Good lord. You guys are starting to worry me. Not that I have much faith in Francis, I am just trying to stay optimistic. For my own mental health .. 
2024 25 Kraken Roster Discussion
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Fuhrious
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- Feb 3, 2004
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Realistically speaking I don’t think they embrace the tank enough to get under any of the teams below them, but I WOULD like to see them stay below the Flyers. Dunno if that works out or not.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
Yeah, more of the same of the last offseasons.
Trying to build through that is stupid and doesn't work like we've seen for ourselves.
Though, the guy in charge here is probably under quite some pressure and did stupid sh** last offseason already.
Good lord. You guys are starting to worry me. Not that I have much faith in Francis, I am just trying to stay optimistic. For my own mental health ..
What are you expecting?
The only high end guy that might make it to free agency is Marner and would cost at least $14M per season(thanks to the bidding war) for the next seven seasons.
To me, if you can't get that or can't trade for a guy like Pastrnak you've got to be more creative and talk to teams about their young RFA's or trading picks for guys closer to the league.
Other than that it would make way more sense to take on some contracts(with additional picks/prospects) in order to keep on building and adding assets for the time a difference maker might actually be available.
But I doubt that's an option with ownership thinking we're able to compete with a couple of changes and with a guy on the hot seat having to make additions to please ownership.
I guess the difference will just be it not being $5M but $6-8 M guys thanks to the cap going up.
Fuhrious
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I like Montour. I think he was a solid UFA signing, although the term still worries me.
I still wonder if he was a net negative for the team, however. I think there is a valid case that can be made that Dunn’s seeming “no f***s given” vibe and Evans’ general developmental regression is in part due to Montour coming in and effectively making them both slide down one spot. If he was a shutdown guy like Tanev he’d likely just complement them but as another PMD he’s essentially taking food (minutes?) off both their tables.
I still wonder if he was a net negative for the team, however. I think there is a valid case that can be made that Dunn’s seeming “no f***s given” vibe and Evans’ general developmental regression is in part due to Montour coming in and effectively making them both slide down one spot. If he was a shutdown guy like Tanev he’d likely just complement them but as another PMD he’s essentially taking food (minutes?) off both their tables.
RainyCityHockey
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I'm okay with Montour and he's been good this season.
Though, he might become a problem down the road thanks to his age and we've already wasted one of his good years.
The problem is Stephenson and anyone in the front office believing that signing him makes any kind of sense.
He's been better(scoring wise) as of late but that contract was bad the moment it was signed and won't age well at all.
Signing Montour (and Stephenson) only makes sense if the FO is planning to trade Dunn (and maybe one of the young C). The 'room' clearly got a bit scrambled as well.
Dowisetrepla
Registered User
Interesting point. Dunn has been a bit off all season and Evans has just been bad of late.
Dunn is a left hand shot montour is a right hand shot. Signing Montour doesn't mean we need to get rid of dunn especially when big rig's contract is up after the 25-26 season.
Regarding the center position why do we have to get rid a center player cause we signed stephenson. It make zero sense. Catton's more or else is gonna on the wing in the top 6 then after that our center pool in the prospect pool drops in quality. Signing Stephenson speaks volume on how the team sees the center position in our prospect pool.
That contract is not going to make a dent on the overall cap once it hits the back end especially with how high the cap will be and how player contracts costs will look from other players in the league. 6.1m will look pretty good in 4-5 years for him as a 3c.
I don't think we need to worry about Marner. First, he seems genuinely to want to stay in Toronto. But even if circumstances do not allow him to do so, why would he sign with a franchise that is not going to compete for a Cup in a while and who is still trying to figure out its identity? Mid-range free agents may just want to take the money and run, but elite free agents who are still in their prime are going to want to play for a contender.
You're probably right about Marner but it can be the other way around - a good/average player looks for good teams to play on while an elite player thinks he can make any team better. See Panarin going to the Rangers.
Dead Coyote
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I mean that team still had prime Zibenejad, Kreider, Buchnevevich and Strome, and had just drafted Kakko and Laf back to back with Adam Fox in his rookie year too. At the time it was probably the best young and upcoming team along with a great statistical team too.
They had the same record we have this year, with a much worse goal differential. Panarin didn't go there thinking that Kakko and Laf were going to lift them up, or even Adam Fox. He went there thinking he himself was going to lift them up.
Dead Coyote
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I mean they had 79 points and made the playoffs, had more wins than the next 5 people above them in conference, and were only 10 points back of first. Which was pretty damn good for a one line team that picked 1st overall. Had guys like Andersson and Kakko and Miller in the pipeline still. Honestly that team was one of the best young rebuilding teams that also was solid in the regular season anyways. No doubt Panarin wanted to carry the team on his back but it's not like he was the only guy there.
I'm talking about the Rangers the year before Panarin and you're talking about his first year there, when he was in the Hart conversation. Yeah they were a lot better with him and had a nice run thanks to him and Fox and Shesterkin when he arrived. Panarin was that damn good.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
There's been talk about Marner's camp not talking to Toronto and the Leafs offering him in a deal for Rantanen at the TDL.
That supposedly fell through because Marner didn't want to waive his NMC for Carolina.
