2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1839733394902577467

So, guess that helps clarify whether Attard's making the team...

I once had hopes for him but that ship has sailed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's not that they don't make mistakes, it's just that some people here exaggerate everything.
Zito traded 2 1st rd picks and Tippett and got swept in the second rd of the playoffs.
Boston traded Wheeler and Seguin for peanuts.
Every organization makes mistakes, has high picks that fail to develop, etc.

The problem is the Flyers HAVEN'T been terrible, they've been consistently mediocre.
And that's primarily due to muddled strategy, neither committing to rebuilding, unable to patch effectively and poor cap management. This has been a problem since 2010. "Win now" became "win never."

At least the current group has a consistent vision. It may not be exactly what I'd do (and certainly not what many here would do) but it's a big step up from the Holmgren/Clarke dominated FO.

They've changed about 1/3 of the organizational personnel over the last few years.
Whether this will improve scouting and development won't be known for 2-3 more years.
The Phillies did the same, and after a false start, their farm system started to improve.

They've accumulated young players (12 of 20 starters 25 and under) and draft picks (probably 5 in the top 40 in the 2025 draft). Whether they'll maximize these assets remains to be seen.

At worst, they build up a base of young assets but fail to deliver - in which case the next management group will be in much better shape than Briere when he took over.

You've been telling us we exaggerate and everything will be fine for years. Per your assurances once Fletcher began the rebuild that was blatantly never a rebuild, we should be contenders right now.

Meanwhile things have played out largely as our "exaggerations" expected. Seems they aren't so exaggerated.

 

[deadhead]

Imagining that Attard could turn into Cernak encapsulated everything wrong with their prospect development. His skill-set was always an edge case. I wasn't a big fan of his, although I thought he looked respectable last season in his stint....

They've drafted a bunch of 6'3 RHD (+McDonald) of late, and they'll keep hammering away at finding a Cernak, skill-sets and flaws be damned, because they believe they have the Coca-Cola formula for defensive defensemen. We know they work backwards in development.

They've also drafted a bunch of smurfs, York, Andrae, traded for Drysdale.
Only big defensemen taken early are Bonk and Gill.

Most of the big guys are later round picks, McDonald (6th), Sotheran (5th), Mann (7th), Moline (7th).

Late in the draft, they may figure big D-men who might become decent defensive D-men are as good a bet as undersized forwards like Gendron and Pautov.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Here is Attard’s sG composition.

The sample size isn’t big. There are things that I would describe in ways that don’t exactly match up with the broad conclusions you could make if you just looked at this. But it’s nice to get a baseline.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It's definitely both

Without a doubt.

 

[Magua]

They've also drafted a bunch of smurfs, York, Andrae, traded for Drysdale.

I know you think you're refuting my point, but you're just strengthening it. They draft for fit and roles, and those aren't limited to Cernaks. Quotas go both ways. But just like the size picks, they're not really good at drafting/acquiring these "smurf" types either! Flahr thought York was a dynamic offensive player. They're simply bad at evaluating the skill-sets of defensemen, of all stripes, while believing it's the most vital position. The defensive ones aren't as good defensively as they think; the offensive ones aren't as good offensively as they think.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It's not that they don't make mistakes, it's just that some people here exaggerate everything.
Zito traded 2 1st rd picks and Tippett and got swept in the second rd of the playoffs.
Boston traded Wheeler and Seguin for peanuts.
Every organization makes mistakes, has high picks that fail to develop, etc.

The problem is the Flyers HAVEN'T been terrible, they've been consistently mediocre.
And that's primarily due to muddled strategy, neither committing to rebuilding, unable to patch effectively and poor cap management. This has been a problem since 2010. "Win now" became "win never."

At least the current group has a consistent vision. It may not be exactly what I'd do (and certainly not what many here would do) but it's a big step up from the Holmgren/Clarke dominated FO.

They've changed about 1/3 of the organizational personnel over the last few years.
Whether this will improve scouting and development won't be known for 2-3 more years.
The Phillies did the same, and after a false start, their farm system started to improve.

They've accumulated young players (12 of 20 starters 25 and under) and draft picks (probably 5 in the top 40 in the 2025 draft). Whether they'll maximize these assets remains to be seen.

At worst, they build up a base of young assets but fail to deliver - in which case the next management group will be in much better shape than Briere when he took over.

This is what cup contenders do. He was arguably their best player. You make that trade every time.

 

[deadhead]

This is what cup contenders do. He was arguably their best player. You make that trade every time.

