2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[Larry44]

I'm not sure if you're responding to me or someone else, but I didn't say there was a conspiracy. It's just poor planning.

As an example, even if Andrae beats out Zamula, it won't matter. Zamula is Russian. Andrae is not.

So that means re-signing Johnson may not have been the best move in the interests of developing prospects. I don't see the value he brings at this point that isn't already present with some of the veterans on the team now, like Couts, Sanheim, TK, Laughton, Seeler.

This is the heart of so much frustration. Ridiculous signings of useless vets. You have Sanheim, Risto and signed Seeler, inexplicably, to a 4 year deal with 2 years NTC. There is NO NEED whatsoever for Johnson to take up a contract. You have Deslauriers as Goon/13F. Fine. They SHOULD have traded both Laughton and Hathaway at the deadline last year for even more picks. They should trade them this spring, along with Risto, if there are any takers.

Zamula is a very good young player. He's playing. Andrae is the first call up if York or Drysdale get hurt.

There is some promising young talent on the roster and a couple players in LV and some decent prospects. They have to stop prioritizing bottom pair, bottom 6 forwards.

 

[Cody Webster]

This team is set b/c the prospects aren't ready to play.
Luchanko and Bonk should go back to CHL, Barkey after mono has to, Sotheran, etc.
Guys like Bump are still in college.

Attard could push Risto, but Risto is an above 3RHD with a big contract they have to move, so that's a no brainer.

Abols, Rizzo have to outplay Laughton at 3C, while not a huge barrier, neither has yet to show they're NHL caliber.

Lycksell may make the team depending on the last roster spot. Deslauriers was the 13th forward by the end of the season, but 2 years left on his deal. Lycksell is the most NHL ready of the AHL players, his skating is the only thing holding him back. And Eklind is coming off a strong SHL showing, is much bigger (6-4 220) and only a year older.

Andrae has to beat out Zamula, who just got a 2 year deal, Seeler is their best defensive defenseman and paired with Drysdale, their worst defensive defenseman. Ginning is a scrub, could still on some NHL teams but if you lost him on waivers, meh.

Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Rizzo, Avon, Gendron, McDonald, could all use a season in the AHL to raise their game.


So there really is no conspiracy to hold prospects back, they extended Seeler and Hathaway b/c they're solid veterans who have no viable short-run replacements in the system.

Tippett - Frost - Michkov
Farabee - Couts - TK
Cates - Laughton - Foerster/Brink
??? - Poehling - Hathaway
Deslauriers, ???

York - Sanheim
Seeler - Drysdale
Zamula - Risto
Johnson, ???

Abols and Rizzo could score three goals a piece in each of the preseason games and Scott Laughton could lose both his legs and arms and Scott Laughton would still be the 3C over those two guys

 

[renberg]

This is the heart of so much frustration. Ridiculous signings of useless vets. You have Sanheim, Risto and signed Seeler, inexplicably, to a 4 year deal with 2 years NTC. There is NO NEED whatsoever for Johnson to take up a contract. You have Deslauriers as Goon/13F. Fine. They SHOULD have traded both Laughton and Hathaway at the deadline last year for even more picks. They should trade them this spring, along with Risto, if there are any takers.

Zamula is a very good young player. He's playing. Andrae is the first call up if York or Drysdale get hurt.

There is some promising young talent on the roster and a couple players in LV and some decent prospects. They have to stop prioritizing bottom pair, bottom 6 forwards.

Perhaps there will be some roster changes through trades as camp progresses? It’s been said that Risto has a market if the Flyers retain salary. Some clubs would take on Laughton. Still Andrea has to prove that he can play as does whoever takes Laughton’s spot. Deslosers and EJ should be waived to LHV

 

[deadhead]

I'm not sure if you're responding to me or someone else, but I didn't say there was a conspiracy. It's just poor planning.

As an example, even if Andrae beats out Zamula, it won't matter. Zamula is Russian. Andrae is not.

So that means re-signing Johnson may not have been the best move in the interests of developing prospects. I don't see the value he brings at this point that isn't already present with some of the veterans on the team now, like Couts, Sanheim, TK, Laughton, Seeler.

They're not going to want Andrae or Zamula to sit for half the games or more, which is what the 7th D-man does, barring injury. Zamula would have to lose a tie to lose his job b/c he just signed a 2 year deal, they see some upside, and yes, he's Russian. But if Andrae plays well, he's the first recall if there's a serious injury, and they'd recall him to start over Johnson.

Same at RW, they don't want an offensively talented RW to fill Hathaway's role on the 4th line, it's top 9 or play on the top line in all situations in the AHL. And they don't want a legitimate prospect as the 13th/14th forward, sitting in the press box.

