Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[saska sault]

Great move.

It amazes me he spends his career in Tampa and wins a WS with LA, and he chooses Toronto to work for because he loves the city and org.

Got overpaid by them before, why not go back to the well.

 

[DuklaNation]

I give Orelvis Martinez every chance to get starting or platoon job at 3B in spring training. Wonder what the plan for regular DH is.

 

[MK78]

Great move.

It amazes me he spends his career in Tampa and wins a WS with LA, and he chooses Toronto to work for because he loves the city and org.

He really did love it here, remember he wanted to sign the Canadian anthem but they wouldnt let him. He was a fan favourite for sure for the short time he was here, that 1st season he was pretty good.

I'm always so respectful of a player that knows when his time is up, and doesnt hang around for years taking up roster spots and prevent young players from getting a shot.

 

[canucksfan]

Great move.

It amazes me he spends his career in Tampa and wins a WS with LA, and he chooses Toronto to work for because he loves the city and org.

As much as management gets shit on, a lot of players that played in Toronto rave about the experience. They often highlight how the organization really looks after the families.

 

[Dr.Funk]

I give Orelvis Martinez every chance to get starting or platoon job at 3B in spring training. Wonder what the plan for regular DH is.

Will Wagner

 

[Discoverer]

Will Wagner

Wagner probably gets plenty, yeah. To some extent it'll likely be a rotation, unfortunately.

If they give an opening day roster spot and regular playing time to either Orelvis or Roden (the two AAA guys who I think could have a big impact next year and potentially replace Horwitz's offense) I'll feel a lot better and ok it the lineup. But I don't expect them to do that.

 

[aingefan]

I give Orelvis Martinez every chance to get starting or platoon job at 3B in spring training. Wonder what the plan for regular DH is.

I wonder if they just punt his glove and maybe teach him first base this year?

He’s got plenty of pop.

I did a few gp breakdowns before Alonso signed with the Mets. Did one where Alonso got 150gp, and managed to get Will 120 or so. Now those 150 are still up in the air. Orelvis could be a good bet for those AB’s.

Point is, there’s good AAA bats….decent odds that someone will break through and make us think not getting Alonso was fine.

 

[dredeye]

Scherzer coming here is a win win for him. If they jays find a stride he can get a playoff birth. If not he’s playing on a really strong defensive team so his numbers will look great at the deadline making him attractive to other playoff teams.

 

[conFABulator]

I wonder if they just punt his glove and maybe teach him first base this year?

He’s got plenty of pop.

I did a few gp breakdowns before Alonso signed with the Mets. Did one where Alonso got 150gp, and managed to get Will 120 or so. Now those 150 are still up in the air. Orelvis could be a good bet for those AB’s.

Point is, there’s good AAA bats….decent odds that someone will break through and make us think not getting Alonso was fine.

Yeah, Alonso always felt like an awkward fit. He added some needed power behind Vladdy and Santander, but he would've taken up a lot of DH at-bats, and the team seems to prefer keeping that spot flexible.

If he got 500 ABs, that would mean 500 fewer for a mix of Clement, Wagner, Barger, and Martinez. When you break down what those guys could collectively produce in the right matchups, how much are you really losing compared to Alonso? Is that gap worth $25M per year for three seasons? Probably not—especially if that money can go toward pitching or better roster fits, like a second catcher or an outfielder with some power.

 

[Dr.Funk]

 

[Eyedea]

I know a lot of people don't like the sound of "internal" options for a team that struggled... but there's enough young 2B/3Bs to hope one can breakout or bounce back... right? Like hypothetically if a Wagner/Leo/Schneider goes on a tear, maybe it would make more sense to have Gimenez at 3B? Or if Orelvis/Barger steal a spot, they might be more suited for 3B. Plus there's always the potential of Clement getting even better, or a non-roster guy like Stefanic (the new Clement) catching some lightning.

