Speculation: 2024-25 Roster thread

[Ducks DVM]

Sorry for the word salad, wanted to get all my thoughts out.

I don't necessarily want to trade him at this point but I don't think it's accurate to say his issues this year have just been that he's been streaky. Don't get me wrong, 54 points is still a productive player and I'd be reluctant to move away from that, but at the same time it's not enough to just look at the steaky nature of his production and say you've adequately captured the issues he brings to this team on an individual basis. Everyone on this team struggles with puck management to some degree, I just want to say that off the rip. But with Terry, it's especially problematic because he's the biggest puck hog on the team and while he showed some flashes over the course of the year of starting to play the right way (e.g. knowing when and how to utilize his teammates more), he never stuck with it. For the most part, over his 76 games, he would constantly try to play hero puck holding possession for way too long trying to dangle through player after player and by the time he decided it was time to pass it was usually at a point where he ran out of room and was about to get dispossessed and on more occasions than not it would result in bad passes and turnovers. Like, I get you like the guy and I do too but after 76 games worth of a sample, it should be obvious that this is a very problematic part of his game and one that consistently killed offensive flow for our top young forward who had to spend shift after shift not getting the puck and chasing in the neutral and defensive zones specifically because of Terry's poor decisions with the puck.

It's not so much a question of should we trade him right now as it is can Terry adapt and evolve his game next year to stop playing a way that actively drags the team back. I don't think it's enough to say "well at least he's producing" and that just because he's capable of putting up more than 40 points we should just accept that he is an active puck possession liability no matter what line he is on. Since Cutter's debut a lot of Ducks fans here and around the internet have been speculating on potential line combos next year and I can't speak for anyone else, but I hate any line Terry is proposed to be on because it feels like that line will have to spend a lot of time puck chasing because Terry has been below average at synergizing with his linemates and being a puck distributor when he needs to be. Again, I don't think his raw stats excuse that his overall play is problematic. I hope he turns it around. I really do. I like him as a player and person but he's not done developing. And I think, if after next year, he continues to be a liability on offensive game flow and possession, then you should look at trading him for value.

I do think that part of what is ignored with Terry is just how bad his linemates are at being useful (Terry also does this when they have the puck). They don’t go to the net. They doesn’t skate to where they either aren’t covered of there’s an open passing lane. They don’t properly support when someone actually chases the dump in in the corner. (Carlsson is especially egregious at this - he stands motionless 10’ away where he’s not guarded the open opposing player if the puck is lost OR moving to support and create an outnumbered attack - he stands there and then plays chase as the puck goes up ice. I’m fairly certain that’s because Cronin is the only idiot who’s ever told him he has to play dump and chase in his entire career and he’s just not sure what to do).

If Zegras, Killorn, and Carlsson could hit an open net Terry would easily have 70+ points. And Terry plays hero puck mainly when his linemates aren’t doing much. As does Carlsson, and as does Zegras. I put it far more on Cronin trying to pretend he has a team of power forwards instead of a team of finesse guys, and is coaching them in a scheme that neuters their talents.

I also don’t think there’s a player on the entire team that played reliably well for more than 8-10 games at a go the entire season.

Edit - let’s also give Terry some time with Gauthier and Colangelo before we decide he can’t play with them. Vatrano McTavish Terry was also a very effective line before the injuries hit and then Cronin refused to ever reunite the line for some reason.

 

[HanSolo]

I do think that part of what is ignored with Terry is just how bad his linemates are at being useful (Terry also does this when they have the puck). They don’t go to the net. They doesn’t skate to where they either aren’t covered of there’s an open passing lane. They don’t properly support when someone actually chases the dump in in the corner. (Carlsson is especially egregious at this - he stands motionless 10’ away where he’s not guarded the open opposing player if the puck is lost OR moving to support and create an outnumbered attack - he stands there and then plays chase as the puck goes up ice. I’m fairly certain that’s because Cronin is the only idiot who’s ever told him he has to play dump and chase in his entire career and he’s just not sure what to do).

If Zegras, Killorn, and Carlsson could hit an open net Terry would easily have 70+ points. And Terry plays hero puck mainly when his linemates aren’t doing much. As does Carlsson, and as does Zegras. I put it far more on Cronin trying to pretend he has a team of power forwards instead of a team of finesse guys, and is coaching them in a scheme that neuters their talents.

