2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[pit]

Tbf to Dead, I don't think he really spends much time complaining about Hextall. That honorific belongs to a different poster.

I feel like it was about a week ago that I had to debunk the assertion that the Phantoms current lack of skill was due to Hextall's drafting. The Hextall blame may be less egregious than that offered by others, but it's definitely not absent. Considering how anything negative from the Fletcher/Briere eras gets so easily handwaved away, it sticks out more when 6+ year old mistakes are dragged out as the cause of current issues rather than laying the blame at the feet of those who can initiate change.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Deslauriers is on his way out, only played half the games the second half and less than 7 minutes a game, in favor of mostly Lycksell.

Risto, Briere is stuck with that contract, only way to move him is hope he continues to improve, he's a solid 3RHD who is overpaid, but if he continues to improve his defense, playoff GMs love big, physical RHDs for the playoffs. Might have to take a contract back.

I think Laughton is gone next year if Luchanko is ready/Rizzo shows he's a NHL caliber center. Right now they don't have a viable alternative in the organization.

Seeler has two years of protection, after that, I think he's gone if they find/develop a LHD to replace him. His salary makes him easy to move as a veteran 3LHD. He's a great shot blocker and that has value to some teams.

The best prospects are a year or two away, Luchanko and Bonk possibly next season, Bump, Barkey, Sotheran, etc. in two to three years, 2025 1st rd picks in two to four years. By the time these guys arrive, Flyers will have core of players from 24-27 years old and will phase out most veterans.

Risto is not improving. It is his usage and how they play that is making him a capable 3rd pair guy. No fn team is trading for him with that contract. Unless as you said an equally bad one is coming back. His physical play is so overrated. Beyond overrated.

They have shown zero indication to move Laughton. You know this. If they finally, do it will be when his value is lowest instead of selling high. Keeping him around accomplished what exactly? Add Seeler in this mix as well.

Love how you name propsects who have a long road ahead of them to even make the NHL as part of the future.

Flyers will never ever phase out vets. See Laughton, GH, and Seeler. They may be gone though they will have been replaced by other vets who bread culture. ND will be here until his contract expires.

 

[dragonoffrost]

rebuild does not equal tanking

AHL level playing does not indicate what one may or may not do at the NHL level

we will never know because these prospects do not get solid chance to show what they can do at the NHL level...

Seeler, GH, etc should have been moved for assets be it younger players or draft picks..you play the prospects you have and see what you've got..you could, in theory, have a bunch of shit and need to get rid of it/replace...you could have actual NHL players...

a year or two of evaluating at the actual NHL level isn't going to kill them

THIS 1000000000000X THIS!

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836742790052544555

 

[blackjackmulligan]

This has been repeatedly debunked. For example, remember how Frost never dominated the AHL, so you used that as proof that the team was right to refuse to use him? And then it turned out he's actually a 2C.

On the Flyers and some bottom feeders sure. How many cup contending teams is he the 2nd line center?

He is now going into his 6th year of pro hockey and needs to show a much more consistent game. Increase his point total to mid 50's level. No more excuses. No more the coach doesn't like me. No more I am getting screwed.

Like Gunny Hightower said, he needs to overcome and adapt.

 

[Beef Invictus]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836742790052544555

And the end result for the season will be...?

 

[dragonoffrost]

Risto is not improving. It is his usage and how they play that is making him a capable 3rd pair guy. No fn team is trading for him with that contract. Unless as you said an equally bad one is coming back. His physical play is so overrated. Beyond overrated.

They have shown zero indication to move Laughton. You know this. If they finally, do it will be when his value is lowest instead of selling high. Keeping him around accomplished what exactly? Add Seeler in this mix as well.

Love how you name propsects who have a long road ahead of them to even make the NHL as part of the future.

Flyers will never ever phase out vets. See Laughton, GH, and Seeler. They may be gone though they will have been replaced by other vets who bread culture. ND will be here until his contract expires.

I am going to add a little to your Risto trade. It won't just be a bad contract it will also be longer in term.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

And the end result for the season will be...?

A Torts extension.

I am going to add a little to your Risto trade. It won't just be a bad contract it will also be longer in term.

Nothing is surprising. Dead is a smart guy and it cracks me up he thinks Risto is tradable if he plays "good" and improves. He will be 30 in a month and what a 12 year vet? How much fn improvement you expecting?

 

[deadhead]

I feel like it was about a week ago that I had to debunk the assertion that the Phantoms current lack of skill was due to Hextall's drafting. The Hextall blame may be less egregious than that offered by others, but it's definitely not absent. Considering how anything negative from the Fletcher/Briere eras gets so easily handwaved away, it sticks out more when 6+ year old mistakes are dragged out as the cause of current issues rather than laying the blame at the feet of those who can initiate change.

I pointed out that CF's tradng of draft pick left a hole in the talent donut.
It was the combination of Hextall misses and CF that emptied the cupboard.

It'll take a couple years for more recent draft picks to arrive in LHV, CHL 2 years, college 2-3 years, SHL/KHL. Next year Bonk, Luchanko, Barkey, Sotheran, Bump, Bjarnason, Kaplan?, Knuble? If a couple make the big squad, they push someone else down.

