Blue Jays Discussion: 2024-25 Off-season: The free agent watch begins (and sometimes old baseball radio broadcasts)

[stats1]

This is an indictment on Atkins. They are offering the most money most of the time but players just don’t want to come here. Zero farm system, no clarity on Vladdy and Bo situations. It’s just not an attractive place to play right now. Has nothing to do with this perception of Canada as I’ve read in other places. It’s pretty sad that Detroit of all places is more attractive than Toronto…. Put a good team on the field and players will come. Atkins hasn’t done that.

It’s pretty clear even if they do sign 1 of these guys that Atkins should’ve been fired a long time ago. This guy has no idea how to build a winner. When he first got here all we heard was the farm system and developing kids but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. We have one of the highest payrolls on a garbage team with zero farm system.

Remember when Shapiro got here and he apparently ripped AA a new one for leaving the organization’s farm in terrible shape… skip 10 years and AA has a WS title and a better farm system than these clowns

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

You really struggle to understand context, don't you?

I didn't say those would be good contracts or that it's all they need to do to fix the entire future of the organization or anything like that. I didn't say they should do those things or I want them to do those things or I think they'll do those things. Those all all part of your imagination.

Hell, I didn't even say they would be an excellent team with those moves... I said the lineup and rotation would be excellent, referring specifically to 2025, but that they would still need to finish fixing the bullpen.

I have no confidence in management to make the right moves. Atkins should be long gone at the point, and while I don't care much about Shapiro one way or another, he should be gone too just for sticking with Atkins so long. You don't have to make up opinions for me.

The fact that you wrote this.

Still needs bullpen work, but that lineup/rotation are excellent.

And then now saying I never said they would be an excellent team, what are you even talking about now? Claiming that the lineup and rotation would be excellent implies they would be an excellent team lol, you're all over the place here, stop back peddling, and honestly whatever you say doesn't have any merit anymore.

 

[LeafsNet]

This is an indictment on Atkins. They are offering the most money most of the time but players just don’t want to come here. Zero farm system, no clarity on Vladdy and Bo situations. It’s just not an attractive place to play right now. Has nothing to do with this perception of Canada as I’ve read in other places. It’s pretty sad that Detroit of all places is more attractive than Toronto…. Put a good team on the field and players will come. Atkins hasn’t done that.

Has nothing to do with the perception of Canada….but it does have to do with the reality of Canada…specifically the CRA.

I knew about Tavares being in a legal dispute with the CRA, I just recently found out Josh Donaldson and Russel Martin are also battling them in courts.



I agree the that the front office has to be expelled, but the tax situation isn’t helping things.

 

[Discoverer]

The fact that you wrote this.

And then now saying I never said they would be an excellent team, what are you even talking about now? Claiming that the lineup and rotation would be excellent implies they would be an excellent team lol, you're all over the place here, stop back peddling, and honestly whatever you say doesn't have any merit anymore.

Because an excellent team requires at least an adequate bullpen, which they don't currently have and still wouldn't have in the scenario we were discussing.

 

[stats1]

Has nothing to do with the perception of Canada….but it does have to do with the reality of Canada…specifically the CRA.

I knew about Tavares being in a legal dispute with the CRA, I just recently found out Josh Donaldson and Russel Martin are also battling them in courts.



I agree the that the front office has to be expelled, but the tax situation isn’t helping things.

That’s why they offered Burnes 40-50 million more total dollars. The Jays are going out of their way to get around the tax issue by being the highest bidder by quite a lot. It’s just players don’t want to play here not knowing the direction of the team. It also doesn’t help that Burnes just decided deep down he wanted to play at home

 

[dredeye]

From Kim's perspective, I don't really get this. The Dodgers have established starters and depth. Unless they just offered way more money, why would you sign somewhere to be a utility guy/backup at multiple positions when there certainly would have been teams willing to offer a full-time job?

super cheap contract to. 13 for 3 years with a team option for 2 more years. I feel like that's as safe a bet any team could make.

From reading posts....




Then the ones who have replied to me.




