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Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

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Look I love Vladdy but 45m a year for 12 years is kinda f***ing nuts.

I fear that Juan Soto contract may have cooked some teams with young talent. Looking at you Baltimore.
 
trellaine201 said:
What does the free agent class look like next year?
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Vlad will be the absolute cream of the crop along with Kyle Tucker. The next best options for the most part depend on who opts out... Alonso, Bregman have opt outs, Bichette should be the top SS. Realmuto and Schwarber if Philly let's them get that far , which I doubt... pitching looks like a relatively strong class with Cease, Gallen, Valdez.

Guys like Bellinger and Robert Jr could get big pay days depending on how their seasons go.

The guy I'd love out of them all is Luis Arraez... absolute hit machine. Josh Naylor would be nice to have a Canadian aspect.
 
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phillipmike said:
$540M, that is absolutely nuts.
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You can’t blame Vlad for making those demands when Shatkins have been trying to spend their phantom offseason dollars going after Ohtani and Soto. Don’t make headlines pretending to be a big spender only to act like a mid market penny pincher when you’re engaged in a real negotiation.
 
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Stephen said:
You can’t blame Vlad for making those demands when Shatkins have been trying to spend their phantom offseason dollars going after Ohtani and Soto. Don’t make headlines pretending to be a big spender only to act like a mid market penny pincher when you’re engaged in a real negotiation.
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Of course you can blame him for that... he's not the same player as Soto or Ohtani. "I know you have the money because you offered it to other guys" is a terrible rationale and doesn't make Vlad worth that kind of contract.

Refusing to go to $540 million doesn't make them a "mid-market penny pincher". If anything, it suggests Vlad is far more interested in testing the FA market than he is in staying in Toronto.

(For the record, I don't trust Barker on that number unless someone more reliable confirms that it's Vlad's actual ask.)
 
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Discoverer said:
Of course you can blame him for that... he's not the same player as Soto or Ohtani. "I know you have the money because you offered it to other guys" is a terrible rationale and doesn't make Vlad worth that kind of contract.

Refusing to go to $540 million doesn't make them a "mid-market penny pincher". If anything, it suggests Vlad is far more interested in testing the FA market than he is in staying in Toronto.

(For the record, I don't trust Barker on that number unless someone more reliable confirms that it's Vlad's actual ask.)
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They went close to 700M for Soto.

540 over 14 years is 38.5M per year.

With deferrals, we could be talking the equivalent of 30M per year.
 
Stephen said:
You can’t blame Vlad for making those demands when Shatkins have been trying to spend their phantom offseason dollars going after Ohtani and Soto. Don’t make headlines pretending to be a big spender only to act like a mid market penny pincher when you’re engaged in a real negotiation.
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Sure, you cant blame him. But you cant blame the Jays for walkway away either.

Ohtani was and is a unicorn who can pitch and hit with elite company with a rookie of the year award and 2 MVPs. Now has 3 MVPs and a WS.

Soto won WS and has a playoff line of; .281/.389/.538/.927. Soto took the Padres to the NLCS and the Yankees to WS.

We crap on this FO for no playoff wins and it is deserved. Well Vlad is our franchise player during that time and he has no playoff wins either with a playoff line of; .136/.240/.182/.422.

Vlad is a great young player and he will have a long future and make a lot of money.

But let's not forget what he was before last season;
- 1 great year (with a majority at bats coming in minor league parks) and 1 very good one; the rest he underperformed
-He showed up to multiple camps overweight
-The Jays had to move him off 3B and over 1B because he repeatedly came to camp unprepared and out of shape
-There were questions about his baseball IQ and concentration on the field
-Jays season on the line game 2 vs Minnesota, with Springer at 3B and Vlad at 2B with Bo up in a 2-0 game and Vlad gets picked off to end the inning
-Just last year there were issues he wasnt coming to games prepare where balls were going through his glove multiple times in 2023 and 2024

Ohtani and Soto earned these massive offers. Jays offered Vlad $350M+, likely $400M+ when the numbers come out. They werent being cheap, it maybe would have been triple their highest amount of Springer's $150M. Vlad wanted more. Call it greed or call it savvy because he may get a lot more, but to me it isnt Vlad wants to be here, Vlad just wants the most money and i dont blame him but i dont feel sorry for him either.

I would have been skeptical paying him $300M let alone $400M or $500M when we havent won anything with him on pre-arb and arb deals.
 
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Bjindaho said:
They went close to 700M for Soto.

540 over 14 years is 38.5M per year.

With deferrals, we could be talking the equivalent of 30M per year.
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If we're talking significant deferrals, then sure, but that's a different story. We don't know what kind of deferrals they were offering in a Soto deal, either, so I don't see how we can compare outside of pure dollar value.

