2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[Beef Invictus]

Thanks. I should have paused immediately after the trade talk, but ended up hearing Briere stroke himself off for having Staal, Johnson, Hathaway and Deslauriers working resurrecting the team's culture.

But I was told he doesn't value them for nonsense reasons

 

[dragonoffrost]

But I was told he doesn't value them for nonsense reasons

I thought the new word for them was meaningless....

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Thanks. I should have paused immediately after the trade talk, but ended up hearing Briere stroke himself off for having Staal, Johnson, Hathaway and Deslauriers working resurrecting the team's culture.

not one person here could have called that he was selected becuz he bows to the oldboisclub..

 

[deadhead]

It's like this we hear at least once per season. "We wanted a veteran with experience for our playoff run. " But how do you become a veteran with experience for playoff runs??

Be good enough to break into the lineup, say like Andrae has?

Rookies this year, Michkov, Andrae, Kolosov, Fedotov.
2nd year, Foerster, Brink, Zamula, Ersson

The oldest players in the top 20 (play every day)
Hathaway (33), Couts (32), Seeler (31), Laughton (30), Risto (30)
We'll see how many are left by May. Risto and Laughton already mentioned in trade talks.

The only other players older than 25
Sanheim (28), Fedotov (28), TK (27), Poehling (26)

 

[dragonoffrost]

Be good enough to break into the lineup, say like Andrae has?

Rookies this year, Michkov, Andrae, Kolosov, Fedotov.
2nd year, Foerster, Brink, Zamula, Ersson

The oldest players in the top 20 (play every day)
Hathaway (33), Couts (32), Seeler (31), Laughton (30), Risto (30)
We'll see how many are left by May. Risto and Laughton already mentioned in trade talks.

The only other players older than 25
Sanheim (28), Fedotov (28), TK (27), Poehling (26)

Other than Fedotov the bolded all have over 6 years of NHL experience aka Veterans.

 

[BernieParent]

Damn that ends up being at least 17 phone calls!

That's the brilliance of Briere's tactics. He doesn't make the phone calls; others do. And if they don't want to pay the Flyers' sky-high prices, then too bad. There is a bias for inaction.

 

[deadhead]

Other than Fedotov the bolded all have over 6 years of NHL experience aka Veterans.

And TK and Sanheim are going to be part of the veteran core going forward.
Poehling not so sure, depends on the development of young centers behind him.

 

[BernieParent]

That's because it's triflingly easy to look at a player who may have overcooked in the AHL and claim it was because they never had the talent to begin with. One can always concoct a number of explanations for why someone or something fails, and simply adopt the one that best suits their preferred narrative.

A coach's job is to identify those players who have regressed because they weren't ready, and help them identify and overcome those deficiencies. Good teams do that, bad teams don't.

Some coaches just know these things. They don't need video or even live on-ice examples. They just know. Like Tortorella and Hartnell; he didn't let Hartnell's actual stats get in the way of knowing he was bad.

 

[Sombastate]

Be good enough to break into the lineup, say like Andrae has?

Rookies this year, Michkov, Andrae, Kolosov, Fedotov.
2nd year, Foerster, Brink, Zamula, Ersson

The oldest players in the top 20 (play every day)
Hathaway (33), Couts (32), Seeler (31), Laughton (30), Risto (30)
We'll see how many are left by May. Risto and Laughton already mentioned in trade talks.

The only other players older than 25
Sanheim (28), Fedotov (28), TK (27), Poehling (26)

But you said this last year. And we ended up extending Seeler, extending Hathaway, not trading Laughton, signing Johnson to another year, keeping Laughton forever more.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Some coaches just know these things. They don't need video or even live on-ice examples. They just know. Like Tortorella and Hartnell; he didn't let Hartnell's actual stats get in the way of knowing he was bad.

#facts..

the best part is he stayed to his wrong opinion even after..

