2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[usahockey22flyers]

I don't think it's immature to defend yourself against an organized smear campaign that has encouraged heavy levels of personal harassment against him. I think that's smart, actually, and considering what he's put up with he's definitely carrying himself better than the Flyers who have been totally unhinged and unprofessional.

And I could say, how about not wanting to talk to your rights holder after all the gushing and glowing he did about the org. He grew up watching hockey, he knows who Patrick Sharp is.

That’s not unprofessional?

I really don’t care that he didn’t want to play here for whatever reason, but have the decency to talk to Sharp and LeClair.

 

[Lord Defect]

So having Heiskanen or Makar instead of Patrick right now wouldn't be a game changer?

Having Werenski, Rantanen, Barzal, or Connor instead of Provorov wouldn't be a game changer right now?

Having K'Andre Miller instead of Jay O'Brien wouldn't be a game changer right now?

Having Jason Robertson instead of Morgan Frost and Isaac Ratcliffe, both of whom Hexy traded to get while leaving Robertson on the board, wouldn't be a game changer right now?

These repercussions show up many years down the road.

The Flyers blew wayyyyyy too many opportunities under Hextall, and they are paying for it now.

Having Patrick not get hurt would have been a game changer

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

And I could say, how about not wanting to talk to your rights holder after all the gushing and glowing he did about the org. He grew up watching hockey, he knows who Patrick Sharp is.

That’s not unprofessional?

I really don’t care that he didn’t want to play here for whatever reason, but have the decency to talk to Sharp and LeClair.

Shouldn’t the Flyers have the decency to not try to show up at a teenage kids “doorstep” (aka locker room) when they already know his intentions? He owed the Flyers nothing.

Hell, Gauthier may have had something to do that night when they randomly showed up and expected to meet with him.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Having Patrick not get hurt would have been a game changer

Patrick had a well-known long injury history, apparently even with the migraine stuff.

Plus there were character questions that had many teams moving him down their boards.

Even absent that, I remember scouts saying he would only be around the 7th overall pick in the previous draft, which he barely missed eligibility for.

Patrick was not good here even when he was "healthy."

He was a bust of a pick, when they could have had Heiskanen or Makar, both of whom their scouts recommended over Patrick. But Hexy wanted his Brandon Wheat King center.

Thanks, Hexy. One of many draft mistakes under his dictatorship.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

How about Gauthier not declare he was "born to be a Flyer" on draft night, and one year later refuse to attend rookie camp, his mind apparently already made up that he wasn't going to play for the organization.

Then he refuses to talk to LeClair and Sharp at the WJCs, and refuses to talk to Briere until he has his agent formally request a trade.

The kid is an entitled d-bag. A diva. You could see he was an arrogant blowhard from his interviews on draft night and in segments from his first and only rookie camp.

I was willing to overlook not liking his personality if he was going to be a 30 or 40 goal scorer, but it was even worse than I thought.

This kid brought everything on himself. Even last night, he blamed the media and said he'll always do what's best for "me" (not his "team," notably).

But sure, he's faultless and it's all the organization's fault.

 

[Magua]

Nothing says arrogance like surprise sending a “Team Consultant” — who wasn’t even with the team when Gauthier was drafted — to talk to a prospect with a major grievance who ended communications. You handle that shit through Briere and the agent. They just think their brand is that strong.

I’ve always said that the reason the Flyers’ jorts skyrocketed off during Gauthier’s predraft interview is the same reason why he left. Fletcher/Flahr liked his arrogance. Add in Bob Murray’s pride, and it was a perfect ending for a collectively unlikeable group.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

How about Gauthier not declare he was "born to be a Flyer" on draft night, and one year later refuse to attend rookie camp, his mind apparently already made up that he wasn't going to play for the organization.

Then he refuses to talk to LeClair and Sharp at the WJCs, and refuses to talk to Briere until he has his agent formally request a trade.

