2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[usahockey22flyers]

He has to deal with Philadelphia once a year while he gets to live in Orange County (in theory). He’ll survive.

Anyone that goes out of their way to give him shit outside of him being in Philly is a scumbag.

This has nothing to do with Philadelphia and everything with him putting more limelight and pressure on himself with this whole fiasco. This was national news in two countries!

We obviously know he has confidence, ego, and entitlement… most hockey players do. But I can’t help but wonder if the kid would legit be better off without all of this circus in the background. It certainly did not propel him last night or in December.

He's got a long way to go, but the kid can't ever seem to say anything right in front of a mic without sounding arrogant. He's getting bad advice on how to handle himself.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

This has nothing to do with Philadelphia and everything with him putting more limelight and pressure on himself with this whole fiasco. This was national news in two countries!

We obviously know he has confidence, ego, and entitlement… most hockey players do. But I can’t help but wonder if the kid would legit be better off without all of this circus in the background. It certainly did not propel him last night or in December.

He's got a long way to go, but the kid can't ever seem to say anything right in front of a mic without sounding arrogant. He's getting bad advice on how to handle himself.

It has everything to do with Philadelphia though. They're the only ones that care. The only way this effects Cutter at this point is if his scorned ex-lover stalks him at every turn.

I don't disagree that the kid could say some things differently to not be so arrogant. Helllllooo, Clutch Gene, but what's done is done at this point. Philadelphia needs to get over it and not do weird things.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

It has everything to do with Philadelphia though. They're the only ones that care. The only way this effects Cutter at this point is if his scorned ex-lover stalks him at every turn.

I don't disagree that the kid could say some things differently to not be so arrogant. Helllllooo, Clutch Gene, but what's done is done at this point. Philadelphia needs to get over it and not do weird things.

I was talking about the Flyers though, I was talking about 42 GP 5 G and him constantly saying stuff any person with self awareness would regret after the fact.

I was all in on Cutter the draft pick, watched every shift in a US jersey and most in college. It just sucks to see him be sort of a shell of himself. I'm a softie. I hate how this whole thing was handled, but I hope Jamie and Cutter both do well and it's all irrelevant later.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This has nothing to do with Philadelphia and everything with him putting more limelight and pressure on himself with this whole fiasco. This was national news in two countries!

We obviously know he has confidence, ego, and entitlement… most hockey players do. But I can’t help but wonder if the kid would legit be better off without all of this circus in the background. It certainly did not propel him last night or in December.

He's got a long way to go, but the kid can't ever seem to say anything right in front of a mic without sounding arrogant. He's getting bad advice on how to handle himself.

Cutter brought this all on himself.

He sounded like an arrogant blowhard from his very first interviews at the draft, which was the first warning sign.

I had supported drafting him, and he went on to become an excellent prospect, but alarm bells immediately went off on draft day regarding his personality. A real turn-off.

 

[ellja3]

What's your opinion on PHI not going for Askarov, seeing this? I mean, yeah, we are far from win-now, but such goalies aren't available very often

 

[Ghosts Beer]

View attachment 960043

What's your opinion on PHI not going for Askarov, seeing this? I mean, yeah, we are far from win-now, but such goalies aren't available very often

Maybe they did, but didn't want to give up a 1st round pick considering his AHL stats to that point were nothing special?

Or maybe since they already had 3 goalies in Ersson, Fedotov, and Kolosov, they didn't expect their goaltending to be this bad? Or maybe Nashville didn't want to take one of Fedotov or Kolosov back? Especially considering Fedotov's contract and Kolosov's known demands to play in the NHL?

 

[FlyerNutter]

View attachment 960043

What's your opinion on PHI not going for Askarov, seeing this? I mean, yeah, we are far from win-now, but such goalies aren't available very often

Askarov you say

In all seriousness it was a huge miss imo. They have no idea what they have in goal. Will need above average tending to do anything if they willingly are setting themselves up to be bereft of high end talent.

Was a buddy for Matvei. Traded at a reasonable price, and young enough to fit the window.

What’s the point of dealing some of these vanilla guys for not prime spot picks, if you never put them into a package to actually chase (gasp) true talent.