I think he'll probably re-sign(and get that eight year) but if he hits free agency he could always just take the biggest bag of money and figure things out later. Meaning asking for a trade a couple years into the deal if the team doesn't perform.
I was interested to see how effective our players, with over 25 GP, point production is in relation to TOI:
Really hoping Matty bounces back next year because we need more from him as a 2C. Not being negative but outside of his 57 point season, he has left a lot of be desired.
Player | Position | GP | TOI | Total Points | Points/TOI |
Jordan Eberle | R | 29 | 459:22 | 21 | 0.0457 |
Shane Wright | C | 66 | 906:51 | 40 | 0.0441 |
Oliver Bjorkstrand | R | 61 | 943:52 | 37 | 0.0392 |
Jared McCann | L | 69 | 1189:43 | 46 | 0.0387 |
Kaapo Kakko | R | 36 | 631:46 | 23 | 0.0364 |
Chandler Stephenson | C | 68 | 1334:12 | 48 | 0.0360 |
Eeli Tolvanen | R | 69 | 968:28 | 33 | 0.0341 |
Jaden Schwartz | C | 69 | 1249:48 | 40 | 0.0320 |
Yanni Gourde | C | 36 | 557:45 | 17 | 0.0305 |
Matty Beniers | C | 69 | 1279:58 | 38 | 0.0297 |
Vince Dunn | D | 49 | 1086:09 | 32 | 0.0295 |
Andre Burakovsky | L | 66 | 955:43 | 26 | 0.0272 |
Brandon Montour | D | 68 | 1573:07 | 39 | 0.0248 |
Brandon Tanev | L | 60 | 836:24 | 17 | 0.0203 |
Ryker Evans | D | 61 | 1185:19 | 23 | 0.0194 |
Tye Kartye | L | 54 | 521:16 | 8 | 0.0154 |
Adam Larsson | D | 69 | 1461:49 | 22 | 0.0150 |
Mitchell Stephens | C | 28 | 258:19 | 3 | 0.0116 |
Jamie Oleksiak | D | 69 | 1314:09 | 14 | 0.0107 |
Joshua Mahura | D | 56 | 761:36 | 8 | 0.0105 |
Will Borgen | D | 33 | 501:51 | 2 | 0.0040 |
Really hoping Matty bounces back next year because we need more from him as a 2C. Not being negative but outside of his 57 point season, he has left a lot of be desired.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
Beniers is never going to be a great offensive player and the only way to "unlock" more offense from him would be to pair him with an high end line driving player.
Kakko's trying his best but is still below those high end guys.
The whole draft profile of Beniers stated that he's not all that good/great offensively but more of a 200 foot center that can score some.
So unless we get a Patrick Kane type of talent(maybe Caton can become that) to play next to Beniers, he's not going to have great offensive numbers, IMO.
Kakko's trying his best but is still below those high end guys.
The whole draft profile of Beniers stated that he's not all that good/great offensively but more of a 200 foot center that can score some.
So unless we get a Patrick Kane type of talent(maybe Caton can become that) to play next to Beniers, he's not going to have great offensive numbers, IMO.
That's my view of Matty as well. He's got a great motor but his vision and playmaking are not strengths of his. He needs to add some mass as well to help out with his 200 foot game. I'm not sure pairing him with a high end guy would not be a (relative) waste of the high end guy... Wright has more innate offensive talent and is coming along nicely right now, even when played down in the lineup. At some point something will have to give and Wright will play higher up in the lineup but for now, in the rump part of this season, this is fine.
Also isn't it typical the team finds form now that the season winds down? Playoff teams are starting to preserve energy for the post season and the bad teams are calling up rookies and up and coming players. It's nice to win of course but this team looks like it will shoot up the standings now and hurt its draft position...
Dead Coyote
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Whether we win or lose, this team should be calling up and young guys and giving them spots. That's how you develop your players and give them something to work towards. The more time passes the more we should be handing out ice time to guys like Winterton and Nyman.
I am not talking about expecting Beniers to be a PPG player. He never will. But I would expect a 2C on a good playoff team to be atleast a 60 point player who is elite (or very good) defensively. The way Wennberg plays right now sometime gives me a vibe of Wennberg 2.0. i.e slightly better offensive version of Wennberg.
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
Well, if you give him a high end offensive guy next to him he can certainly get around 60 points.
He's still got a chance for 20 goals this season, which is fine.
And unlike Wennberg Beniers at least shoots the puck and tries to score goals, so this might be a bit too much of an "overreacton" comparing him to Wennberg.
@CLW
Good point, Wright might be the guy to pair with that high end winger given that he's got a great shot and has looked good after being benched earlier in the season.
BTW: I hope that "high end guy" Francis brings in isn't someone like Sam Bennett and Francis hands him 7x$10M because he's won a cup(or maybe even two) and is a playoff performer.
I mean, Francis loves himself a center...
Certainly is a mild over-reaction but the team needs to get scoring from the 2nd line. If Beniers can be a 60 point C, that is all I want. To me Wennberg is a 35-40 point 3C. Outside of his first full season, where he hit 57 points, Beniers' body of work has been more of a 40-45 point C.
He is young, still only 22, so there is time and I am sure he will get better. But the lack of growth in the last 2 seasons certainly worries me.