You can see from the current roster, they actually have a lot of prospects, but none that will probably be top AHL players unless they make big jumps. For Phantoms to be Calder Cup challenger, players like Rizzo, Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Avon, McDonald et al have to step up.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I pointed out that CF's tradng of draft pick left a hole in the talent donut.
It was the combination of Hextall misses and CF that emptied the cupboard.

It'll take a couple years for more recent draft picks to arrive in LHV, CHL 2 years, college 2-3 years, SHL/KHL. Next year Bonk, Luchanko, Barkey, Sotheran, Bump, Bjarnason, Kaplan?, Knuble? If a couple make the big squad, they push someone else down.

You can see from the current roster, they actually have a lot of prospects, but none that will probably be top AHL players unless they make big jumps. For Phantoms to be Calder Cup challenger, players like Rizzo, Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Avon, McDonald et al have to step up.

Bonk and Jett are the only 2 who you can pretty much guarantee will be in the Flyers lineup at some point.

The rest are so far away if they make it at all. Based on the Flyers draft/development record if they get a couple out of that group and others to be NHL regulars in a few years then that's good. Not great by any means. Sotheran has a medical condition and isn't even on the ice. They have soured on Kaplan and will not be signed unless he picks it up.

Outside the 1st round how many good NHL players have the Flyers drafted in the last decade?

 

[Beef Invictus]

I pointed out that CF's tradng of draft pick left a hole in the talent donut.
It was the combination of Hextall misses and CF that emptied the cupboard.

It'll take a couple years for more recent draft picks to arrive in LHV, CHL 2 years, college 2-3 years, SHL/KHL. Next year Bonk, Luchanko, Barkey, Sotheran, Bump, Bjarnason, Kaplan?, Knuble? If a couple make the big squad, they push someone else down.

You can see from the current roster, they actually have a lot of prospects, but none that will probably be top AHL players unless they make big jumps. For Phantoms to be Calder Cup challenger, players like Rizzo, Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Avon, McDonald et al have to step up.

You spent the whole CF tenure telling us that all the pick bleeding didn't matter.

 

[ybnvs]

Remember how mad all of us were when Risto gave Hart a concussion after he showed everyone how braindead he is by crosschecking a guy from behind directly into Hart?

Risto f***ing sucks, even in his "new and improved", limited, stay-at-home defenseman, made-up role. He sucks, through and through. A physical low iq player with a bad first pass who has good straight line speed is Risto in a nutshell.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Remember how mad all of us were when Risto gave Hart a concussion after showed everyone how braindead he is by crosschecking a guy from behind directly into Hart?

Risto f***ing sucks, even in his "new and improved", limited, stay-at-home defenseman, made-up role. He sucks, through and through. A physical low iq player with a bad first pass who has good straight line speed is Risto in a nutshell.

Haha. Yeah. "We have made the 5 million dollar dman we paid heavily for into a 3rd pair limited player! Success!"

 

[pit]

I pointed out that CF's tradng of draft pick left a hole in the talent donut.
It was the combination of Hextall misses and CF that emptied the cupboard.

It'll take a couple years for more recent draft picks to arrive in LHV, CHL 2 years, college 2-3 years, SHL/KHL. Next year Bonk, Luchanko, Barkey, Sotheran, Bump, Bjarnason, Kaplan?, Knuble? If a couple make the big squad, they push someone else down.

You can see from the current roster, they actually have a lot of prospects, but none that will probably be top AHL players unless they make big jumps. For Phantoms to be Calder Cup challenger, players like Rizzo, Tuomaala, Desnoyers, Avon, McDonald et al have to step up.

You did point out that Fletcher's bad trades were an issue for the lack of talent on the Phantoms. That's good. But then in other posts you will assert that the Risto trade is water under the bridge. Actually, that water has pooled into a stagnant bog and that bog is currently located in LHV. It can't be hand-waved away.

As I said in my reply before, Hextall's drafting is a non-factor for LHV. It still impacts the Flyers, to be sure, but it's categorically impossible for Hextall to be at fault for the Phantoms. Anyone he could have drafted would be aged out of the Phantoms by now.

The void down there is both Fletcher's trading and drafting under Fletcher/Flahr. Even with the benefit of hindsight, one can't go back and change Hextall's picks in any way that would give us more talent on the Phantoms.

 

[landsbergfan]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836742790052544555

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836746118668910678

Lol

 

[ybnvs]

Haha. Yeah. "We have made the 5 million dollar dman we paid heavily for into a 3rd pair limited player! Success!"

But really the only thing the Flyers are doing differently than Buffalo is not giving him the offensive role/top line minutes. He's not changed as a player at this point in his life, he's just more restricted (for good reason).

 

[deadhead]

A Torts extension.


Nothing is surprising. Dead is a smart guy and it cracks me up he thinks Risto is tradable if he plays "good" and improves. He will be 30 in a month and what a 12 year vet? How much fn improvement you expecting?