Im just not sure what we are doing. Not getting prime draft slots. Not moving guys unless they basically want out, as Walker is the only one they "chose" to move. Not using picks to take a gamble on say a Sergachev.

Picking 12th year after year, and dreaming of cap money for FA. Even if I try to follow their strategy, they aren't doing shit when presented with viable options to bring in skill.

 

[ellja3]

Askarov you say

In all seriousness it was a huge miss imo. They have no idea what they have in goal. Will need above average tending to do anything if they willingly are setting themselves up to be bereft of high end talent.

Was a buddy for Matvei. Traded at a reasonable price, and young enough to fit the window.

What’s the point of dealing some of these vanilla guys for not prime spot picks, if you never put them into a package to actually chase (gasp) true talent.

Im just not sure what we are doing. Not getting prime draft slots. Not moving guys unless they basically want out, as Walker is the only one they "chose" to move. Not using picks to take a gamble on say a Sergachev.

Picking 12th year after year, and dreaming of cap money for FA. Even if I try to follow their strategy, they aren't doing shit when presented with viable options to bring in skill.

Yeah, not going for him makes no sense; sure, you have 3 goalies already, but you don't just find such Askarov deals lying on the street every day, what the HELL, man, take a risk here or there, this, as you said ''not sure what they are doing'', middle of the road 12th pick kind of approach will just keep us ranting here in this forum for another decade of mind-blowingly boring mediocrity.

Funny how in certain discussion boards (khem, Reddit) people argue that we shouldn't had gone for Askarov, because we might just have the next Askarov in our pipeline, yeah LOL, and maybe we DON'T what the hell is THAT argument... Especially because goalies are voodoo, but Askarov has already showed what kind of goalie he is.

SIGH

 

[FlyerNutter]

I'll throw something out regarding the whole Makar/Patrick/Heiskanen thing. Apparently now they wanted Pastrnak also?

The same scouting department that's drafted 3 guys of note since 2006 in Giroux/Coots/Michkov?

Nothing personal, but no way in hell do I believe that. The scouts suck ass. It's a huge reason why the organization finds itself in purgatory.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I’d be more interested in hearing scouts tell us what players they liked but flopped after the fact. All we ever hear is the successful ones that got away.

 

[ponder719]

I'll throw something out regarding the whole Makar/Patrick/Heiskanen thing. Apparently now they wanted Pastrnak also?

The same scouting department that's drafted 3 guys of note since 2006 in Giroux/Coots/Michkov?

Nothing personal, but no way in hell do I believe that. The scouts suck ass. It's a huge reason why the organization finds itself in purgatory.

The Flyers' amateur scouts are tremendous pro scouts.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I'll throw something out regarding the whole Makar/Patrick/Heiskanen thing. Apparently now they wanted Pastrnak also?

The same scouting department that's drafted 3 guys of note since 2006 in Giroux/Coots/Michkov?

Nothing personal, but no way in hell do I believe that. The scouts suck ass. It's a huge reason why the organization finds itself in purgatory.

Nutter I'll ask a common sense question. Say there was a top 3 scout who wanted Pasta and Makar. Now I think that is horse manure but let be Alice and drink me. Wouldn't the flyers organization be the biggest idiots not making that person gm instead of Briere?

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Cutter brought this all on himself.

He sounded like an arrogant blowhard from his very first interviews at the draft, which was the first warning sign.

I had supported drafting him, and he went on to become an excellent prospect, but alarm bells immediately went off on draft day regarding his personality. A real turn-off.

We don't know exactly what happened or what was specifically said - but I bet both parties wish it went down a different way.

 

[Curufinwe]

It is so funny watching Orange koolaid slurpers lose their minds because a player didnt want to play for a bottom feeding team that has constant turmoil in the front office. Their tiny brains genuinely can’t comprehend that anyone wouldn’t love to play for the Flyers. And they bizarrely believe that players are treated better here than anywhere else, even as management poisons the well about their own players whenever it suits them. Maybe they could ask Brayden Schenn what it’s like in St Louis. Seems like he’s quite enjoyed the change of scenery. And that’s just one of 20 other hockey towns that are at least as good to play in as Philly.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I'll throw something out regarding the whole Makar/Patrick/Heiskanen thing. Apparently now they wanted Pastrnak also?

