3rd pairing rookie defenseman
2021 2nd - AHL
2021 2nd - AHL

You can also add the traded 1sts in back to back drafts in 2022 and 2023.

No team in this league is going to be able to overcome these type of draft results to reach contender status, even when you have an ageless Kopitar still playing at a high level. Had the Kings been able to draft, develop and deploy these draft picks and achieved a reasonable ROI for these picks you could be looking at Kopitar and Doughty playing similar roles to what Seguin and Benn are playing for Dallas and the team is contending for a title. Instead they are still expected to be the best players on the team in 2024.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I always liked Durzi but felt he was misused by Koala. His PP skills are top notch. But my point was mostly that it seems the Kings org during Blakes tenure has been below average on getting the high picks contributing - everywhere i look, some team has a hit with a young guy like Boldy, Johnston, Harley, Stuzle, etc.. and my secondary point was that not many young players in general (whether via draft in later rounds or through acquisition) have developed quickly... I feel like this orgs draft/development is sub par. It seems young guys get frustrated in this org.. I know Vilardi was... and Koala even said as much.

Frustrated, sure, Vilardi was stuck behind Kopitar at one point, then they added Danault, then they moved him to wing etc, Vilardi also was handed a golden opportunity to take the 2nd line C job, and f***ed it up, he wasn't ready for that for whatever reason.

With the exception of Harley and Johnston, which I think Dallas is probably the top organization in integrating young talent while trying to win, as I pointed out in the other post, all of htat "young talent" are playing with ZERO expectations of winning, LA has never really done that, Blake sure sure hasn't, Lombardi did, then strayed, and no one ever did before Taylor etc.

I laughed when everyone was shitting on Durzi, he was and has always going to turn into a fine defenseman, the same people who shit on him, are the same ones shitting on Clarke after 2 games, so keep that in mind, this fan board has zero patience....just..none at all.

But we have had young guys come up and contribute, not necessarily offensively, but Roy and Andersson have on the defensive side, Spence now, Clarke will, Byfield is finally becoming the player he's supposed to be, it takes time and patience, otherwise you become Edmonton with 7 1st OA picks in 10 years and still can't win (7 in 10 is an exaggeration of course, but drives the point home)

 

[Herby]

You keep skipping over the fact that the only thing I've EVER said, is that it's prospect specific, it has always been that way, it will always be that way,

But let's address the drafts since 2010 and examine WHY those players have made the team out of camp, here's a hint (there's no f***ing pressure to win right away)

2010 - Edmonton - Hall, Boston Seguin - Edmonton bottom 10 team next year, no expectations, Boston, you have a point, that was the infamous TOR deal, but Seguin played right away, all 12 minutes average a game the entire year vs Hall's 18 minutes a game, (difference in team expectations)

2011 - Edmonton - RNH - Colorado - Landeskog - both out of the playoffs next year with no expectations of making them to begin with, RNH -17 min per game, Landeskog 18 min per game

2012 - Edmonton - Yakupov - Columbus - Murray (yes a D) again, both played right away, both teams ZERO expectations

2013 - COL MaKinnon, FLA - Barkov, see 2012, ZERO expectations

2014 - FLA -Ekblad - BUF Reinhart, ZERO expectations of winning

2015 - EDM - Mcdavid - BUF - Eichel - ZERO expecations of winning

2016 - TOR Matthews - WPG - Laine - TOR did have expectations, WPG did not (to be fair, TOR ALWAYS has expectations of winning

2017 - NJ Hischier - PHI - Patrick - ZERO expectations

2018 - BUF - Dahlin - CAR Svechkinkov - ZERO expectations

2019 - NJ Hughes - NYR - Kakko, no expectations

2020 - NYR - Laferrierre - LA - Byfield NYR no expectations, LA didn't have any expectations

2021 - BUF - Powers - SEA - Berniers, neither had expectations

2022 - MTF - Sflavsoky - NJ - Nemec MTL had no expectations, played him, NJ had expectations, sent him to the AHL

2023 - CHI Bedard - ANA - Carlsson - neither has expectations

2024 - SJ Celebrine - CHI Lyshunkov - neither has expectations, one in the NHL and not sure on Lyshunkov might be in the NHL but hasnt played as of yet,

So 14 years....28 picks.....ONE player has played that was drafted top 2, on a team that had expectations going into the next season after the draft....

Imagine that.

Again, there's a reason why they play them.....it's because there are ZERO expectations to win, LA started that with Byfield, then changed course and he was on track to make 2021 roster then broke his ankle.....