No. You don't give up major assets for rentals - seasons are too variable - your best bet is to be a contender as long as possible and hope to get lucky (or not be unlucky).

The next season he got Tkachuk for the long haul.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

No. You don't give up major assets for rentals - seasons are too variable - your best bet is to be a contender as long as possible and hope to get lucky (or not be unlucky).

The next season he got Tkachuk for the long haul.

Yes, you do if you think that is the missing piece. 100% you do.

Really hurt Florida going forward didn't it.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

You've been telling us we exaggerate and everything will be fine for years. Per your assurances once Fletcher began the rebuild that was blatantly never a rebuild, we should be contenders right now.

Meanwhile things have played out largely as our "exaggerations" expected. Seems they aren't so exaggerated.

3 years away from 3 years away....

 

[Hanover Fist]

3 years away from 3 years away....

For 10 years now…….but they got it right this time

 

[deadhead]

I know you think you're refuting my point, but you're just strengthening it. They draft for fit and roles, and those aren't limited to Cernaks. Quotas go both ways. But just like the size picks, they're not really good at drafting/acquiring these "smurf" types either! Flahr thought York was a dynamic offensive player. They're simply bad at evaluating the skill-sets of defensemen, of all stripes, while believing it's the most vital position. The defensive ones aren't as good defensively as they think; the offensive ones aren't as good offensively as they think.

York's been better than advertised.

When you're drafting in the 5th to 7th rounds, you're drafting long shots, not to some plan.
1st and 2nd rd picks are more likely to fit a "plan."

 

[Beef Invictus]

York's been better than advertised.

When you're drafting in the 5th to 7th rounds, you're drafting long shots, not to some plan.
1st and 2nd rd picks are more likely to fit a "plan."

York has been pretty dead on as advertised since the draft as a high floor low ceiling player.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

York has been pretty dead on as advertised since the draft as a high floor low ceiling player.

meat n potatos baby...

 

[deadhead]

York has been pretty dead on as advertised since the draft as a high floor low ceiling player.

He played on the first pair last season and held his own. Not saying he's a first pair D-man right now, but for a second year starter (84 total games before last season), not to be embarrassed in that role at 23 is a pretty good sign.

We'll see if he can take it up another level this season.

 

[Tripod]

"You don't give up major assets for rentals"

Hmmmmmm.....what did we give up for rental Risto? As a non contender.

 

[deadhead]

"You don't give up major assets for rentals"

Hmmmmmm.....what did we give up for rental Risto? As a non contender.

Did I approve of that deal? No!
Even if Risto had been as good as Fletcher thought he was, I still wouldn't like it.

There's a reason both Hextall and Fletcher are history.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

"You don't give up major assets for rentals"

Hmmmmmm.....what did we give up for rental Risto? As a non contender.

I mean to be fair they did end up signing him, which made it even worse.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Did I approve of that deal? No!
Even if Risto had been as good as Fletcher thought he was, I still wouldn't like it.

There's a reason both Hextall and Fletcher are history.

Who else other than those two has been fired the last decade?

 

[deadhead]

Who else other than those two has been fired the last decade?

A number of scouts and development guys are gone, Brown was demoted from head of pro scouting to scout (probably to play out the string and retire).

 

[Beef Invictus]

He played on the first pair last season and held his own. Not saying he's a first pair D-man right now, but for a second year starter (84 total games before last season), not to be embarrassed in that role at 23 is a pretty good sign.

We'll see if he can take it up another level this season.

I'm cracking up after years of hearing that playing in first pairs doesn't make one a first pair player. Guess you've changed your mind

 

[Beef Invictus]

Did I approve of that deal? No!
Even if Risto had been as good as Fletcher thought he was, I still wouldn't like it.

There's a reason both Hextall and Fletcher are history.

You did approve of it and you defended it a lot

 

[deadhead]

You did approve of it and you defended it a lot

No I didn't, nor did I say York was a first pair D-man.
You must be an IT guy, reading is not your strong suit.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No I didn't, nor did I say York was a first pair D-man.
You must be an IT guy, reading is not your strong suit.

You spent years completely shitting on the notion that playing on a first pair, especially on a weak defense like we have, means anything at all. Completely irrelevant! Ghost is a #7 and all that.

Yes, you did defend the Ristolainen trade. Endlessly.

 

[FlyerNutter]

A number of scouts and development guys are gone, Brown was demoted from head of pro scouting to scout (probably to play out the string and retire).

Which scouts, and development guys are gone?

I genuinely ask bc if you know different than I do. Feel basically 95% of them all remain.