2024-25 San Diego Gulls/Tulsa Oilers

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

I don’t want boom or bust, I want someone with top 6 potential.

Agree to disagree that Gaucher ever had 2nd line potential.

Here is multiple people saying he has top 6 potential.

Nathan Gaucher — 2022 NHL Draft Prospect Profile - The Hockey Writers NHL Entry Draft Latest News, Analysis & More

Nathan Gaucher is a draft eligible prospect expected to go somewhere in the 20-40 range in the draft. Here is his draft profile.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[2faded]

I agree. I think I’m one of a few around here who’s been grumbling about Madden for a bit. We just haven’t found any depth forwards whereas other teams have. And I’m not expecting a plethora of them, just 1 or 2 would’ve gone a long way.

Madden has only made 2 impressive forward picks in his entire tenure IMO: Rakell and Terry.

Of course player development goes into this as well, but our drafting of forwards hasn’t been good.

Palmieri.

But in general I agree. A lot of our prospects are playing over the heads in the NHL because guys like Comtois, Jones, Tracey, Perrault busted when they should be producing in the middle 6 right now.

 

[Frosted Tips]

Palmieri.

But in general I agree. A lot of our prospects are playing over the heads in the NHL because guys like Comtois, Jones, Tracey, Perrault busted when they should be producing in the middle 6 right now.

W. Karlsson wasn't bad either, just took a while to find his game in the NHL.

 

[FiveTacos]

I would say that top 6 is quite literally the definition of “booming”.

There is no such thing as a probable top 6 player anywhere after like pick 8OA

Yes, if forwards with top 6 potential were that easy to find late in the 1st round, contenders would restock all the time. And teams in the mediocre midrange would never have problems filling out their lines and moving up in the rankings. But the reality is there just aren't that many scoring forwards available later in the draft.

And at least we do make good D picks all the time, which can be parlayed into forwards later. Many teams don't even do that. Plenty of teams out there don't have even one D prospect as good as any of our top couple of guys. The important thing is to draft SOMETHING well, and we do that.

 

[tomd]

It all boils down to the old maxim...always always take the Best Player Available in the first two rounds of the draft. If the BPA is a bruising center you take him. If the BPA is a scoring winger you take him. Never never never draft for need in hockey.

Teams that draft the BPA can be held accountable as well. If a team has a BPA philosophy and their picks keep busting then you know their scouts suck at ranking players. The Ducks clearly do not draft the BPA and they are paying the price for it. Worse still, it is impossible to hold anyone accountable for consistently having underperforming picks.

 

[MMC]

The Ducks clearly do not draft the BPA

What does this even mean? I'm pretty certain the Ducks are selecting the guys that THEY think are the best players available when they're making their picks. There's nothing resembling a consensus BPA at that point in the draft

 

[tomd]

What does this even mean? I'm pretty certain the Ducks are selecting the guys that THEY think are the best players available when they're making their picks. There's nothing resembling a consensus BPA at that point in the draft

Reading the comments of Verbeek/Madden going back to 2019 it has been pretty obvious to me that the drafting philosophy even pre-Verbeek was roster construction rather than BPA. And that's fine if you actually take good players. But history has shown that the players they've taken weren't/aren't good and there were much better options available for those picks. I'm actually trying to be generous in explaining why they've taken so many busts recently. It's just a bad drafting philosophy IMO.

Now, if you want to say they are actually taking the BPA in their rankings then history has shown that their rankings are crap. And that means they need to overhaul their scouting system. To me this is a key issue to discuss because the Ducks are committed to building through the draft...but if they don't draft well then we'll be dealing with a rebuild forever. Can't count on top 3 picks every year after all.

Who have they drafted out of the top 10 in the last decade that has made a significant contribution to the current team? Terry and maybe LaCombe and Zellweger (maybe). That's it! That's an awful record and I really can't believe anyone would (or could) spin it any other way.

 

[mightyquack]

The funny thing is, outside of Colangelo, Gaucher is the most likely to become a long term NHL forward on the Gulls current roster. Sidorov and Pastujov (who has been very good since coming back from Tulsa) are probably the next after that but both are longer shots. But I digress, I've posted a fair bit about my thoughts on Gaucher's projection, some people won't ever be happy with it and that's fair enough, but he will be an regular NHL player within the next couple of seasons.

Gulls had a pretty disappointing game v Bakersfield. Woeful first period, great 2nd period and woeful 3rd period. Defence wasn't great and Buteyets looked overrawed in his AHL debut, not great lateral movement in the crease and rebound control was average at best.