Do you read what people actually write here? They still have hope for some reason like they think the Jays will be competitive under these clowns 9 years haven't taught them anything,

If they addressed the bullpen and added 3 key pieces. Yes if they did that they would be much improved. They have done none of those moves which means they won't be exactly what I said and what they underestand.

 

[dredeye]

Free agent Alex Bregman takes shot at the Toronto Blue Jays as he want no part in playing for them

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Free agent Alex Bregman does not want to sign with the Blue Jays​

The Blue Jays seem to be very interested in Bregman to the point where they have been reports that they have even made him an offer very close to his target of $200 million but it looks like he's not interested.

According to recent reports, Bregman is only interested in signing with the Detroit Tigers as they are among the top two teams interested in him along with the Blue Jays and it seems he has no interest in signing in Toronto.



Fans are not exactly upset to see Bregman sign elsewhere as many believe he is on the decline and signing him to a long term deal means holding onto him for a few years while he is overpaid.

Free agent Alex Bregman takes shot at the Toronto Blue Jays as he want no part in playing for them
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No one can blame him or others for not wanting to play here. Like we've all said it's a rudderless ship with no direction and the two faces of the franchise likely gone at seasons end. Why would anyone want to sign here right now. I think if they want these guys they need to offer stupid money on one year deals lol

 

[Cloned]

Crazy to think most of the issues can be traced back to not firing Montoyo until it was too late.

If they had turfed him and hired somebody who could actually teach the players how to be professionals and instilled a culture of responsibility, all that noise about the team being too loose doesn’t happen.

They wouldn’t have felt the need to blow up the room by trading away Teo and Gurriel.

Vladdy is probably happier to be with his friends here and likely already re-signs.

The team becomes more appealing for free agents and we sign at least one of the players that we missed out on this offseason.

Maybe they win a playoff series somewhere in there too.

 

[mikeyz]

Gotta be Bergman, Santander and a higher end starting pitcher plus some pens arms and then MAYBE compete for a WC spot.

Just f***ing rebuild this pos

This is what I have been saying. They need to sign both of those guys. Just 1 of them is not going to be enough.

No one can blame him or others for not wanting to play here. Like we've all said it's a rudderless ship with no direction and the two faces of the franchise likely gone at seasons end. Why would anyone want to sign here right now. I think if they want these guys they need to offer stupid money on one year deals lol

....... Well so much for Bregman.

 

[trellaine201]

Who would want to sign here long term without knowing the teams future? Unless its a huge overpayment I suppose. We don't even have Bo or Vlady locked up etc
Good luck

 

[613Leafer]

Who would want to sign here long term without knowing the teams future? Unless its a huge overpayment I suppose. We don't even have Bo or Vlady locked up etc
Good luck

This is a massive part of it I think.

Taxes aren't new, but we signed Gauzman, Ryu, Springer, Martin, etc. We've definitely shown an ability to bring in quality players in free agency in the past (regardless how those contracts turned out).

The last two years though? Crickets.

 

[Discoverer]

This is an indictment on Atkins. They are offering the most money most of the time but players just don’t want to come here. Zero farm system, no clarity on Vladdy and Bo situations. It’s just not an attractive place to play right now. Has nothing to do with this perception of Canada as I’ve read in other places. It’s pretty sad that Detroit of all places is more attractive than Toronto…. Put a good team on the field and players will come. Atkins hasn’t done that.

It’s pretty clear even if they do sign 1 of these guys that Atkins should’ve been fired a long time ago. This guy has no idea how to build a winner. When he first got here all we heard was the farm system and developing kids but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. We have one of the highest payrolls on a garbage team with zero farm system.

Remember when Shapiro got here and he apparently ripped AA a new one for leaving the organization’s farm in terrible shape… skip 10 years and AA has a WS title and a better farm system than these clowns

For the record, the blogger who wrote that "article" completely made up everything about Bregman taking a shot at Toronto or whatever the hell he said. Like... 100% just invented it. He read that Bregman wants to play in Detroit and made up a dumb story about it.