 

[aingefan]

Yeah, Alonso always felt like an awkward fit. He added some needed power behind Vladdy and Santander, but he would've taken up a lot of DH at-bats, and the team seems to prefer keeping that spot flexible.

If he got 500 ABs, that would mean 500 fewer for a mix of Clement, Wagner, Barger, and Martinez. When you break down what those guys could collectively produce in the right matchups, how much are you really losing compared to Alonso? Is that gap worth $25M per year for three seasons? Probably not—especially if that money can go toward pitching or better roster fits, like a second catcher or an outfielder with some power.

Yeah, he was a good fit on the hitting side giving you lineup certainty. Less so on the D side.
That’s where folks feel concerned right….basically the 5 and maybe 6 spot in the lineup. And where the best run producers play on the D side.
OMart is probably the best bet as a run producer bat at AAA.
Makes for a much more interesting spring with big roles up for grabs.
Speaking of which, not much media about contract talks with Vlad….could be a big week.

 

[Discoverer]

I know a lot of people don't like the sound of "internal" options for a team that struggled... but there's enough young 2B/3Bs to hope one can breakout or bounce back... right? Like hypothetically if a Wagner/Leo/Schneider goes on a tear, maybe it would make more sense to have Gimenez at 3B? Or if Orelvis/Barger steal a spot, they might be more suited for 3B. Plus there's always the potential of Clement getting even better, or a non-roster guy like Stefanic (the new Clement) catching some lightning.

Yeah, the only position I'm concerned about (other than Springer, but I don't think they were ever going to do anything about that) is DH. I like a lot of the position player options, but I'm not sure any of them can be counted on to provide the kind of middle-of-the-order bat that would justify giving plenty of time at DH. Between Wagner, Orelvis, and Roden, there's definitely hope, but bringing in someone who's a safe bet for a 120+ wRC+ would have meant a lot more certainty/stability in the lineup.

 

[dredeye]

I know a lot of people don't like the sound of "internal" options for a team that struggled... but there's enough young 2B/3Bs to hope one can breakout or bounce back... right? Like hypothetically if a Wagner/Leo/Schneider goes on a tear, maybe it would make more sense to have Gimenez at 3B? Or if Orelvis/Barger steal a spot, they might be more suited for 3B. Plus there's always the potential of Clement getting even better, or a non-roster guy like Stefanic (the new Clement) catching some lightning.

I have no issue with space for what we have. We got a lot of fringy ready players at the deadline that all have potential. I have no concern leaving a spot at 3B for them. Clement likely in line for the lions shares. You'll have the 4th outfield position getting lots of time same as 5th with Varsho out. Might as well figure out if we have anything

We still have a power issue but as long as we don't see another Vogelbach I'm good lol.

 

[Discoverer]

I have no issue with space for what we have. We got a lot of fringy ready players at the deadline that all have potential. I have no concern leaving a spot at 3B for them. Clement likely in line for the lions shares. You'll have the 4th outfield position getting lots of time same as 5th with Varsho out. Might as well figure out if we have anything

We still have a power issue but as long as we don't see another Vogelbach I'm good lol.

I think the power is at least acceptable with the addition of Santander and hopefully a normal Bo. I'm more concerned about just having a good hitter you can reliably plug into the middle of the lineup.

What's kind of interesting is that if they hadn't traded Horwitz I would be satisfied with the lineup they have now. Yet, by both Steamer and ZiPS, Wagner projects for an almost identical offensive line. I think maybe it just doesn't feel that way because we've seen so much less of him.

 

[LaP]

Team is better than last year.

Will it be enough remain to be seen.

 

[dredeye]

I think the power is at least acceptable with the addition of Santander and hopefully a normal Bo. I'm more concerned about just having a good hitter you can reliably plug into the middle of the lineup.

What's kind of interesting is that if they hadn't traded Horwitz I would be satisfied with the lineup they have now. Yet, by both Steamer and ZiPS, Wagner projects for an almost identical offensive line. I think maybe it just doesn't feel that way because we've seen so much less of him.