The good play of Joel Farabee - Noah Cates - Bobby Brink in the first exhibition game should be watched. If Cates shows he can handle center with skilled wings, suddenly Laughton is an overpaid 4LW and probably goes on the trade block. But if Cates can't handle center, there are no options other than Laughton.

I've seen nothing from Rizzo that says NHL ready so far, which doesn't mean he doesn't have that upside, but a lot of decent college players need a year in the AHL to make that transition. We're not talking an uber talent, Carolina was happy to throw him in.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Hathaway is about as good of a 4th liner as there is in the NHL.

Can't believe some people would prefer a milquetoast AHL tweener.

 

[Larry44]

Perhaps there will be some roster changes through trades as camp progresses? It’s been said that Risto has a market if the Flyers retain salary. Some clubs would take on Laughton. Still Andrea has to prove that he can play as does whoever takes Laughton’s spot. Deslosers and EJ should be waived to LHV

We can only hope something happens. I'd like to see Lycksell play. He has NHL speed and can finish. Brink is a given on the roster.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

They're not going to want Andrae or Zamula to sit for half the games or more, which is what the 7th D-man does, barring injury. Zamula would have to lose a tie to lose his job b/c he just signed a 2 year deal, they see some upside, and yes, he's Russian. But if Andrae plays well, he's the first recall if there's a serious injury, and they'd recall him to start over Johnson.

Same at RW, they don't want an offensively talented RW to fill Hathaway's role on the 4th line, it's top 9 or play on the top line in all situations in the AHL. And they don't want a legitimate prospect as the 13th/14th forward, sitting in the press box.

The good play of Joel Farabee - Noah Cates - Bobby Brink in the first exhibition game should be watched. If Cates shows he can handle center with skilled wings, suddenly Laughton is an overpaid 4LW and probably goes on the trade block. But if Cates can't handle center, there are no options other than Laughton.

I've seen nothing from Rizzo that says NHL ready so far, which doesn't mean he doesn't have that upside, but a lot of decent college players need a year in the AHL to make that transition. We're not talking an uber talent, Carolina was happy to throw him in.

Rizzio hasn't played 1 pro game so how could you? Not even sure why you mention it.

Where does it say you have to have a 4th line of GH types? This is what the Flyers, a rebuilding team, has chosen to do.

Laughton will never ever go on the trade block anytime soon. Why cant you accept this fact? He is viewed as a core player. When/if he is traded it will be at his lowest value and will show that the Flyers missed the boat yet again.

No you don't want Andrae or Zamula to sit. That is why Seeler should have been moved. Defend until the end. My early season prediction is Seeler has a bad year.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Ersson, can be a number one goalie as he ages and understand the assignment, I’ll die on that cross. lol I hope he can be because that man 1 on 1 is unreal. I don’t think enough people talk about it but he takes even a minor step next year this is a playoff team most likely. Coots bouncing back as an elite defensive, 50-60 point center, and we see playoffs.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Hathaway is about as good of a 4th liner as there is in the NHL.

Can't believe some people would prefer a milquetoast AHL tweener.

Its not about the player, it is how the Flyers go about constructing the team.

There is no rationale to give him a 2 year ext before the season started. That is flat out bad business.

They're not going to want Andrae or Zamula to sit for half the games or more, which is what the 7th D-man does, barring injury. Zamula would have to lose a tie to lose his job b/c he just signed a 2 year deal, they see some upside, and yes, he's Russian. But if Andrae plays well, he's the first recall if there's a serious injury, and they'd recall him to start over Johnson.

Same at RW, they don't want an offensively talented RW to fill Hathaway's role on the 4th line, it's top 9 or play on the top line in all situations in the AHL. And they don't want a legitimate prospect as the 13th/14th forward, sitting in the press box.

The good play of Joel Farabee - Noah Cates - Bobby Brink in the first exhibition game should be watched. If Cates shows he can handle center with skilled wings, suddenly Laughton is an overpaid 4LW and probably goes on the trade block. But if Cates can't handle center, there are no options other than Laughton.

I've seen nothing from Rizzo that says NHL ready so far, which doesn't mean he doesn't have that upside, but a lot of decent college players need a year in the AHL to make that transition. We're not talking an uber talent, Carolina was happy to throw him in.

What is the average points a 3rd line LW puts up? 43 and 39 points the last 2 seasons.

 

[ponder719]

They're not going to want Andrae or Zamula to sit for half the games or more, which is what the 7th D-man does, barring injury. Zamula would have to lose a tie to lose his job b/c he just signed a 2 year deal, they see some upside, and yes, he's Russian. But if Andrae plays well, he's the first recall if there's a serious injury, and they'd recall him to start over Johnson.

Neither of them should be the 7th defenseman, they should be fighting to be the third pairing, but they aren't because this team can't seem to move off the players who shouldn't be here in the first place.