I think it's fair to say there are disadvantages when it comes to signing free agents in Toronto that go way beyond just being competitive. AA is the best GM in the league, but the only impact free agent he added in his entire tenure in Toronto was Russell Martin, who happens to be Canadian. If it was about being competitive and having star players locked up, why did AA suck at it so much too?

The biggest difference is that AA made up for it with big, bold, splashy, impact trades for top-end talent. Unless Gimenez magically turns back into his 2022 form, Atkins hasn't shown any ability to do that, especially in the last couple years.

 

[Kurtz]

Has nothing to do with the perception of Canada….but it does have to do with the reality of Canada…specifically the CRA.

I knew about Tavares being in a legal dispute with the CRA, I just recently found out Josh Donaldson and Russel Martin are also battling them in courts.



I agree the that the front office has to be expelled, but the tax situation isn’t helping things.

Donaldson and Martin recently won their case against the CRA, so hopefully that helps with free agents (for the Leafs too) and also frees up enough time for the CRA to go f*** itself.

 

[dredeye]

This is what I have been saying. They need to sign both of those guys. Just 1 of them is not going to be enough.


....... Well so much for Bregman.

Bo isn't staying but without Vlad we no centerpiece to build around. Why would anyone sign with term to come here. Best case we get term with a player opt out after the first year.

 

[Ale Brew]

For the record, the blogger who wrote that "article" completely made up everything about Bregman taking a shot at Toronto or whatever the hell he said. Like... 100% just invented it. He read that Bregman wants to play in Detroit and made up a dumb story about it.

I think it's fair to say there are disadvantages when it comes to signing free agents in Toronto that go way beyond just being competitive. AA is the best GM in the league, but the only impact free agent he added in his entire tenure in Toronto was Russell Martin, who happens to be Canadian. If it was about being competitive and having star players locked up, why did AA suck at it so much too?

The biggest difference is that AA made up for it with big, bold, splashy, impact trades for top-end talent. Unless Gimenez magically turns back into his 2022 form, Atkins hasn't shown any ability to do that, especially in the last couple years.

Yeah, it’s coming from Ben Verlander (a Tiger fan) saying Bregman wants to be a Tiger. Everything else is someone else’s conjecture.

Doesn’t mean Bregman signs with the Jays or doesn’t, it’s just more noise out there.

 

[Kurtz]

Yeah, it’s coming from Ben Verlander (a Tiger fan) saying Bregman wants to be a Tiger. Everything else is someone else’s conjecture.

Doesn’t mean Bregman signs with the Jays or doesn’t, it’s just more noise out there.

Bregman seems the most likely to turn into Springer to me, I'd rather Santander/Alonso

 

[Ale Brew]

Bregman seems the most likely to turn into Springer to me, I'd rather Santander/Alonso

I agree, but I’ve reached desperate fan status and would happily take him given he’d improve the team this year. Yet another reason why I am not running a pro sports team.

 

[phillipmike]

I want this over Bregman.

Give me Flaherty, Moncada, Profar and pen arms so we can keep our picks. Would also take Kim or Polanco instead of Moncada. Big draft coming up, need to keep our picks. If you compete, great, if not, easier to move these shorter term deals.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Why haven't the Blue Jays signed Vladdy Jr? | Mike Willner

Foul Territory

January 3, 2025

Baseball columnist and podcaster Mike Wilner talks about the Blue Jays offseason and why Toronto has not signed Vladimir Guerrero Jr

0:00 Blue Jays Offseason

2:56 Vladdy Jr

5:40 Free Agents Going to Toronto

7:46 Manoah

11:45 Front Office Job Security

18:25 Outro

 

[canucksfan]

Why haven't the Blue Jays signed Vladdy Jr? | Mike Willner

Foul Territory

January 3, 2025

Baseball columnist and podcaster Mike Wilner talks about the Blue Jays offseason and why Toronto has not signed Vladimir Guerrero Jr

0:00 Blue Jays Offseason

2:56 Vladdy Jr

5:40 Free Agents Going to Toronto

7:46 Manoah

11:45 Front Office Job Security

18:25 Outro

I only listened to the front office part but was surprised he thinks if the team fails, the current management group will still be there. A solid chance attendance gets really bad next year.

