2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[Ghosts Beer]

Hextall was a control freak, if he was a competent control freak, he's have been tolerated.

My point exactly.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Sounds oddly familiar…

Wonder if he realizes he described Torts

 

[MJL66]

Hextall was a control freak, if he was a competent control freak, he's have been tolerated.
But while his first two drafts were solid, from 2016 to 2018 he fell way short.

What made it worse was not going all the way after the 2015 TDL, by riding Mason in 2015-16 to the playoffs, he raised expectations only to have them dashed twice. Had he torn down the Flyers, he could have bought a few years to rebuild since he had a mandate from Snider. Instead, he did nothing for two years, fooled by a hot goalie into thinking they were close to being competitive.

It took Hextall 2-3 years just to clear up the cap mess and build the prospect base back up. Unless it resulted in almost immediate success, going opposite of the "Flyer way" was never going to be tolerated. This organization would've never permitted a complete tear down. They wouldn't allow it then and they wouldn't allow it now.

 

[freakydallas13]

The people who think Hextall and Holmgren are the reasons this team is where it is and are trying to absolve Clarke, Lombardi, Briere, Fletcher, etc. would be great propaganda experts in a secret police unit.

"It's not the people in charge now! The old regime is who we need to be mad at! Everything is their fault!"

It might be funny if it weren't pathetic and blatantly boot-kissing of them.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

We are playing next ten games against east coast teams that are above us in the standings. So those regulation wins would come in handy if we ought to make the playoffs. This is the real test and we are both healthy and coming off a big win.

 

[Curufinwe]

The people who think Hextall and Holmgren are the reasons this team is where it is and are trying to absolve Clarke, Lombardi, Briere, Fletcher, etc. would be great propaganda experts in a secret police unit.

"It's not the people in charge now! The old regime is who we need to be mad at! Everything is their fault!"

It might be funny if it weren't pathetic and blatantly boot-kissing of them.

I don’t think GMs who left 6+ years ago get discussed nearly as much on the forums of other teams. Six years is an eternity in hockey.

 

[FlyerNutter]

The people who think Hextall and Holmgren are the reasons this team is where it is and are trying to absolve Clarke, Lombardi, Briere, Fletcher, etc. would be great propaganda experts in a secret police unit.

"It's not the people in charge now! The old regime is who we need to be mad at! Everything is their fault!"

It might be funny if it weren't pathetic and blatantly boot-kissing of them.

It’s clear whoever won the power struggle.

They remain, along with all their little offspring.

Fire a Lombardi, fire Brent, or Brown outright instead of just giving him a different title.

Then talk about doing things differently.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

It took Hextall 2-3 years just to clear up the cap mess and build the prospect base back up. Unless it resulted in almost immediate success, going opposite of the "Flyer way" was never going to be tolerated. This organization would've never permitted a complete tear down. They wouldn't allow it then and they wouldn't allow it now.

Well, let's see. Hextall's entire strategy was based on the draft.

Got lucky with the lottery to pick 2nd, whiffed on Patrick over Heiskanen and Makar.

Whiffed on Provorov with the 7th overall pick in a great draft over guys like Werenski, Rantanen, Barzal, Connor, even Meier.

Traded a 25 yr old Brayden Schenn and took on the albatross Lehtera contract because he coveted Morgan F'ing Frost at 27 overall, and then lucked out that the other 1st he got, whcih was expected to be another mid-to-late 20s pick, ended up 14th overall because the Blues had an unexpectedly poor season. That 14th pick was Farabee, who sure has been no Brayden Schenn.

At 19 overall in the Farabee draft, they go off the board to take Jay O'Brien, who's so bad he can't even get a pro contract, with K'Andre Miller sitting there.

In 2016 burns a 1st on German Rubtsov, who can't play in the NHL.

In 2017 trades up in the 2nd rd to take Isaac Ratcliffe, who can't play in the NHL, with Jason Robertson sitting on the board. So he made trades for Frost and Ratcliffe, passing on Robertson twice.

2nd rd picks of Hextall's tenure aside from Carter Hart:

Aube-Kubel (on his 5th team in 4 years, waived multiple times, spent time in the AHL last yr, currently 2 pts in 18 games for BUF);

Pascal Laberge (in the ECHL)

Wade Allison (in Russia)

Isaac Ratcliffe (already mentioned)

Adam Ginning (AHLer)

I guess as far as picks from the 3rd through 7th rounds, of which he had 28 in his 5 drafts, those currently in the NHL are:

Noah Cates -- that's a hit

Sam Ersson -- good pick, probably an NHL backup

Ivan Fedotov -- hasn't shown NHL quality in a brief stint at age 28

Olle Lycksell -- mostly an AHLer

Then there's Oskar Lindblom, who couldn't cut it in the AHL last year and is now in Sweden; hard to judge because he was never the same after cancer.

Then there's the rumor he overruled his scouts to take Sanheim over Pastrnak. No idea if true. Sanheim was a fine pick at 17, but Pastrnak sure would've been a game changer.