I also don’t think there’s a player on the entire team that played reliably well for more than 8-10 games at a go the entire season.

Edit - let’s also give Terry some time with Gauthier and Colangelo before we decide he can’t play with them. Vatrano McTavish Terry was also a very effective line before the injuries hit and then Cronin refused to ever reunite the line for some reason.

There's parts of this I disagree with but I don't feel like we can have a productive argument without doing a deep dive on footage from games. Overall though I do agree with your premise that Cronin is trying to force a style of play/tactics that doesn't suit these players.

As for your last point I think I'm game to see a line of Colangelo-Mac-Terry with an aspirational hope that Mac builds more mass and strength in the offseason. Mac has play driver tendencies but I think he's got a good enough sense of when to pass off, disengage and let someone else dictate the flow. If both Mac and Colangelo can get strong on their feet I think they can somewhat substitute in the advantage Terry used to get from Getzlaf of guys who can disrupt defense through size and strength alone (not necessarily that they're shoving guys aside, but I feel stronger players tend to be less likely to get directly marked so Colangelo and Mac could move guys around just by roving while Terry works) and give Terry more room to work his puck handling.

I don't think that works if Cronin insists on making them a dump and chase/board cycle line. Terry doesn't really play that style well at all.

I'm all for trying Terry with Gauthier but we have differing opinions on Terry's playmaking ability (as it stands right now. I think Terry can be effective at setting guys up but he doesn't get himself into position to do that enough). Right now, off our very limited sample size, I'd like to see Cutter stay with Leo. They worked well together in that first game and it's worth seeing if they can build off that. I just don't feel like Terry and Leo have any chemistry whatsoever.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

We need a true physical top pair rhd to pair with minty imho

I agree there

 

[DavidBL]

I feel like most teams rely on dumping the puck in to some extent. I'm not sure I'd agree that the team actively dumps the puck when they can carry it in instead.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Luneau needs to go to A and ripen.. Fowler needs be off the 1st pair.. Myntikov and zellweger would be good together. His body is tired.. He needs less minutes.

The whole "ripening" thought went out the window last year. We just finished year 2 of the Verbeekening Rebuild. Anaheim should still be in development mode going into next year because we'll probably have LW Cutter, LD/RD Zell, and RD Luneau starting with the NHL club next season, at a minimum, with the possibility that RW Colangelo could be that RW that Verbeek thought about acquiring.

I'm baffled at the thought of removing Fowler off the 1st pair because we're utilizing Fowler as the buffer for our other youth defenseman as well as be the babysitter of rookie or youth d-men (Drysdale, Luneau, LaCombe, and Zell). We did try Gudas in a top-pairing role with Minty, but Gudas' body couldn't hold up and Minty couldn't carry Gudas.

Minty-Zell should never be a thing next season. Minty struggled once he started seeing top-4 minutes on the regular. Zell played with Fowler on his second call up, but we were trading offense with defense and Zell was heavily sheltered.

Minty
Game Set	Games	G	A	Pts		+/-	Hit	Blocks	Comment
Total	63	4	24	28		-20	85	65	Total
1 to 20	20	1	10	11		-1	30	24	3rd pair
21 to 63	43	3	14	17		-19	55	41	top-4 minutes

Zell
Game Set	Games	G	A	Pts		+/-	Hit	Blocks
Total	26	2	7	9		-6	14	38
1st call up	3	0	1	1		0	3	5
2nd call up	23	2	6	8		-6	11	33

Zone Starts
Player	OZ Start	DZ Start
Fowler	50.9​	49.1​
Gudas	38.8​	61.2​
Hagg	47.6​	52.4​
LaCombe	44.2​	55.8​
Lagesson	46.0​	54.0​
Lindstrom	39.8​	60.2​
Luneau	43.0​	57.0​
Lyubushkin	48.0​	52.0​
Minty	49.1​	50.9​
Vaak	42.4​	57.6​
Zell	56.0​	44.0​

We can identify that Zell was inserted in the OZone the most out of all of our players, making him the most sheltered D-man on the team.