 

[Cloned]

I only listened to the front office part but was surprised he thinks if the team fails, the current management group will still be there. A solid chance attendance gets really bad next year.

Rogers likes Shapiro and he likes Atkins.

Ugh.

 

[mikeyz]

I only listened to the front office part but was surprised he thinks if the team fails, the current management group will still be there. A solid chance attendance gets really bad next year.

It’s like that guy Daniel on twitter said a couple of weeks ago.

If Vladdy and Bo walk for nothing, There is a very fair chance that the Blue Jays could be the worst team in the league at this time next year.

 

[Blitzkrug]

If they let them walk i will not be watching this team for a bit.

It's one thing to go through ebbs and flows. The Bautista days were fun, but had to end at some point. I kept watching knowing there was something resembling a future on the horizon even though they obviously sucked for a few years. Vladdy was waiting in the wings, as was Bo and the other 34 sons of former major leaguers they assembled.

This would be different. Eerily similar vibe to the Riccardi days where he was allowed to keep his job in perpetuity even though he sucked at it. It wasn't until they shitcanned him that they could actually properly build something.

If Vlad and Bo are allowed to walk with no return, you're looking at a post Royals WS rebuild type thing. No system, no future for a good 3-5 years while you try and fix it from the ground up. And that's assuming you hit on your picks.

 

[dredeye]

Crazy to think most of the issues can be traced back to not firing Montoyo until it was too late.

If they had turfed him and hired somebody who could actually teach the players how to be professionals and instilled a culture of responsibility, all that noise about the team being too loose doesn’t happen.

They wouldn’t have felt the need to blow up the room by trading away Teo and Gurriel.

Vladdy is probably happier to be with his friends here and likely already re-signs.

The team becomes more appealing for free agents and we sign at least one of the players that we missed out on this offseason.

Maybe they win a playoff series somewhere in there too.

The back to back rookie managers tells you these guys are in fact running everything behind the scenes and they are figure heads to take the heat. Zero reason for either to last as long as they did. They brought in Montoyo to work with the young spanish speakers. You bring up a great point. This team likely looks wildly different if they had just done what was needed when it was needed. Saying goes for Schneider now. Zero excuse for him still having a job aside from the fact that he's clearly just a body to place on the bench while they make all the actual decisions.

I only listened to the front office part but was surprised he thinks if the team fails, the current management group will still be there. A solid chance attendance gets really bad next year.

If management has a repeat season to last and we lose both Vlad and Bo for comp picks i'll be done with baseball for a very long time if these two get to keep their jobs. Apparently, they got to keep their jobs because fans didn't seem that upset. The boo bears better be real loud this year.

 

[tmlfan98]

Passan just obliterated Shatkins in this piece.

An unmitigated disaster. The Blue Jays whiffed on Soto. They whiffed on Burnes. They whiffed on Fried. They have not locked up Vladimir Guerrero Jr. to a contract extension, and every day without one brings him a day closer to his impending free agency.

The Blue Jays have a lot of good things to sell. Toronto is an incredible city. The team's spring complex and renovated Rogers Centre are both top facilities. They have money and are willing to spend it. But in an AL East with a Yankees team that made the World Series, an ascendant Red Sox team, an always-competitive Tampa Bay squad and a Baltimore Orioles unit that could be the best of them all, the Blue Jays don't rate quite the same. And with an uninspiring farm system -- multiple free agent players took notice -- and next to no foundational players under contract beyond 2025, ultimately the good is counterbalanced by the not so good.

There is time. Maybe Toronto can convince Bregman to be that foundational player going forward. Anthony Santander would hit plenty of home runs at Rogers Centre. A remade bullpen is a necessity, and Tanner Scott could anchor it. There is enough talent still in Toronto, particularly with a rotation that's among the best in the game, to spend its way to contention this year and give Guerrero even more reason to stay. What the Jays have -- and what can finally take them out of a yearlong rut that started with the pursuit of Shohei Ohtani and continues unabated into a third calendar year -- is money. And sooner than later, someone is bound to take it.