Colangelo 1+1
Gaucher 1+0
Pastujov 0+2
Sidorov 0+1

Dionico has returned to the Gulls line up the last three games and I thought he's been pretty solid. Hasn't registered points but has looked really confident skating the puck out of the zone and creating offense. Hopefully he can get back to regular games now as his skill is pretty evident when he plays.

Pasta keeps producing since his recall from Tulsa too...I'm a bit bias as I'm still a big believer in him but his skating looks to have taken a step forward (probably improvement still required) as he's managing to find himself with a bit more space and separation compared to last year so his skill has started to show. 3+4 in his last 5 games.

Lueanu hasn't played since 17 December, I'm not sure if there is an injury there or if it's just on the outer in San Diego right now.

Nesterenko continues to be a disappointment, bad penalties, bad turnovers and almost zero offence. I'd be surprised if he gets a second contract from the Ducks based on this season so far.

Still not a believer in McIlvane myself. Gulls don't have the best forward talent but the hockey they play is truly insipid most nights.

 

[Kalv]

The funny thing is, outside of Colangelo, Gaucher is the most likely to become a long term NHL forward on the Gulls current roster. Sidorov and Pastujov (who has been very good since coming back from Tulsa) are probably the next after that but both are longer shots. But I digress, I've posted a fair bit about my thoughts on Gaucher's projection, some people won't ever be happy with it and that's fair enough, but he will be an regular NHL player within the next couple of seasons.

Gulls had a pretty disappointing game v Bakersfield. Woeful first period, great 2nd period and woeful 3rd period. Defence wasn't great and Buteyets looked overrawed in his AHL debut, not great lateral movement in the crease and rebound control was average at best.

Colangelo 1+1
Gaucher 1+0
Pastujov 0+2
Sidorov 0+1

Dionico has returned to the Gulls line up the last three games and I thought he's been pretty solid. Hasn't registered points but has looked really confident skating the puck out of the zone and creating offense. Hopefully he can get back to regular games now as his skill is pretty evident when he plays.

Pasta keeps producing since his recall from Tulsa too...I'm a bit bias as I'm still a big believer in him but his skating looks to have taken a step forward (probably improvement still required) as he's managing to find himself with a bit more space and separation compared to last year so his skill has started to show. 3+4 in his last 5 games.

Lueanu hasn't played since 17 December, I'm not sure if there is an injury there or if it's just on the outer in San Diego right now.

Nesterenko continues to be a disappointment, bad penalties, bad turnovers and almost zero offence. I'd be surprised if he gets a second contract from the Ducks based on this season so far.

Still not a believer in McIlvane myself. Gulls don't have the best forward talent but the hockey they play is truly insipid most nights.

As for Luneau, Defend the Nest reports that he got some illness: San Diego Gulls vs Ontario Reign - December 27 2024

 

[Kalv]

The Defend The Nest guy shares some frustration about the lack of organisational depth here at the end. And I, and believe many more here, would agree: San Diego Gulls vs Bakersfield Condors - December 28 2024

We're just letting our AHL team be abmess. Pat seems to not be concerned about it.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Reading the comments of Verbeek/Madden going back to 2019 it has been pretty obvious to me that the drafting philosophy even pre-Verbeek was roster construction rather than BPA. And that's fine if you actually take good players. But history has shown that the players they've taken weren't/aren't good and there were much better options available for those picks. I'm actually trying to be generous in explaining why they've taken so many busts recently. It's just a bad drafting philosophy IMO.

Now, if you want to say they are actually taking the BPA in their rankings then history has shown that their rankings are crap. And that means they need to overhaul their scouting system. To me this is a key issue to discuss because the Ducks are committed to building through the draft...but if they don't draft well then we'll be dealing with a rebuild forever. Can't count on top 3 picks every year after all.

Who have they drafted out of the top 10 in the last decade that has made a significant contribution to the current team? Terry and maybe LaCombe and Zellweger (maybe). That's it! That's an awful record and I really can't believe anyone would (or could) spin it any other way.

Can you please show those quotes that lead you to believe this ?

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Reading the comments of Verbeek/Madden going back to 2019 it has been pretty obvious to me that the drafting philosophy even pre-Verbeek was roster construction rather than BPA. And that's fine if you actually take good players. But history has shown that the players they've taken weren't/aren't good and there were much better options available for those picks. I'm actually trying to be generous in explaining why they've taken so many busts recently. It's just a bad drafting philosophy IMO.

Now, if you want to say they are actually taking the BPA in their rankings then history has shown that their rankings are crap. And that means they need to overhaul their scouting system. To me this is a key issue to discuss because the Ducks are committed to building through the draft...but if they don't draft well then we'll be dealing with a rebuild forever. Can't count on top 3 picks every year after all.