As great as Vlad was last year and projects to be going forward, Soto's career numbers average out to roughly what Vladdy did last year.
 
Management was certainly between a rock and a hard place. They're not really in a position to let Vladdy walk. But Vladdy probably wants 500+ million and he's not even close to worth that. They sign that and 4 years from now when Vladdy is 29 and has had 2 good and 2 mediocre seasons as per his norm but now is aging and is still owed 40 million a year for 10 more years everyone is calling for their heads just like they are now. He's no Soto and he's no Ohtani, he's not even close. Sure he's 25 so probably could get a 12-14 year contract. The problem is consistency. You want that term then you're worth maybe 25-30 million because you're so damn inconsistent. 2 seasons of a wRC+ in the 160's. 1 in the 130's and 3 in the 100-120 range. You think that's going to get better when he's 32 and half of the contract remains? You want 40 million a year for 14 years then go out and put up a 160 wRC+ again this year someone might be dumb enough to give it to you. If you go out and put up another 130 year then he'll probably have to crawling come back to us with his tail between his legs because 300 million is the biggest offer he can get on the market. If 400+ million was on the table from us he's taking a pretty big gamble when half of his 6 sided dice contain sub 1.5 fWAR seasons. Good luck Vladdy.
 
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If his ask was truly ridiculous then the only egregious mistake was not trading him earlier. You need to get a read of what he is looking for, and if it isn't going to work you need to adjust and trade the guy. Him walking in free agency to like Boston and all we get is a comp pick? That is when everyone gets fired lol
 
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trellaine201 said:
I will say it again. I am very surprised Rogers kept Shapiro and Atkins after last year. Shocking really.
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I'm not to be honest. While Shistain and Atkins developed a pretty good team in Cleveland they didnt spend much Free Agency wise and now theyve got Rogers wallet and have done f*** all with it too. Rogers probably happy with that sadly.
 
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Fantomas said:
This is one of those rare times where I sympathize with Shatkins. Guerrero has that Prince Fielder body and I think he'll be done for by the time he hits 30.

Trade his big ass.
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He definitely doesn’t have the body his dad had. I realize times have changed etc but still just saying. But I am like this with all pro athletes when it comes to long deals. Very hesitant.
 
trellaine201 said:
He definitely doesn’t have the body his dad had. I realize times have changed etc but still just saying. But I am like this with all pro athletes when it comes to long deals. Very hesitant.
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At least he's not 31 like Miguel Cabrera was when he signed that albatross contract. On the other hand, he's nowhere near as good as prime Cabrera.

It's just not a wise investment. Guerrero wants franchise bucks, but he's not a franchise player. Only a year ago, he was barely decent.

I'd like Guerrero more if he was better at drawing walks. He doesn't have outstanding patience for a slugger. When his bat is working and he hits at a high rate, he's a legitimate star. But I just don't think he'll be a .320 hitter going forward and he's already 25 and likely won't improve much.

Easy decision to let him go, IMO.
 
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Fantomas said:
At least he's not 31 like Miguel Cabrera was when he signed that albatross contract. On the other hand, he's nowhere near as good as prime Cabrera.

It's just not a wise investment. Guerrero wants franchise bucks, but he's not a franchise player. Only a year ago, he was barely decent.

I'd like Guerrero more if he was better at drawing walks. He doesn't have outstanding patience for a slugger. When his bat is working and he hits at a high rate, he's a legitimate star. But I just don't think he'll be a .320 hitter going forward and he's already 25 and likely won't improve much.

Easy decision to let him go, IMO.
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Cabrera has consistency, but Vladdy's two best seasons are better than any season Cabrera had by 25. Cabrera's offensive peak was 27-33.

25 is still very young for a baseball player.
 
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Discoverer said:
Cabrera has consistency, but Vladdy's two best seasons are better than any season Cabrera had by 25. Cabrera's offensive peak was 27-33.

25 is still very young for a baseball player.
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You make a good point. I think Shatkins's assessment is that he won't reach that level and won't have the staying power.

It's also maybe worth noting that Cabrera wasn't a fat guy when his career began.
 
“It depends on how you define close” guys!! This is an actual quote from our GM…. It’s comical at this point. These 2 are the biggest clowns in sports. WTF is plan B? WTF is plan C? The problem for years with this FO is there is never a direction. They always play coy and give us word salad.. it’s disgusting. Should’ve been fired a long time ago.

The second Bo and Vlad leave for nothing we’re back to the late 90’s early 2000’s dark abyss days. Complete irrelevance.

We’re going to have a rebuild that probably lasts a decade maybe more. Ross and Mark have destroyed this franchise in 9 years
 
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