The same scouting department that's drafted 3 guys of note since 2006 in Giroux/Coots/Michkov?

Nothing personal, but no way in hell do I believe that. The scouts suck ass. It's a huge reason why the organization finds itself in purgatory.

Yeah, I posted the Pastrnak thing on the last page, but somehow it disappeared.

Maybe Hextall overruling the scouts was the problem, not the scouts themselves.

We all know now that Hextall was a control-freak dictator.

Hextall overruled the scouts to take Patrick, who played for Hextall's alma mater, the Brandon Wheat Kings, and overruled the scouts to take Sanheim way ahead of projection, who is related to his family.

Things that make you go hmmm.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hextall overruled the scouts to take Jay O'Brien, as well. Hextall seemed fixated on him.

 

[ybnvs]

PROTIP: Different teams' scouts have different opinions and rankings,

You ALMOST get it.

 

[deadhead]

Nutter I'll ask a common sense question. Say there was a top 3 scout who wanted Pasta and Makar. Now I think that is horse manure but let be Alice and drink me. Wouldn't the flyers organization be the biggest idiots not making that person gm instead of Briere?

No. There's a reason Camillo had Briere take business courses.
Being a GM is a lot more than scouting.

A good scout may not even be a good manager of other scouts - so not only does it not qualify you to be a GM, it may not qualify you to be head of scouting.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Damn those scouts are good. Things must have improved since Hextall was fired.

 

[ponder719]

Nutter I'll ask a common sense question. Say there was a top 3 scout who wanted Pasta and Makar. Now I think that is horse manure but let be Alice and drink me. Wouldn't the flyers organization be the biggest idiots not making that person gm instead of Briere?

Talent evaluation is only one component of being a GM, however important that component is. The GM also needs to be able to facilitate trades, negotiate reasonable contracts, manage the cap, evaluate coaches and the development system, any number of other things I'm forgetting.

What you want is to hire a GM who recognizes that that's the guy to listen to when it comes to the talent evaluation part, and ignore the guys advocating for lesser prospects.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

No. There's a reason Camillo had Briere take business courses.
Being a GM is a lot more than scouting.

A good scout may not even be a good manager of other scouts - so not only does it not qualify you to be a GM, it may not qualify you to be head of scouting.

Right. While we’re on the subject, most of a GM’s time is taken up by the bottom of a roster, not the top. You know, those decisions you keep telling me don’t matter.

 

[deadhead]

View attachment 960043

What's your opinion on PHI not going for Askarov, seeing this? I mean, yeah, we are far from win-now, but such goalies aren't available very often

Askarov is not a sure thing, up until now he did nothing special, this season he raised his game in the AHL in a short sample. He cost the equivalent of two late 1st rd picks, a high price for a gamble.

And goalie should be the last issue addressed when rebuilding, a good goalie can cost you draft position without making you a contender.

Also, goalies can't be trusted. Pens thought they were set with Murray until he went south. Then they had Jarry, and he went south. Safety in numbers, I'd make keeping the pipeline full of young goaltenders an organizational priority.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Talent evaluation is only one component of being a GM, however important that component is. The GM also needs to be able to facilitate trades, negotiate reasonable contracts, manage the cap, evaluate coaches and the development system, any number of other things I'm forgetting.

What you want is to hire a GM who recognizes that that's the guy to listen to when it comes to the talent evaluation part, and ignore the guys advocating for lesser prospects.

The number one aspect this team needs is draft evaluation for the next 3 years. I would a million out a million take the person who could evaluate elite draft talent over signing JVR and Kevin Hayes.
Has this team negotiated contracts well over the last 15 years. Jody Shellly and 44 part 2 would agree and no one else.
Has this team evaluate coaches well the last 15 years? Sure looks like at f to me.
Has this team traded well for the last 15 years? Trading picks for bleh rh d-men over and over and over. Bold strategy there Cotton.