Sanheim-York
Drysdale-Zamula
Andrae-Ginning
Plug (Belpedio, for preference, Johnson, if Brière absolutely has to have a decrepit old man around somewhere as a safety blanket)

That'd be perfectly serviceable for a rebuilding team, and if some of the guys down at the bottom of that list aren't cutting it, then we give the Attards of the world a shot, but no, we have to be stuck with Seeler and Risto for the next several years.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Ersson, can be a number one goalie as he ages and understand the assignment, I’ll die on that cross. lol I hope he can be because that man 1 on 1 is unreal. I don’t think enough people talk about it but he takes even a minor step next year this is a playoff team most likely. Coots bouncing back as an elite defensive, 50-60 point center, and we see playoffs.

To quote myself Brink might be the biggest surprise out of camp he looks jacked in his post game interview, noticeably faster, guy wants it, hope he cements himself in the top 6 guy always had the skill as a prospect. As a Flyers fan this one of the more interesting seasons in the last 20 years easily.

 

[flyersnorth]

Hathaway is about as good of a 4th liner as there is in the NHL.

Can't believe some people would prefer a milquetoast AHL tweener.

I'd like to at least see a rotation where we get to see the development and hopefully emergence of our own homegrown bottom sixers who are not going to be 33 years old in a few months. And I like Hathaway.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This team is set b/c the prospects aren't ready to play.
Luchanko and Bonk should go back to CHL, Barkey after mono has to, Sotheran, etc.
Guys like Bump are still in college.

Attard could push Risto, but Risto is an above 3RHD with a big contract they have to move, so that's a no brainer.

Abols, Rizzo have to outplay Laughton at 3C, while not a huge barrier, neither has yet to show they're NHL caliber.

Lycksell may make the team depending on the last roster spot. Deslauriers was the 13th forward by the end of the season, but 2 years left on his deal. Lycksell is the most NHL ready of the AHL players, his skating is the only thing holding him back. And Eklind is coming off a strong SHL showing, is much bigger (6-4 220) and only a year older.

Andrae has to beat out Zamula, who just got a 2 year deal, Seeler is their best defensive defenseman and paired with Drysdale, their worst defensive defenseman. Ginning is a scrub, could still on some NHL teams but if you lost him on waivers, meh.

Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Rizzo, Avon, Gendron, McDonald, could all use a season in the AHL to raise their game.


So there really is no conspiracy to hold prospects back, they extended Seeler and Hathaway b/c they're solid veterans who have no viable short-run replacements in the system.

Tippett - Frost - Michkov
Farabee - Couts - TK
Cates - Laughton - Foerster/Brink
??? - Poehling - Hathaway
Deslauriers, ???

York - Sanheim
Seeler - Drysdale
Zamula - Risto
Johnson, ???

You say this every year. Usually after constructing numerous rosters filled with prospects, so it's a step in the right direction that you aren't bothering with that this time.

Their readiness is irrelevant, unfortunately. Nothing about this roster should be set, and yet it is. They are not rebuilding and never were.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Hathaway is about as good of a 4th liner as there is in the NHL.

Can't believe some people would prefer a milquetoast AHL tweener.

No. No. No.

What we would prefer is roster flexibility in that spot and the ability to give game time to players that may contribute to this team in whatever contention window they actually create. Hathaway has value to other teams—not for this team as currently constructed and modeled. When considering age, there is a 100% chance Hathaway is diminished and not contributing to this team when a good as they come forth liner would be helpful. There is a non 0% chance some of these tweeners can contribute something of value to this team in that window.

Again, this team consistently lacks that sense of foresight—there is value in those players getting minutes and clarifying their position in the organizational hierarchy.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

No. No. No.

What we would prefer is roster flexibility in that spot and the ability to give game time to players that may contribute to this team in whatever contention window they actually create. Hathaway has value to other teams—not for this team as currently constructed and modeled. When considering age, there is a 100% chance Hathaway is diminished and not contributing to this team when a good as they come forth liner would be helpful. There is a non 0% chance some of these tweeners can contribute something of value to this team in that window.

Again, this team consistently lacks that sense of foresight—there is value in those players getting minutes and clarifying their position in the organizational hierarchy.

cuz they arent rebuilding, but constantly trying to eek into the 8th seed! and you never know!!!

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Hathaway is about as good of a 4th liner as there is in the NHL.

Can't believe some people would prefer a milquetoast AHL tweener.

Love Hath! Absolutely love him. It's hard to not enjoy him, but I'm with Larry vvvvv

Would have rather seen Andrae, Ginning, Attard - or Des, Abols, whoever

This is the heart of so much frustration. Ridiculous signings of useless vets. You have Sanheim, Risto and signed Seeler, inexplicably, to a 4 year deal with 2 years NTC. There is NO NEED whatsoever for Johnson to take up a contract. You have Deslauriers as Goon/13F. Fine. They SHOULD have traded both Laughton and Hathaway at the deadline last year for even more picks. They should trade them this spring, along with Risto, if there are any takers.