But you keep banging that f***ing drum that because other teams do it, that's the ONLY way to do it now....and yet...not one of those f***in teams, have won anything since 2010 with the exception of Florida, and it took them 12 years after that draft, to do it.

GBH,

In the 2020 season the Kings had no expectations either, why are you glossing over that point when referencing other teams?

The Kings finished tied for 6th/7th out of 8 teams in their division in the modified Covid standings. The Kings were the 7th worst team in the NHL that season. So why are you telling us the team had expectations? There was a very clear opening at 2C, one the Kings decided to fill with a winger who was never going to play C in the NHL.

BTW, just to further correct your falsehoods.

In Nathan MacKinnon's age 18 season the Colorado Avalanche finished with 112 points and won their division. How on Earth is that zero expectation?

In Svechnikov's rookie season the Hurricanes made it to the 2nd round. So that is "no expectation" and "no pressure" but the 2020-2021 Kings did?

In Hischier's rookie season the Devils made the playoffs, so making the playoffs is "no expectation" but missing the playoffs by 14 points (in a 56 game season!!) somehow doesn't warrant "no expectation"

Can you please do me a favor and clarify what "no expectation" vs "expectation" is. I'd love to know how the Colorado Avalanche who finished with 112 points or the Carolina Hurricanes who went to the 2nd round had "no expectations" but the Kings who played at a 71 point pace (over 82 games) finishing bottom 8 in the league for a second straight season had "expectations"

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

GBH,

In the 2020 season the Kings had no expectations either, why are you glossing over that point when referencing other teams?

The Kings finished tied for 6th/7th out of 8 teams in their division in the modified Covid standings. The Kings were the 7th worst team in the NHL that season. So why are you telling us the team had expectations? There was a very clear opening at 2C, one the Kings decided to fill with a winger who was never going to play C in the NHL.

BTW, just to further correct your falsehoods.

In Nathan MacKinnon's age 18 season the Colorado Avalanche finished with 112 points and won their division. How on Earth is that zero expectation?

In Svechnikov's rookie season the Hurricanes made it to the 2nd round. So that is "no expectation" and "no pressure" but the 2020-2021 Kings did?

In Hischier's rookie season the Devils made the playoffs, so making the playoffs is "no expectation" but missing the playoffs by 14 points (in a 56 game season!!) somehow doesn't warrant "no expectation"

Can you please do me a favor and clarify what "no expectation" vs "expectation" is. I'd love to know how the Colorado Avalanche who finished with 112 points or the Carolina Hurricanes who went to the 2nd round had "no expectations" but the Kings who played at a 71 point pace (over 82 games) finishing bottom 8 in the league for a second straight season had "expectations"

Read again? I literally said LA had no expectations either in 2020.

 

[BigKing]

Who was good game 1 really? I’m not making excuses but going after fiala for game one and the puck bouncing around like a football seems like an ice issue considering the fact every player couldn’t handle the puck.

Try to be more reasonable in your assessment rather than how aboutisms to deflect

Sure. His decisions with the puck have been poor and blaming the ice is a look in the mirror moment when telling someone how to assess the play.

He'll be better. He's been bad though and today was no different. Kings scored a fluke three goals and then one today. If the best scorer on the team is not playing well, it should be the first thing we talk about. Instead, it's a bunch of Lewis trashing.

 

[kingsfan28]

I always liked Durzi but felt he was misused by Koala. His PP skills are top notch. But my point was mostly that it seems the Kings org during Blakes tenure has been below average on getting the high picks contributing - everywhere i look, some team has a hit with a young guy like Boldy, Johnston, Harley, Stuzle, etc.. and my secondary point was that not many young players in general (whether via draft in later rounds or through acquisition) have developed quickly... I feel like this orgs draft/development is sub par. It seems young guys get frustrated in this org.. I know Vilardi was... and Koala even said as much.

Vilardi was an odd dude. He wanted to be a center, but it was pretty obvious he wasn't suited for it after 1 year, then was moved to the wing. He then excelled at the wing, and started scoring, yet was still frustrated he wasn't playing center. Tmac put him back there a few games due to injury, and it didn't work, he looked a step slow. He's still playing wing in WPG.

The Kings miss Durzi running pp 2. They have nobody who can, and Spence once again proves he can't get a shot through with any consistency. I'm hoping Clarke will one day fill that role, then run pp 1 in the future.