The D-man that surprised me the most was Lindstrom. We kept him on the DZone start 60% of the time and he finished with 6pts and a +12 rating, 2nd highest behind Gudas' +14! Granted, Lindstrom was playing 3rd pairing minutes, but that's still amazing.

Cronin denoted that LaCombe was one of the few players that improved throughout the season. I'll give a summary table than a complete breakdown to show improvement. Games 7 to 20, LaCombe was the starting RD with Fowler on the top line.

LaCombe
Game Set	Games	G	A	Pts		+/-	Hit	Blocks
Total	71	2	15	17		-24	50	129
1 to 20	20	0	3	3		-16	18	28
21 to 71	51	2	12	14		-8	32	101

LaCombe is our 3rd best shot blocker behind Gudas (154 blocks) and Lyubushkin (138 blocks). That 51 game sample is a large enough as proof of improvement, becoming a net positive with Points - Plus/minus. The team should keep LaCombe in the lineup often because that progress development looks great as a rookie.

 

[Leonardo87]

I put it far more on Cronin trying to pretend he has a team of power forwards instead of a team of finesse guys, and is coaching them in a scheme that neuters their talents.

I also don’t think there’s a player on the entire team that played reliably well for more than 8-10 games at a go the entire season.

Yeah I’d put more fault on the system and coaching than the players who are also to blame don’t get me wrong.

Frank Vatrano blowing his career numbers away with 60 points and 37 goals is beyond remarkable. Lol

 

[Ducks DVM]

Yeah I’d put more fault on the system and coaching than the players who are also to blame don’t get me wrong.

Frank Vatrano blowing his career numbers away with 60 points and 37 goals is beyond remarkable. Lol

Frank has never met a shot he doesn’t like, and he’s good at getting to a place to take them. He’s getting time with folks who can and will feed him the puck that he wouldn’t get on a 3rd line elsewhere.

Good for him.

 

[Leonardo87]

Frank has never met a shot he doesn’t like, and he’s good at getting to a place to take them. He’s getting time with folks who can and will feed him the puck that he wouldn’t get on a 3rd line elsewhere.

Good for him.

This is what I hope Gauthier can do. Taking the shot and not trying to pass back or be too cute with a pass. We saw that in his first game he will take the shot. Which is really needed in our Top 9.

I know folks don’t think it will work but I hope Vatrano takes an extension, his next contract we should be competing…….no better be. lol

 

[robbieboy3686]

The whole "ripening" thought went out the window last year. We just finished year 2 of the Verbeekening Rebuild. Anaheim should still be in development mode going into next year because we'll probably have LW Cutter, LD/RD Zell, and RD Luneau starting with the NHL club next season, at a minimum, with the possibility that RW Colangelo could be that RW that Verbeek thought about acquiring.

I'm baffled at the thought of removing Fowler off the 1st pair because we're utilizing Fowler as the buffer for our other youth defenseman as well as be the babysitter of rookie or youth d-men (Drysdale, Luneau, LaCombe, and Zell). We did try Gudas in a top-pairing role with Minty, but Gudas' body couldn't hold up and Minty couldn't carry Gudas.

Minty-Zell should never be a thing next season. Minty struggled once he started seeing top-4 minutes on the regular. Zell played with Fowler on his second call up, but we were trading offense with defense and Zell was heavily sheltered.

Minty
Game Set	Games	G	A	Pts		+/-	Hit	Blocks	Comment
Total	63	4	24	28		-20	85	65	Total
1 to 20	20	1	10	11		-1	30	24	3rd pair
21 to 63	43	3	14	17		-19	55	41	top-4 minutes

Zell
Game Set	Games	G	A	Pts		+/-	Hit	Blocks
Total	26	2	7	9		-6	14	38
1st call up	3	0	1	1		0	3	5
2nd call up	23	2	6	8		-6	11	33

Zone Starts
Player	OZ Start	DZ Start
Fowler	50.9​	49.1​
Gudas	38.8​	61.2​
Hagg	47.6​	52.4​
LaCombe	44.2​	55.8​
Lagesson	46.0​	54.0​
Lindstrom	39.8​	60.2​
Luneau	43.0​	57.0​
Lyubushkin	48.0​	52.0​
Minty	49.1​	50.9​
Vaak	42.4​	57.6​
Zell	56.0​	44.0​

We can identify that Zell was inserted in the OZone the most out of all of our players, making him the most sheltered D-man on the team.