The kid is an entitled d-bag. A diva. You could see he was an arrogant blowhard from his interviews on draft night and in segments from his first and only rookie camp.

I was willing to overlook not liking his personality if he was going to be a 30 or 40 goal scorer, but it was even worse than I thought.

This kid brought everything on himself. Even last night, he blamed the media and said he'll always do what's best for "me" (not his "team," notably).

But sure, he's faultless and it's all the organization's fault.

Yep, Flyers are blameless here. That’s why they’re in such a good spot.

P.S. He didn’t talk to LeClair and Sharp when they showed up after a game at BC along with other timeline mistakes in your post.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Shouldn’t the Flyers have the decency to not try to show up at a teenage kids “doorstep” (aka locker room) when they already know his intentions? He owed the Flyers nothing.

Hell, Gauthier may have had something to do that night when they randomly showed up and expected to meet with him.

If he didn't want to actually be here - he should have said something in.... 2022!!!! The Flyers actually defended him by not leaking this in case he changed his mind. I don't respect how he handled it.

I think we have a different sense of what is owed to our employer, and that's fine too. I just personally disagree that he owed the Flyers "nothing" - considering what was said publicly by Gauthier at that point in time. "Born to be a Flyer" "What a night!". It's entitlement, it's hurt feelings - and in return guess what the Flyers did...they got emotional and dumb with hurt feelings. Aka your media blitz in January 2024.

Flyers handled this bad, but I am not letting Cutter off the hook either, just because the Flyers have sucked for a decade.

If this was really ELC based - Danny Briere - someone I would consider a "rational actor" and I believe in "rational actors theory" - would have made this right if given the chance - for the person he considered a "foundational pillar" of the franchise.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yep, Flyers are blameless here. That’s why they’re in such a good spot.

P.S. He didn’t talk to LeClair and Sharp when they showed up after a game at BC along with other timeline mistakes in your post.

Whatever it was. He refused to talk to Jones and Briere at the WJCs. Refused to talk to LeClair and Sharp at BC.

Did he not refuse to attend rookie camp the summer after he was drafted? He attended one rookie camp, right after he was drafted. That was it. It was the next one he refused to attend.

So he had already made up his mind he wasn't playing for the organization sometime in the first year after he was drafted and said he was "born to be a Flyer."

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

If he didn't want to actually be here - he should have said something in.... 2022!!!! The Flyers actually defended him by not leaking this in case he changed his mind. I don't respect how he handled it.

I think we have a different sense of what is owed to our employer, and that's fine too. I just personally disagree that he owed the Flyers "nothing" - considering what was said publicly by Gauthier at that point in time. "Born to be a Flyer" "What a night!". It's entitlement, it's hurt feelings - and in return guess what the Flyers did...they got emotional and dumb with hurt feelings. Aka your media blitz in January 2024.

Flyers handled this bad, but I am not letting Cutter off the hook either, just because the Flyers have sucked for a decade.

If this was really ELC based - Danny Briere - someone I would consider a "rational actor" and I believe in "rational actors theory" - would have made this right if given the chance - for the person he considered a "foundational pillar" of the franchise.

He was never employed by the Flyers. That’s the whole thing. That’s why he owes them nothing.

He wanted to be a Flyer in 2022 when he was drafted. The whole situation soured at some point seemingly during the period where the turnover in the front office occurred. It’s really that simple.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

He was never employed by the Flyers. That’s the whole thing. That’s why he owes them nothing.

He wanted to be a Flyer in 2022 when he was drafted. The whole situation soured at some point seemingly during the period where the turnover in the front office occurred. It’s really that simple.

Alright lol - we're not gonna see eye to eye here but thats cool

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

There were reasons on the Flyers end not to leak he wanted out earlier. So I wouldn’t say they 100% did so out of courtesy to Gauthier.

 

[Tripod]

Reminder, all this verbiage from a guy who STILL believes Fletch is a good GM.