In sum, Hextall had 42 draft picks in his 5 drafts.

Including 2nd overall, 7th overall, 14 overall, 17 overall, 19 overall, 22 overall, 24 overall, 27 overall, 35 overall, 36 overall, 48 overall, 48 overall again, 50 overall, 52 overall.

For a man whose strategy relied on the draft, Hextall failed. Hitting on Konecny and Hart out of 14 top 52 picks and 42 picks overall doesn't salvage all of the misses.

 

[Lord Defect]

Well, let's see. Hextall's entire strategy was based on the draft.

Got lucky with the lottery to pick 2nd, whiffed on Patrick over Heiskanen and Makar.

Whiffed on Provorov with the 7th overall pick in a great draft over guys like Werenski, Rantanen, Barzal, Connor, even Meier.

Traded a 25 yr old Brayden Schenn and took on the albatross Lehtera contract because he coveted Morgan F'ing Frost at 27 overall, and then lucked out that the other 1st he got, whcih was expected to be another mid-to-late 20s pick, ended up 14th overall because the Blues had an unexpectedly poor season. That 14th pick was Farabee, who sure has been no Brayden Schenn.

At 19 overall in the Farabee draft, they go off the board to take Jay O'Brien, who's so bad he can't even get a pro contract, with K'Andre Miller sitting there.

In 2016 burns a 1st on German Rubtsov, who can't play in the NHL.

In 2017 trades up in the 2nd rd to take Isaac Ratcliffe, who can't play in the NHL, with Jason Robertson sitting on the board. So he made trades for Frost and Ratcliffe, passing on Robertson twice.

2nd rd picks of Hextall's tenure aside from Carter Hart:

Aube-Kubel (on his 5th team in 4 years, waived multiple times, spent time in the AHL last yr, currently 2 pts in 18 games for BUF);

Pascal Laberge (in the ECHL)

Wade Allison (in Russia)

Isaac Ratcliffe (already mentioned)

Adam Ginning (AHLer)

I guess as far as picks from the 3rd through 7th rounds, of which he had 28 in his 5 drafts, those currently in the NHL are:

Noah Cates -- that's a hit

Sam Ersson -- good pick, probably an NHL backup

Ivan Fedotov -- hasn't shown NHL quality in a brief stint at age 28

Olle Lycksell -- mostly an AHLer

Then there's Oskar Lindblom, who couldn't cut it in the AHL last year and is now in Sweden; hard to judge because he was never the same after cancer.

Then there's the rumor he overruled his scouts to take Sanheim over Pastrnak. No idea if true. Sanheim was a fine pick at 17, but Pastrnak sure would've been a game changer.

In sum, Hextall had 42 draft picks in his 5 drafts.

Including 2nd overall, 7th overall, 14 overall, 17 overall, 19 overall, 22 overall, 24 overall, 27 overall, 35 overall, 36 overall, 48 overall, 48 overall again, 50 overall, 52 overall.

For a man whose strategy relied on the draft, Hextall failed. Hitting on Konecny and Hart out of 14 top 52 picks and 42 picks overall doesn't salvage all of the misses.

So you’re saying our scouts are bad.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So you’re saying our scouts are bad.

Nope. When it's well-established that Hextall was a control-freak megalomaniac dictator who overruled his scouts' recommendations, and when he's ultimately responsible for finalizing each pick, it falls on him. And maybe Chris Pryor, also, his hand-picked right-hand man and head of amateur scouting, who was also terrible as Hexy's right-hand-man in Pittsburgh.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Nope. When it's well-established that Hextall was a control-freak megalomaniac dictator who overruled his scouts' recommendations, and when he's ultimately responsible for finalizing each pick, it falls on him.

GB man, that’s not possible though you know that.

Let’s even say he overruled on Patrick. The rest of the picks he just ignored everyone?

Fletcher did too? Or are we excited by some middle six forwards.

 

[renberg]

So you’re saying our scouts are bad.

The scouts may be off but it doesn’t make any difference if the powers that be choose to ignore the reports and go off of the reservation to make the choice that they want.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

GB man, that’s not possible though you know that.

Let’s even say he overruled on Patrick. The rest of the picks he just ignored everyone?

Fletcher did too? Or are we excited by some middle six forwards.

Regardless, the GM is ultimately responsible for each pick.

Now, when reports come out that a GM overruled his scouts' recommendations, and the GM's overruling flopped whereas the scouts' recommendations excelled, it looks extra bad.

But in the end, the GM is responsible for the draft, whether he overrules his scouts or follows his scouts.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Here's another one, albeit with no corroboration that I know of:

Incredible how this scouting staff is always right on very hard decisions and somehow their drafts are always falling flat. Seems impossible.

It's almost like the "trusted source" is lying.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

This team builds from the bottom down.

The Flyers are definitely a bottom of a franchise. Not kink shaming just saying more submissive then dominant

 

[Beef Invictus]

I was talking about the Flyers though, I was talking about 42 GP 5 G and him constantly saying stuff any person with self awareness would regret after the fact.