The D-man that surprised me the most was Lindstrom. We kept him on the DZone start 60% of the time and he finished with 6pts and a +12 rating, 2nd highest behind Gudas' +14! Granted, Lindstrom was playing 3rd pairing minutes, but that's still amazing.

Cronin denoted that LaCombe was one of the few players that improved throughout the season. I'll give a summary table than a complete breakdown to show improvement. Games 7 to 20, LaCombe was the starting RD with Fowler on the top line.

LaCombe
Game Set	Games	G	A	Pts		+/-	Hit	Blocks
Total	71	2	15	17		-24	50	129
1 to 20	20	0	3	3		-16	18	28
21 to 71	51	2	12	14		-8	32	101

LaCombe is our 3rd best shot blocker behind Gudas (154 blocks) and Lyubushkin (138 blocks). That 51 game sample is a large enough as proof of improvement, becoming a net positive with Points - Plus/minus. The team should keep LaCombe in the lineup often because that progress development looks great as a rookie.

Colágeno absolutely is not the top 6 forward that he talked about bringing in. Said player, will be a true established right handed shot that we pay big bucks too.

 

[Deuce22]

The thing is that Terry was completely capable of dangling through players last year, it IS absolutely in his skill set. Carlsson clearly isn’t strong enough to do it effectively - yet.I expect he will be able to dance right through people in 2 seasons doesn’t absolve him of also being a selfish turnover machine right now, but the story has become that a player who’s shown the ability to actually do what he’s trying to do in the past but is currently struggling (and yet still greatly outproducing all but 1 player) is a 7 year boat anchor that needs to be unloaded but the promising flashy kid who’s never proven he can do it shouldn’t be called out for trying to do the same thing repeatedly because reason is what I find comical. Failing is failing. There’s no reason to think Terry can’t get back to form, and no reason to think Carlsson won’t be the significantly better player - but he isn’t right now. He’s much more talented, but he’s not put it together (or put on the muscle) YET.

I’m not bashing Carlsson, and I wasn’t constantly bashing him during the season. I’m calling people out for not holding both players to the same standards, and wanting to trade the one that’s currently significantly more effective from a production standpoint.

A rookie and a vet making $7M per shouldn’t be held to the same standard.

 

[Vaakou]

Mac isn't a line driver? Surely you have not been watching games.

Mac's line cycles, knowing full well his linemates are passing the puck around and playing that physical game. Terry isn't his best at cycling nor is he built for it.

"Mac isn't a line driver? Surely you have not been watching games."
"Mac's line cycles"

OK bud. make up your mind.

That's the problem with Terry though, what kind of line is he built for?

I do think that part of what is ignored with Terry is just how bad his linemates are at being useful (Terry also does this when they have the puck). They don’t go to the net. They doesn’t skate to where they either aren’t covered of there’s an open passing lane. They don’t properly support when someone actually chases the dump in in the corner. (Carlsson is especially egregious at this - he stands motionless 10’ away where he’s not guarded the open opposing player if the puck is lost OR moving to support and create an outnumbered attack - he stands there and then plays chase as the puck goes up ice. I’m fairly certain that’s because Cronin is the only idiot who’s ever told him he has to play dump and chase in his entire career and he’s just not sure what to do).

If Zegras, Killorn, and Carlsson could hit an open net Terry would easily have 70+ points. And Terry plays hero puck mainly when his linemates aren’t doing much. As does Carlsson, and as does Zegras. I put it far more on Cronin trying to pretend he has a team of power forwards instead of a team of finesse guys, and is coaching them in a scheme that neuters their talents.

I also don’t think there’s a player on the entire team that played reliably well for more than 8-10 games at a go the entire season.

Edit - let’s also give Terry some time with Gauthier and Colangelo before we decide he can’t play with them. Vatrano McTavish Terry was also a very effective line before the injuries hit and then Cronin refused to ever reunite the line for some reason.

I lost count how many time i was shouting "Terry pass the f***ing puck" halfway in to the season. I don''t agree with this at all.