 

[Larry44]

But you said this last year. And we ended up extending Seeler, extending Hathaway, not trading Laughton, signing Johnson to another year, keeping Laughton forever more.

Good grief, we're stuck with Seeler for a couple years, but they need to deal Risto, Laughton, Hathaway and Johnson if they can, at the TDL. No excuse for crappy vets. They have enough leadership, what they need is talent.

 

[Cody Webster]

Be good enough to break into the lineup, say like Andrae has?

Rookies this year, Michkov, Andrae, Kolosov, Fedotov.
2nd year, Foerster, Brink, Zamula, Ersson

The oldest players in the top 20 (play every day)
Hathaway (33), Couts (32), Seeler (31), Laughton (30), Risto (30)
We'll see how many are left by May. Risto and Laughton already mentioned in trade talks.

The only other players older than 25
Sanheim (28), Fedotov (28), TK (27), Poehling (26)

You realize the only reason Andrae is in the lineup is because of injuries, right? He was blocked by players that shouldn't be on this team

 

[Flyerfan4life]

You realize the only reason Andrae is in the lineup is because of injuries, right? He was blocked by players that shouldn't be on this team

you know they are signing another version of EJ for next season...gotta have a old dog

 

[trostol]

you know they are signing another version of EJ for next season...gotta have a old dog

and then we will be told they will only play a little and are basically just signed to be a #7 and won't block anyone

 

[deadhead]

But you said this last year. And we ended up extending Seeler, extending Hathaway, not trading Laughton, signing Johnson to another year, keeping Laughton forever more.

Last summer was more of a holding pattern, they had cleared out most of the veterans they didn't want to keep. They knew Michkov and Fedotov were coming over.
They did listen to offers for Laughton, no rumors that they were offered substantial picks for Hathaway or Seeler, so more value as veteran depth than mid-round draft picks.

Really don't care about draft picks outside the 3rd rd, and even 3rd rd picks have limited value (for every Ghost, there are 10 misses). Maybe Barkey, McDonald, Knuble, Sotheran, Bump will be exceptions, but not betting on them.

You go into every season knowing you'll need 14 forwards and 8 D-men b/c injuries are inevitable.
You don't know which young players will step up, just look at prospect lists and who actually makes it a year later.
So you want enough veteran depth so you don't have to rush prospects who clearly aren't ready.

Note when they play kids, they generally give them more PT than the marginal veterans.
Grans 14:36, Johnson 13:22.
Luchanko 14:03, Poehling 13:46
Even in a cameo, give the kid enough PT to get a feel.

You realize the only reason Andrae is in the lineup is because of injuries, right? He was blocked by players that shouldn't be on this team

You know if Andrae played like this in LHV, at some point he would have been recalled, due to injury or a starter slumping.

How did Lou Gehrig get his shot?

 

[freakydallas13]

You know if Andrae played like this in LHV, at some point he would have been recalled, due to injury or a starter slumping.

Actually we (and you specifically) don't know this, it is entirely speculation on your part you are passing of as a certainty.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Actually we (and you specifically) don't know this, it is entirely speculation on your part you are passing of as a certainty.

Well he did get recalled due to injury but that couldn't have been known before the season.

But now that he has been recalled it can be said as though it was true before the season

 

[renberg]

First thing is actions speak louder than words. I don't believe a thing that Briere says. Instead I look at what he does. Even then you don't know if what happened was on Briere or Tortorella. My suspicion is that the "old Vets" that have been brought on have been Tortorella calls. Since the Flyers didn't have much in the system to fill in those spots, Briere has gone along with some of Tortorella's moves. Certainly the Johannsen trade this last spring was not one that Tortorella would have wanted. That indicates that Briere does have some willingness to stand on his own which he needs to do more often.
Right now there are two things that I'm watching with the FO. One is if they move out DCs or young players for old vets such as Trouba and Kreider. Tortorella probably is wetting his pants to make such moves in an attempt to get into the POs for his legacy's sake.
Secondly, and most important of all, is Tortorella going to be given an extension or a job in the FO? Every day that passes without that happening is a good day for Flyer fans. There's no way that Tortorella hangs around for his fourth year on that deal without a forthcoming extension or promotion. He played out the string in Columbus and was miserable while doing it. I can't see him going down that road again. Here's hoping that Briere holds the line on giving Tortorella getting kept around.