 

[deadhead]

Teams work these things out, there are ways, bonuses, overpay on an early two year deal, etc.
The fact they didn't even try to negotiate tells you it was a done deal for whatever reason (and he's never told what that reason is).

Nor does it matter, Gauthier may turn out to be a pretty good goal scoring LW, but that isn't a big need on this team with Tippett, Foerster, Farabee and Cates eventually moving over. Scoring wings are the easiest position to fill in the first round. Had he actually been a good center prospect, it would sting a lot more.

And we'll see what Drysdale becomes, and that 2nd rd pick has real value. So it's not the end of the world for the Flyers, nor is it some disaster that will set them back.

Now how did Carolina lose at home to Anaheim coming off a back to back. That's embarrassing!

 

[Beef Invictus]

And I could say, how about not wanting to talk to your rights holder after all the gushing and glowing he did about the org. He grew up watching hockey, he knows who Patrick Sharp is.

That’s not unprofessional?

I really don’t care that he didn’t want to play here for whatever reason, but have the decency to talk to Sharp and LeClair.

No. It is not. They screwed him over. As a dumpster fire team that has just hired the most hated coach in the league, known for damaging offensive production and thus player earning potential, why does he owe them anything? He doesn't. Why should he give them more opportunities to f*** him over?

This team is a wreck that treats a ton of players horribly. They have put themselves in a position to get no benefit of the doubt or trust from any player.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Whatever it was. He refused to talk to Jones and Briere at the WJCs. Refused to talk to LeClair and Sharp at BC.

Did he not refuse to attend rookie camp the summer after he was drafted? He attended one rookie camp, right after he was drafted. That was it. It was the next one he refused to attend.

So he had already made up his mind he wasn't playing for the organization sometime in the first year after he was drafted and said he was "born to be a Flyer."

Correct, he refused to talk to Jones and Briere at the WJC's (December of '23/January of '24) and LeClair and Sharp at BC (November of '23).

You are also correct that he attended one rookie camp which was the summer that he was drafted (July of '22). He did refuse to attend the next rookie camp (July of '23).

He informed the Flyers that he did not want to sign with them after the WHC in May of '23 which lines up with the reported idea that he expected to be signed in March when his season concluded which was when there was turnover in the Flyers' front office.

It's a pretty simple timeline.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

So having Heiskanen or Makar instead of Patrick right now wouldn't be a game changer?

Having Werenski, Rantanen, Barzal, or Connor instead of Provorov wouldn't be a game changer right now?

Having K'Andre Miller instead of Jay O'Brien wouldn't be a game changer right now?

Having Jason Robertson instead of Morgan Frost and Isaac Ratcliffe, both of whom Hexy traded to get while leaving Robertson on the board, wouldn't be a game changer right now?

These repercussions show up many years down the road.

The Flyers blew wayyyyyy too many opportunities under Hextall, and they are paying for it now.

You can do this in any draft for any team, especially after the first few picks. It is an exercise on futility to do a post-mortem after any draft years down the road.

As for a game changer, the Flyers have one of the best young players in hockey in Michkov and it's incredibly obvious that he alone isn't going to elevate the franchise a perennial playoff contender. So, yeah, great to have Makar or Heiskanen, but what else would the Flyers have to show for the last 8 years?

The Flyers have blown draft day opportunities every year since the Lindros trade (and probably farther back, but I wasn't paying attention before then). You have a bizarre fixation on Hextall when Flyers management has shit the bed for decades. They're all complicit, they all suck, and 2017 is only unique because they fluked a lottery win to a #2 pick and drafted a guy who busted...

Yet you still have a mocking signature line in your profile because you don't have the same criticsm for another all time loser in Chuck Fletcher.

The Flyers are in their worst ever era with no end in sight, but we're litigating a decision from a draft made by a guy from three management groups ago. There's enough to criticize about the current regime that we don't need to waste energy on the guy running the team before my kid was born.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

No. It is not. They screwed him over.