 

[Ducks DVM]

A rookie and a vet making $7M per shouldn’t be held to the same standard.

I agree. The Veteran who has previously done that action successfully should be given more leeway than the rookie who never has, until they’re actually ready to do so without causing turnovers.

 

[Ducks DVM]

"Mac isn't a line driver? Surely you have not been watching games."
"Mac's line cycles"

OK bud. make up your mind.

That's the problem with Terry though, what kind of line is he built for?


I lost count how many time i was shouting "Terry pass the f***ing puck" halfway in to the season. I don''t agree with this at all.

And how many times did you pay attention to what the other players were doing to get open?

 

[JAHV]

Dangling is what Terry does best at this point. We've seen him be very good at it, beginning a couple of years ago when he put on enough strength to get through some checks, and he played with Getzlaf who got him the puck in good areas. He's also got a very good wrist shot.

He's also got vision to find his teammates, but he's really not good at getting the puck to them. I actually thought that was his best attribute when he was coming up, simply because he would get knocked off the puck by a stiff wind, so passing the puck seemed like the way to go. And you can see him TRY to make good passes, but either he telegraphs them or he's not precise enough to get them through sticks and bodies. I think his failure at passing has led him to use his stickhandling and shot more often, which makes sense.

But it also hurts the team when he holds onto the puck too long, and especially when he skates himself into corners and turns the puck over at the blueline. I think he needs linemates who can play without the puck to get him space, and I think he needs a mental reset to get back to moving the puck into dangerous areas and not out of them, making simple plays when necessary. Part of this is on Cronin figuring out a better system to play when Terry is on the ice. But I do think McTavish is a good linemate for him. McT is an under-rated passer, and he's a big body who goes to the net and occupies defenders. I don't know if Vatrano is the right fit for the opposite side. Colangelo seems like someone who could work. Vatrano needs a pure passer/playmaker to find him. Killorn maybe? But I don't think Zegras or Carlsson are the right fits for Terry in the middle.

 

[Deuce22]

I agree. The Veteran who has previously done that action successfully should be given more leeway than the rookie who never has, until they’re actually ready to do so without causing turnovers.

I see it differently. The vet who is getting paid and regresses, turning the puck over while often ignoring his teammates, should be more harshly judged. A rookie is going to make mistakes. It’s part of the growth process.

 

[HanSolo]

And how many times did you pay attention to what the other players were doing to get open?

I don't want to keep butting heads with you but plenty of times. Plenty of times they're not open, I'm not going to pretend your belief has no merit but I don't think it's entirely accurate if your position is that Terry only holds onto the puck because his linemates are never open. I don't know if Terry is looking for passes to be directly into the slot only or he wants every play he makes to be dazzling, but there's plenty of times a simple pass cycle play is available to him and he keeps holding it. That's why it's so noticeable, we can see that a play can keep going if he utilizes his teammates and it's that much more frustrating when he holds onto it for 8-15 seconds longer than he should only for it to result in a turnover.

It's either he doesn't trust his linemates to keep that kind of cycle going or he wants to be the guy to either score it or set up the goal every time directly from his stick. He's got the talent to produce but he doesn't have enough talent to play the way he seems to insist on and I don't think you can excuse that away by claiming Killorn, Leo and the on ice defense pair are never open to move the defense around through offensive zone passing play.

I agree. The Veteran who has previously done that action successfully should be given more leeway than the rookie who never has, until they’re actually ready to do so without causing turnovers.

Again, I don't think this is entirely accurate. Yeah we've all seen Leo fumble deke attempts but it just feels dishonest to say he's never beaten a defender with his stick handling. Like it's just not true. No one is saying Terry never successfully dangles past defenders. A lot of the time he actually does on the first attempt but he'll try to dangle 1-3 more defenders before attempting to do anything with the puck and that's where a lot of the problems come from.

 

[Vaakou]

And how many times did you pay attention to what the other players were doing to get open?

Because everytime they were wide open.