Clement seemed to have a reasonable bat he just doesn’t have power but neither does Horwitz really. I think Schneider has proved his bat is never going to be consistent enough for the show. Maybe Martinez brings some pop but we’ll see with the added help lol. We’ll see but I’m good to watch them play it out

 

[Stringer Bell]

I still think we need more home runs.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Canada4Gold]

I think the power is at least acceptable with the addition of Santander and hopefully a normal Bo. I'm more concerned about just having a good hitter you can reliably plug into the middle of the lineup.

What's kind of interesting is that if they hadn't traded Horwitz I would be satisfied with the lineup they have now. Yet, by both Steamer and ZiPS, Wagner projects for an almost identical offensive line. I think maybe it just doesn't feel that way because we've seen so much less of him.

The Horwitz/Gimenez trade only made sense to me if they planned on using the DH role full time to a big bat like an Alonso. They could have just kept Horwitz and used him to DH with Wagner at 2nd and the lineup looks way better to me and it's way cheaper. Sure it's worse defensively. But we were already the best defensive team last year. Doesn't feel worth it.

 

[Puckstuff]

The Horwitz/Gimenez trade only made sense to me if they planned on using the DH role full time to a big bat like an Alonso. They could have just kept Horwitz and used him to DH with Wagner at 2nd and the lineup looks way better to me and it's way cheaper. Sure it's worse defensively. But we were already the best defensive team last year. Doesn't feel worth it.

The Gimenez trade is a huge risk.

23.5 million per starting from 2027 all the way until 2029 will be too high if his bat doesn’t rebound.

To make that contract worth it, he’ll need to post something like a .700 OPS, 30 stolen bases, and continue to provide elite defense.

 

[Dr.Funk]

The Horwitz/Gimenez trade only made sense to me if they planned on using the DH role full time to a big bat like an Alonso. They could have just kept Horwitz and used him to DH with Wagner at 2nd and the lineup looks way better to me and it's way cheaper. Sure it's worse defensively. But we were already the best defensive team last year. Doesn't feel worth it.

Well...they did plan on it hence going after Alonso.

 

[aingefan]

The Horwitz/Gimenez trade only made sense to me if they planned on using the DH role full time to a big bat like an Alonso. They could have just kept Horwitz and used him to DH with Wagner at 2nd and the lineup looks way better to me and it's way cheaper. Sure it's worse defensively. But we were already the best defensive team last year. Doesn't feel worth it.

To me, that deal was in part about having an experienced MI locked up, at predictable value, to hedge against whatever happens with Bo.
Even give some leverage for negotiations, part of why I thought they went hard after Alonso.
Interesting to think what else might have happened with that extra ~20 mil? Or Horwitz the asset. Anything?
Would it have changed their approach or the outcome with Fried or Snell? Prolly not, they picked really good situations. Burnes was a family decision, so prolly not. Soto was ‘special money’.

 

[Bjindaho]

The Horwitz/Gimenez trade only made sense to me if they planned on using the DH role full time to a big bat like an Alonso. They could have just kept Horwitz and used him to DH with Wagner at 2nd and the lineup looks way better to me and it's way cheaper. Sure it's worse defensively. But we were already the best defensive team last year. Doesn't feel worth it.

DH is going to be a pain point for the time being.

Alonso would have helped, but that ship has sailed. That being said, Loperfido is the guy that likely makes an Alonso make no sense long term. With natural progression (and fixing some of the things that need fixing), Joey could become an every day LF meaning that Santander DHs.

Horwitz was going to need to be traded at some point assuming that management had no intention of letting him play any positions other than 1B/DH. Wagner could potentially offer a similar offensive profile with better defensive flexibility.

 

[Suntouchable13]

So top 5 payroll, great, but you have to squint really hard to see them in the playoffs. We need someone to breakout. Or maybe Springer having one last great season?