The point is moot as they was no scout that wanted Pasta and Makar. Its all Clarkie bs to cover the utter ineptness of Flusher and blame Hexy. The truth is there is so much c*** all over the place that everyone deserves blame. Its a giant S*** sandwich and no hot sauce is available to cover up the taste. Not even Clarkie's false teeth.

 

[deadhead]

Right. While we’re on the subject, most of a GM’s time is taken up by the bottom of a roster, not the top. You know, those decisions you keep telling me don’t matter.

I'd go deeper than "bottom of the roster," and call it organizational depth.
I'd bet Briere spends more time on Phantom issues than calling around for trades.

Reason is your AHL franchise is a delicate balance, you want a good environment for player development (your top guys won't spend much time there, but the second tier guys like Grans might be there for 2-3 years), but also to stash AHL plus types who provide injury depth, and it's a business that you don't want to be a financial black hole. ECHL less so b/c few even make it to the AHL, Gaucher is a notable exception.

I think that's why drafting after the 3rd rd is as much about organization as upside, scouting is better these days so there are few hidden gems out there, more question marks that might develop (injury, size, bad situation in CHL/college, etc). So fans might deride such choices, but guys with AHL plus potential who can both provide depth and a good environment for "real" prospects have value.

Think of Barkey, he'll probably need a year or two in the AHL to get stronger and adjust to professional hockey - you want competent centers for him, whether guys you draft or AHL plus guys (Richard) you sign.

One reason I think they were reluctant to trade Laughton in the past was the centers in LHV were so bad they had nightmares of injury call-ups being overwhelmed, and taking young wingers down with them. At least with Abols and Gaucher, they have the potential of being just below replacement at the NHL level.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think that's why drafting after the 3rd rd is as much about organization as upside, scouting is better these days so there are few hidden gems out there, more question marks that might develop (injury, size, bad situation in CHL/college, etc). So fans might deride such choices, but guys with AHL plus potential who can both provide depth and a good environment for "real" prospects have value.

Think of Barkey, he'll probably need a year or two in the AHL to get stronger and adjust to professional hockey - you want competent centers for him, whether guys you draft or AHL plus guys (Richard) you sign.

One reason I think they were reluctant to trade Laughton in the past was the centers in LHV were so bad they had nightmares of injury call-ups being overwhelmed, and taking young wingers down with them. At least with Abols and Gaucher, they have the potential of being just below replacement at the NHL level.

I would just like it on the record that my Like is not for this part. But the other half deserved it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The number one aspect this team needs is draft evaluation for the next 3 years. I would a million out a million take the person who could evaluate elite draft talent over signing JVR and Kevin Hayes.
Has this team negotiated contracts well over the last 15 years. Jody Shellly and 44 part 2 would agree and no one else.
Has this team evaluate coaches well the last 15 years? Sure looks like at f to me.
Has this team traded well for the last 15 years? Trading picks for bleh rh d-men over and over and over. Bold strategy there Cotton.

The point is moot as they was no scout that wanted Pasta and Makar. Its all Clarkie bs to cover the utter ineptness of Flusher and blame Hexy. The truth is there is so much c*** all over the place that everyone deserves blame. Its a giant S*** sandwich and no hot sauce is available to cover up the taste. Not even Clarkie's false teeth.

We get it. You don't like Bob Clarke, so you want to act like these reports of Hextall overruling his scouts to take Patrick over Heiskanen or Makar, and overruling his scouts to take Sanheim over Pastrnak, are all a big conspiracy concocted by big bad Bob Clarke.

Except the reports about the scouts not wanting Patrick have been numerous. They have been supported by league scouts. It was supposedly a national scout who mentioned the Pastrnak/Sanheim thing.

Think about it.

If you're on a scouting staff that recommends Heiskanen and Makar over Patrick, and get overruled by the GM to take Patrick, who flops while Heiskanen and Makar excel, wouldn't you be pissed and probably leak the story? I would.

Same with Pastrnak and Sanheim. If you're a scout on a staff that recommends Pastrnak, and you get overruled by your GM, and Pastrnak becomes a world class scorer, wouldn't you be pissed and probably leak the story? I would.