If the Flyers really wanted to screw him over, they would have let him rot in college for 2 more years. I don’t think the NIL money is getting him to 900k annually in Boston

In a sense the Flyers controlled his destiny, at the time they held his rights. He could and honestly should have been told no, go back to school. But the Flyers actually bailed him out

 

[Beef Invictus]

If he didn't want to actually be here - he should have said something in.... 2022!!!! The Flyers actually defended him by not leaking this in case he changed his mind. I don't respect how he handled it.

I think we have a different sense of what is owed to our employer, and that's fine too. I just personally disagree that he owed the Flyers "nothing" - considering what was said publicly by Gauthier at that point in time. "Born to be a Flyer" "What a night!". It's entitlement, it's hurt feelings - and in return guess what the Flyers did...they got emotional and dumb with hurt feelings. Aka your media blitz in January 2024.

Flyers handled this bad, but I am not letting Cutter off the hook either, just because the Flyers have sucked for a decade.

If this was really ELC based - Danny Briere - someone I would consider a "rational actor" and I believe in "rational actors theory" - would have made this right if given the chance - for the person he considered a "foundational pillar" of the franchise.

He was probably fine with being there in 22. The. The Flyers f***ed him over and he stopped being fine. That's natural and normal.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

He was probably fine with being there in 22. The. The Flyers f***ed him over and he stopped being fine. That's natural and normal.

The Flyers would have done anything to make it up to him… financially, the only argument Cutter has, it’s really that simple. Flyers - right or wrong, never let anyone leave. They would have extended him to a price tag that would have been an overpay at the first possible moment.

Saying the Flyers don’t care of their own would simply be untrue.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If the Flyers really wanted to screw him over, they would have let him rot in college for 2 more years. I don’t think the NIL money is getting him to 900k annually in Boston

In a sense the Flyers controlled his destiny, at the time they held his rights. He could and honestly should have been told no, go back to school. But the Flyers actually bailed him out

Yes I've made it clear I think the Flyers botched the situation from every single possible angle. It's intensely stupid to screw the kid over, then give in and give him what he wants for minimal return, and then make yourself look anti-player for demonizing him. Full loss in every respect

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Flyers would have done anything to make it up to him… financially, the only argument Cutter has, it’s really that simple. Flyers - right or wrong, never let anyone leave. They would have extended him to a price tag that would have been an overpay at the first possible moment.

Saying the Flyers don’t care of their own would simply be untrue.

I strongly doubt that. This team pukes down their own chest whenever a player asserts themselves. Thats been a vital team value since McCrimmon

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

Hextall was a control-freak megalomaniac dictator

Not flaming at all, I love your new bit and hope you remain committed!

 

[pit]

I'd bet Briere spends more time on Phantom issues than calling around for trades.

Make that capital P a lower case p and I might agree.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yes I've made it clear I think the Flyers botched the situation from every single possible angle. It's intensely stupid to screw the kid over, then give in and give him what he wants for minimal return, and then make yourself look anti-player for demonizing him. Full loss in every respect

How did the Flyers screw Cutter over?

He refuses to say what happened. The Flyers say they don't know what happened.

They tried mending bridges with him both at the WJC, with Briere and Jones, and at BC with LeClair and Sharp, and he refused to meet with anyone.

The Cutter camp essentially ghosted the Flyers for months, until the agent officially requested a Zoom meeting after the World Championships in May '23, which Briere thought would be about changing his mind and accepting a contract offer, but instead was about officially demanding a trade.

There's no evidence the Flyers botched this. All we've got is speculation because the Cutter camp won't explain.

The leading guess is that Cutter wanted to turn pro and burn a year off his entry level contract after his freshman season ended in March 2022, and the Flyers weren't willing to gift him an NHL spot at age 19 as a college freshman, and didn't want additional cap penalties in the process. They wanted to sign him after the NHL season. And he got butthurt and froze out the organization thereafter. But again, it's speculation. Regardless, you can't let a college freshman run the asylum. He was a good prospect, but we aren't talking Michkov here.