 

[AngelDuck]

I’d like to see:

Gauthier-Carlsson-X
Vatrano-McTavish-Terry
Killorn-Zegras-Colangelo/Strome

Or

Gauthier-Carlsson-Killorn
Zegras-McTavish-X
Vatrano-Strome-Terry

The X is Stamkos or other proven scorer

Killorn showed down the stretch that he’s not completely washed. I just hope he can stay functional like that for 2 more seasons

The bottom line to me is that McTavish needs to be playing and developing chemistry with one of Zegras or Terry if you’re going to make Guathier/Carlsson a long term thing

 

[Son of Gib]

Can Zell really play RD as comfortably as LD?

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Wasn’t sure where to post this. Mods can move it.


I find it interesting that Cronin apparently rode them hard. The only one he gave benching to was Zegras

 

[StreetHawk]

Can Zell really play RD as comfortably as LD?

Very few Dmen are as good on their offsides. Of their 2 vets and 3 kids only Gudas is a right shot. The 2 spares lindstrom is A right shot. Need a good vet D to pair each kid with one.

 

[Ducks DVM]

View attachment 855942

Wasn’t sure where to post this. Mods can move it.


I find it interesting that Cronin apparently rode them hard. The only one he gave benching to was Zegras

Carlsson, McTavish, Zellweger also ride the bench at times.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I don't want to keep butting heads with you but plenty of times. Plenty of times they're not open, I'm not going to pretend your belief has no merit but I don't think it's entirely accurate if your position is that Terry only holds onto the puck because his linemates are never open. I don't know if Terry is looking for passes to be directly into the slot only or he wants every play he makes to be dazzling, but there's plenty of times a simple pass cycle play is available to him and he keeps holding it. That's why it's so noticeable, we can see that a play can keep going if he utilizes his teammates and it's that much more frustrating when he holds onto it for 8-15 seconds longer than he should only for it to result in a turnover.

It's either he doesn't trust his linemates to keep that kind of cycle going or he wants to be the guy to either score it or set up the goal every time directly from his stick. He's got the talent to produce but he doesn't have enough talent to play the way he seems to insist on and I don't think you can excuse that away by claiming Killorn, Leo and the on ice defense pair are never open to move the defense around through offensive zone passing play.

Again, I don't think this is entirely accurate. Yeah we've all seen Leo fumble deke attempts but it just feels dishonest to say he's never beaten a defender with his stick handling. Like it's just not true. No one is saying Terry never successfully dangles past defenders. A lot of the time he actually does on the first attempt but he'll try to dangle 1-3 more defenders before attempting to do anything with the puck and that's where a lot of the problems come from.

The “done it” I was referring to was meaning he’s actually managed the behavior successfully for an entire season, sorry that was unclear and easily misinterpreted on my part. Carlsson has gotten through multiple people and gotten shots off, but they’re almost always too weak or he’s too off balance to make the shot worth taking. 95% of the time when he charges into 3 guys nothing effective comes out of it. As I said in another post - yet.

As far as the absolutes part of it, I’m not disagreeing. I’m pointing out that there are plenty of times that Carlsson and Zegras also pass up easy opportunities to go do fancy nonsense, and the boards do not call them out. Terry can be having a good game, do it once, and I guarantee there will be a raft off “OMG TERRY SUCKS IM SO SICK OF HIM”. He’s become a whipping boy. I also wasn’t saying that people weren’t open, I was pointing out that they’re not great at going to where they should be going to play off Terry dangling. Nobody on the team is good at that, I don’t think it’s a controversial statement. Vatrano sometimes is, and finally figured out that Zegras would just Chuck pucks to the crease so go there or it would just be a repeated turnover. Other than that, it’s hit or miss, there will be some shifts or periods where they look competent, but it’s pretty rare to get close to a full game of it.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Didn't Terry recently become a Father ? I think that combined with the Ducks being a rebuilding team he wasn't gonna be able to give 100%, its not like this team had a chance at making the playoffs.
He probably doesn't get much sleep with the kid crying at night.

I think Terry will return to form next season.

 

[Trojans86]

Judging by the end of the year I would like us to line up similar to this.

Gauthier Carlsson Killorn
McTavish Zegras Colangelo
Vatrano Strome Terry
Nesterenko Lunderstrom Leason

Fowler Luneau
Minty Gudas
Zellweger Lindstrom
LaCombe

Dostal

I like that. Let terry earn his way up as a team player