Who have they drafted out of the top 10 in the last decade that has made a significant contribution to the current team? Terry and maybe LaCombe and Zellweger (maybe). That's it! That's an awful record and I really can't believe anyone would (or could) spin it any other way.

In fact here is a direct madden quote…

On balancing fit against taking the best player available
Fit is a talking point. It is something we discuss as we project our young core into the future. But we can't be distracted from analyzing who the best player at third overall will be five years from now. That's our job. It doesn't matter if the player fits better or what we think will need three years from now. If he turns out to be the 10th best player or the 20th best player of this draft, then we will have missed...Obviously we can't just say that we don't talk about fit and that it doesn't influence a little bit on the decision making, but at number three it's not going to have a big impact.


So while yes he admits fit matters, it doesn’t seem to be the main factor, otherwise I don’t think we pick Stian with all the LHD in our prospect pool either.

 

[tomd]

In fact here is a direct madden quote…

On balancing fit against taking the best player available
Fit is a talking point. It is something we discuss as we project our young core into the future. But we can't be distracted from analyzing who the best player at third overall will be five years from now. That's our job. It doesn't matter if the player fits better or what we think will need three years from now. If he turns out to be the 10th best player or the 20th best player of this draft, then we will have missed...Obviously we can't just say that we don't talk about fit and that it doesn't influence a little bit on the decision making, but at number three it's not going to have a big impact.


So while yes he admits fit matters, it doesn’t seem to be the main factor, otherwise I don’t think we pick Stian with all the LHD in our prospect pool either.

Here is another quote from (the same?) Derek Lee interview where he admits they have drafted for need in the past (twice is what he'll admit to):

(General manager Pat Verbeek) talked about what he wants for the parent club, the top roster. But organizationally, what needs are you guys looking to fill, whether it’s through free agency, trades or the draft?
In terms of needs through the draft––I think I said it last year, I’ll say it again this year––we went in that direction twice in the last 10 years and it didn’t work out for us. Those picks were forced and five years later, I’m not even sure it would have addressed the need we have at this time. So we’re going to go with the old boring way and say that we’re going to go with the best player available according to our opinion and our projection. Then, hopefully, it gives Pat some flexibility down the road to make trades like he did this year, using Jamie (Drysdale) to acquire Cutter (Gauthier). If we can help in that way, we’ll have done our jobs.
________

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Here is another quote from (the same?) Derek Lee interview where he admits they have drafted for need in the past (twice is what he'll admit to):

(General manager Pat Verbeek) talked about what he wants for the parent club, the top roster. But organizationally, what needs are you guys looking to fill, whether it’s through free agency, trades or the draft?
In terms of needs through the draft––I think I said it last year, I’ll say it again this year––we went in that direction twice in the last 10 years and it didn’t work out for us. Those picks were forced and five years later, I’m not even sure it would have addressed the need we have at this time. So we’re going to go with the old boring way and say that we’re going to go with the best player available according to our opinion and our projection. Then, hopefully, it gives Pat some flexibility down the road to make trades like he did this year, using Jamie (Drysdale) to acquire Cutter (Gauthier). If we can help in that way, we’ll have done our jobs.
________

Yeah and it sounds like Martin wasn’t a fan of doing that. And it sounds like Verbeek isn’t a fan of that. So to me, it sounds like GMBM was the guy deciding to do that.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Here is another quote from (the same?) Derek Lee interview where he admits they have drafted for need in the past (twice is what he'll admit to):

(General manager Pat Verbeek) talked about what he wants for the parent club, the top roster. But organizationally, what needs are you guys looking to fill, whether it’s through free agency, trades or the draft?
In terms of needs through the draft––I think I said it last year, I’ll say it again this year––we went in that direction twice in the last 10 years and it didn’t work out for us. Those picks were forced and five years later, I’m not even sure it would have addressed the need we have at this time. So we’re going to go with the old boring way and say that we’re going to go with the best player available according to our opinion and our projection. Then, hopefully, it gives Pat some flexibility down the road to make trades like he did this year, using Jamie (Drysdale) to acquire Cutter (Gauthier). If we can help in that way, we’ll have done our jobs.
________

I'll guess it was the 2016 and 2017 drafts. That was when we started drafting a multitude of forwards and not addressing a balanced draft with defensemen.

2018 wasn't a balanced draft, but we did find success in Lundy and Dostal. BO was a longer term project, but Verbeek made BO a full time NHL'er when he still wasn't ready yet and then let him go after last season. BO is a good AHL'er and could use him in San Diego as that bridge for our youths. He's currently 2nd in scoring for the AHL Hartford Wolfpack for the NYR.