Zamula is a very good young player. He's playing. Andrae is the first call up if York or Drysdale get hurt.

There is some promising young talent on the roster and a couple players in LV and some decent prospects. They have to stop prioritizing bottom pair, bottom 6 forwards.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yeah, let's replace one of the best 4th liners in the league in Hathaway, who sets a great example of hard work and abrasiveness that the team wants for its identity, with f'ing Olle Lycksell, who has shown absolutely nothing in 26 NHL games.

Here's a pro tip: Every team in the league has a bunch of Olle Lycksells in their system. They score in the AHL, they do nothing in the NHL.

Why don't we see if Brian Dobbin and Glen Seabrooke are available?

 

[Curufinwe]

Abols and Rizzo could score three goals a piece in each of the preseason games and Scott Laughton could lose both his legs and arms and Scott Laughton would still be the 3C over those two guys

I mean, yeah. They're waiver exempt guys with no NHL experience.

 

[deadhead]

Its not about the player, it is how the Flyers go about constructing the team.

There is no rationale to give him a 2 year ext before the season started. That is flat out bad business.


What is the average points a 3rd line LW puts up? 43 and 39 points the last 2 seasons.

Huh, what? Where do you get that?
Very few 3rd line guys put up 30+ ES points.

ES scoring by median forward:
48th: 48 (TK 51, Tippett 45, Farabee 43)
144th: 33 (Frost 29, Couts 28, Laughton 25)
240th: 23 (Foerster 23, Atkinson 22, Poehling 21,)
336th: 13 (Brink 18, Cates 15, Hathaway 14)

 

[freakydallas13]

Yeah, let's replace one of the best 4th liners in the league in Hathaway, who sets a great example of hard work and abrasiveness that the team wants for its identity, with f'ing Olle Lycksell, who has shown absolutely nothing in 26 NHL games.

We're not saying Hathway is a useless plug, we're saying he won't be useful by the time the team is competitive so keeping him on the roster at the expense of developing some of the prospects is detrimental to the future of this team.

 

[trostol]

nope..still not high enough for some of these takes

 

[deadhead]

Yeah, let's replace one of the best 4th liners in the league in Hathaway, who sets a great example of hard work and abrasiveness that the team wants for its identity, with f'ing Olle Lycksell, who has shown absolutely nothing in 26 NHL games.

Here's a pro tip: Every team in the league has a bunch of Olle Lycksells in their system. They score in the AHL, they do nothing in the NHL.

Why don't we see if Brian Dobbin and Glen Seabrooke are available?

That's unfair to Lycksell who has produced at the AHL level.

Now whether he's the next Marody remains to be seen (talented forward with subpar skating who is a good AHL scorer but can't hack it at the next level).

Right now Lycksell is competing with Brink and Eklind for a roster spot.
If they decide Cates should move back to center, then he's competing with Laughton and Eklind.

 

[Curufinwe]

We're not saying Hathway is a useless plug, we're saying he won't be useful by the time the team is competitive so keeping him on the roster at the expense of developing some of the prospects is detrimental to the future of this team.

Extending 30-something 4th liners a year in advance is so Philly typical.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That's unfair to Lycksell who has produced at the AHL level.

Now whether he's the next Marody remains to be seen (talented forward with subpar skating who is a good AHL scorer but can't hack it at the next level).

Right now Lycksell is competing with Brink and Eklind for a roster spot.
If they decide Cates should move back to center, then he's competing with Laughton and Eklind.

How is it unfair to Lycksell?

Did I not say he scores at the AHL level?

Fact remains he's now 25 and has shown nothing in 26 career NHL games.

There are too many people here who think veterans have no place on the team (unless their name is Giroux). The Flyers already are one of the youngest teams in the league. Is it not better to bring them along in a competitive environment with a few good veteran leaders?

 

[ponder719]

How is it unfair to Lycksell?

Did I not say he scores at the AHL level?

Fact remains he's now 25 and has shown nothing in 26 career NHL games.

There are too many people here who think veterans have no place on the team (unless their name is Giroux). The Flyers already are one of the youngest teams in the league. Is it not better to bring them along in a competitive environment with a few good veteran leaders?

He's 25, and he's only had 26 NHL games. Who, exactly, is bringing these young kids along? Nobody brought him along to the NHL. They're stagnating at the AHL level, because instead of a few good veteran leaders (6-7 is a perfectly reasonable number for a rebuilding team, as I've said elsewhere), the NHL roster is clogged to the point that there aren't enough opportunities to see whether there's anything more to these guys.