How much does he need? Last year
xGF 56.23%, HDCF 58.38%, xGFrel +7.95, HDCFrel +8.85
Year before
xGF 47.80%, HDCF 50.32%, xGFrel +0.00, HDCFrel +3.32
Zamula was significantly better paired with Risto.

Now this improvement came at the expense of offensive production, but walk before you run, Shaw wanted to fix his defense, they'll give him him more latitude on offense this season.

The eyeballs confirm, when he first arrived he'd consistently take himself out of position chasing hits, now he focuses on positioning, using his body and reach to break up plays.

When healthy he has above average speed, great size and a solid all around skill package.
Lacks the instincts to be a dominant defensive defenseman, but could play 2RHD with a solid partner.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

How much does he need? Last year
xGF 56.23%, HDCF 58.38%, xGFrel +7.95, HDCFrel +8.85
Year before
xGF 47.80%, HDCF 50.32%, xGFrel +0.00, HDCFrel +3.32
Zamula was significantly better paired with Risto.

Now this improvement came at the expense of offensive production, but walk before you run, Shaw wanted to fix his defense, they'll give him him more latitude on offense this season.

The eyeballs confirm, when he first arrived he'd consistently take himself out of position chasing hits, now he focuses on positioning, using his body and reach to break up plays.

When healthy he has above average speed, great size and a solid all around skill package.
Lacks the instincts to be a dominant defensive defenseman, but could play 2RHD with a solid partner.

Those phantom stats are meaningless when all is said and done.

They now play a system that doesn't allow that. They simplified it for him and lowered his minutes. Nothing more. Still at the end of the day he is nothing but a 3rd pair dman.

Then why would the Flyers want to trade him as that type is always in demand and hard to find no? Seems would be a valuable piece for the Flyers to make the playoffs which they so desire. Don't make sense you pushing to get rid of him then.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Is that rope going to be used to keep the horse that kicked Torts in the face on the barn?

 

[Cody Webster]

I remember the days where we were told that there would be a revolving door for prospects, because rebuilding teams need to see what they have. And now we are hearing that they can't do that because they are rebuilding.


How does that work?

The same way being glad that Ghost was gone because he wasn't good enough to hoping that Drysdale turns out to be Ghost, I'm guessing

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

And the end result for the season will be...?

Can't wait for this team to be exhausted by game 60.

 

[Cody Webster]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1836742790052544555

So embarrassing

 

[deadhead]

Those phantom stats are meaningless when all is said and done.

They now play a system that doesn't allow that. They simplified it for him and lowered his minutes. Nothing more. Still at the end of the day he is nothing but a 3rd pair dman.

Then why would the Flyers want to trade him as that type is always in demand and hard to find no? Seems would be a valuable piece for the Flyers to make the playoffs which they so desire. Don't make sense you pushing to get rid of him then.

Sanheim, Drysdale, Bonk, Attard, Sotheran, Mills.
Unfortunately Grans and Samson haven't shown enough improvement to be considered prospects.

You don't need to pay $5M for Risto and block young prospects if you can find a buyer.
But he's good enough you don't spend assets to move him or buy him out.

A lot of making moves is opportunistic, if someone had offered a 2nd for Seeler, he'd probably be gone, but a late 3rd, well, he has more value mentoring someone like Drysdale. A late 2nd has far more trade value, say in the draft, than a late 3rd.

Same with Risto, he's a solid piece, if Drysdale doesn't work out, Risto might move up to 2RHD and Attard to 3RHD. But if at the TDL someone wants a big RHD with term, nice knowing ya.

 

[Curufinwe]

On the Flyers and some bottom feeders sure. How many cup contending teams is he the 2nd line center?

He is now going into his 6th year of pro hockey and needs to show a much more consistent game. Increase his point total to mid 50's level. No more excuses. No more the coach doesn't like me. No more I am getting screwed.

I agree he wouldn't be a 2C on a Cup Contender but the Flyers are light years away from contention so why even bring that up?

Frost has been consistent, scoring 87 points in 152 games under Torts. If the idiot coach hadn't scratched him 12 times he'd be in the 90s, third most on the team. Btw, Frost has never really complained about how he has been treated. And due to Covid and a season ending shoulder injury in 2021, he's only played 229 games. So there probably more room for growth than in a player like Farabee who is a year younger, but has already played 334 games.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Curufinwe]

You did point out that Fletcher's bad trades were an issue for the lack of talent on the Phantoms. That's good. But then in other posts you will assert that the Risto trade is water under the bridge. Actually, that water has pooled into a stagnant bog and that bog is currently located in LHV. It can't be hand-waved away.

As I said in my reply before, Hextall's drafting is a non-factor for LHV. It still impacts the Flyers, to be sure, but it's categorically impossible for Hextall to be at fault for the Phantoms. Anyone he could have drafted would be aged out of the Phantoms by now.

Amusingly, the Phantoms do actually have a Hextall draft pick - 27 year old Cooper Marody, who the Flyers took 158th overall in 2015. Then they traded his rights to Edmonton for a 3rd round pick in 2019, which was used to move up to take Bobby Brink.

Marody returning to Phantoms with two-year AHL pact

theahl.com