I was all in on Cutter the draft pick, watched every shift in a US jersey and most in college. It just sucks to see him be sort of a shell of himself. I'm a softie. I hate how this whole thing was handled, but I hope Jamie and Cutter both do well and it's all irrelevant later.

The only reason he's saying anything is because an embarrassed Flyers organization has spent an incredible amount of time obsessed with him

 

[usahockey22flyers]

The only reason he's saying anything is because an embarrassed Flyers organization has spent an incredible amount of time obsessed with him

He’s acted incredibly immature too, they both are wrong!

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Nolan Patrick was drafted eight calendar years ago. What are we talking about?

The only guys on the roster from that draft year are Couts, TK, Sanheim, and Laughton.

Ron Hextall sucks, but his tenure was almost a full hockey generation ago.

Just stop.

 

[kudymen]

I wonder which guy from my ignore list is fueling this thread.. who might that be. Such mystery

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Nolan Patrick was drafted eight calendar years ago. What are we talking about?

The only guys on the roster from that draft year are Couts, TK, Sanheim, and Laughton.

Ron Hextall sucks, but his tenure was almost a full hockey generation ago.

Just stop.

So having Heiskanen or Makar instead of Patrick right now wouldn't be a game changer?

Having Werenski, Rantanen, Barzal, or Connor instead of Provorov wouldn't be a game changer right now?

Having K'Andre Miller instead of Jay O'Brien wouldn't be a game changer right now?

Having Jason Robertson instead of Morgan Frost and Isaac Ratcliffe, both of whom Hexy traded to get while leaving Robertson on the board, wouldn't be a game changer right now?

These repercussions show up many years down the road.

The Flyers blew wayyyyyy too many opportunities under Hextall, and they are paying for it now.

 

[ponder719]

The people who think Hextall and Holmgren are the reasons this team is where it is and are trying to absolve Clarke, Lombardi, Briere, Fletcher, etc. would be great propaganda experts in a secret police unit.

"It's not the people in charge now! The old regime is who we need to be mad at! Everything is their fault!"

It might be funny if it weren't pathetic and blatantly boot-kissing of them.

That's the secret: it's all of them. It always has been. Snider begat Clarke begat Holmgren begat Hextall begat Fletcher begat Brière, and when they get tired of him, it'll be Flahr or Lombardi or Patrick Sharp or some other knobhead cut from the same cloth, incapable of providing any new perspective, because they are all, every last one, convinced they're right, and if only they have the right person who thinks like them speaking for them, suddenly this time it'll all work out.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The people who think Hextall and Holmgren are the reasons this team is where it is and are trying to absolve Clarke, Lombardi, Briere, Fletcher, etc. would be great propaganda experts in a secret police unit.

"It's not the people in charge now! The old regime is who we need to be mad at! Everything is their fault!"

It might be funny if it weren't pathetic and blatantly boot-kissing of them.

It's hilarious to see Clarke's influence scoffed at when what, 95% of the staff is either directly connected to him/known by him, or is one degree of separation off. They only hire his guys or the close associates of his closest cronies. That's not a coincidence.

That and they fired a GM they loved just because he didn't let Clarke play enough. We know they loved him because they kept just about everything he did. They're currently using his "retool" plan and his player development changes have only been dug in deeper. Damned near the whole core of the team is his doing!

So it's also funny to hear about how Hextall was incompetent, considering all that. Says a lot bad about management now.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He’s acted incredibly immature too, they both are wrong!

I don't think it's immature to defend yourself against an organized smear campaign that has encouraged heavy levels of personal harassment against him. I think that's smart, actually, and considering what he's put up with he's definitely carrying himself better than the Flyers who have been totally unhinged and unprofessional.

 

[MJL66]

Hextall was a control freak, if he was a competent control freak, he's have been tolerated.
But while his first two drafts were solid, from 2016 to 2018 he fell way short.

What made it worse was not going all the way after the 2015 TDL, by riding Mason in 2015-16 to the playoffs, he raised expectations only to have them dashed twice. Had he torn down the Flyers, he could have bought a few years to rebuild since he had a mandate from Snider. Instead, he did nothing for two years, fooled by a hot goalie into thinking they were close to being competitive.

Changing everything and not allowing access to the alumni, is not being a control freak. It had to be done that way. This organization wouldn't allow him to tear it completely down. They still won't allow it.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

That's the secret: it's all of them. It always has been. Snider begat Clarke begat Holmgren begat Hextall begat Fletcher begat Brière, and when they get tired of him, it'll be Flahr or Lombardi or Patrick Sharp or some other knobhead cut from the same cloth, incapable of providing any new perspective, because they are all, every last one, convinced they're right, and if only they have the right person who thinks like them speaking for them, suddenly this time it'll all work out.

they wont change because they dont want to change..

everyone who is brought in is hired because they are ok with not changing the #foundations...

Hextall was the closest to a outside voice. when it became clear he wanted to close the door on the #oldboisclub he was removed..