 

[FlyerNutter]

These guys have been telling us forever how busy they are. Moving up in the draft. Trading this player, and that.

The issue isn’t the volume, or lack of regarding moves.

It’s who pro amateur scouts/advisors identity as viable targets. I don’t trust the Flyers in any trades. They chase BS far too often.

 

[deadhead]

First thing is actions speak louder than words. I don't believe a thing that Briere says. Instead I look at what he does. Even then you don't know if what happened was on Briere or Tortorella. My suspicion is that the "old Vets" that have been brought on have been Tortorella calls. Since the Flyers didn't have much in the system to fill in those spots, Briere has gone along with some of Tortorella's moves. Certainly the Johannsen trade this last spring was not one that Tortorella would have wanted. That indicates that Briere does have some willingness to stand on his own which he needs to do more often.
Right now there are two things that I'm watching with the FO. One is if they move out DCs or young players for old vets such as Trouba and Kreider. Tortorella probably is wetting his pants to make such moves in an attempt to get into the POs for his legacy's sake.
Secondly, and most important of all, is Tortorella going to be given an extension or a job in the FO? Every day that passes without that happening is a good day for Flyer fans. There's no way that Tortorella hangs around for his fourth year on that deal without a forthcoming extension or promotion. He played out the string in Columbus and was miserable while doing it. I can't see him going down that road again. Here's hoping that Briere holds the line on giving Tortorella getting kept around.

Torts was the one who said the rebuild will take longer than his contract (i.e. longer than 4 years).
His legacy won't be making the POs, it'll be building a SC contender.

Nor does his history suggests he loves vets (AV is another story).
I'd suggest the opposite, he prefers a young team without veterans set in their ways.

He was miserable in CBJ b/c his idiot GM traded for Panarin, knowing he wanted to go to NY, Duchene (1st rd pick), Dzingel (Duclair, (2) 2nd rd picks), traded a 1st and 2nd and Clarkson (salary dump) to Vegas so they'd take Karlsson instead of [Josh Anderson or Joonas Korpisalo] in the ED.

Then let Panarin, Bob, Duchene and Dzingel walk as FAs after the 2018-19 season.

That's a lot of talent to hemorrhage in basically one season.

 

[freakydallas13]

Yeah I can see why Torts was furious his GM traded for arguably a top 5 forward in the League. He'd hate that.

 

[kudymen]

Been a while, I can finally say my favorite pattern made a comeback. "He is / was just a victim"

 

[Beef Invictus]

Some coaches just know these things. They don't need video or even live on-ice examples. They just know. Like Tortorella and Hartnell; he didn't let Hartnell's actual stats get in the way of knowing he was bad.

Or when he sat down with Hartnell to show him video of him being bad, only to find the video showed he did everything right. He didn't let that change his mind.

 

[deadhead]

Or when he sat down with Hartnell to show him video of him being bad, only to find the video showed he did everything right. He didn't let that change his mind.

Well, I'd say everything Torts said about Hartnell is what Flyer fans (and media) said about him for years.

I think he's in a small category of smart but limited veterans with good skills but bad skates later in his career.
2007-08 and 2008-09 he had bad metrics.
After that, his metrics, especially defensive metrics, improved.
He went from a defensive liability to middle of the pack.
Did he get smarter? Learn his limitations? Or did HCs learn to shelter him? Or both?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

They gave up Saad + Anton Forsberg + future 5th for Panarin + Motte + 6th. Idiot GM.