Speculation: 2024-25 - Free Agency/Trade Thread

[ADHB]

And the big moves PV did was trade Lindholm and Rakell and Manson? The latter 2 not returning first round picks like the Kase deal did? I just don't see a difference in rebuilding and intentionally not improving team. Yes we were a bad team, I'd say it was by design as evidenced by nit actively trying to improve the team. Do you really think BM was trying to win those years?

The first round pick was not simply for Kase. It was just as much if not more for taking the Backes contract off their hands. Kase wasn't an expiring asset he traded away for futures. BM certainly valued having Backes on the roster, which we know because he wasn't buried on IR or in the minors. He played whenever he was capable.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

acknowledging Murray making 3 top 10 picks, acquiring multiple additional late firsts and going on the record as being in a rebuild months before verbeek even got here is irrational?

I understand that verbeek definitely committed to the rebuild but his management team is absolutely the beneficiary of significant rebuilding efforts done by past management.

I agree the cupboard was full of good young prospects, a major reason I assume Verbeek took the job. But I think we were still trying to win making those 3 top 10 picks. He finally admitted to “the rebuild” before his forced resignation. I wonder if we trade all or some of Lindholm / Raks / Manson / des ? To be honest, it was the perfect time to blow it up, young good prospects already in the NHL or close in McT case, and blowing it up there gave us a bunch of ammo to be good in 3-5 years. We traded for Rico in 17 and we’re trying to win in 18’. 19’ we made 1 trade of Montour for future picks (even though why would you trade young defensemen if you are trying to rebuild. 20’ we trade Kase and swapped Ritchie for Danton. That doesn’t scream rebuild to me, trading your sub 25 year olds, and keeping the 27 and older guys.

And honestly I don’t mind trying to finish Getz’ career trying to win, even if we weren’t good enough to do so, but depending on what GMBM did at that trade deadline we really don’t know how committed he was to a full on rebuild.

 

[duckpuck]

And the big moves PV did was trade Lindholm and Rakell and Manson? The latter 2 not returning first round picks like the Kase deal did? I just don't see a difference in rebuilding and intentionally not improving team. Yes we were a bad team, I'd say it was by design as evidenced by nit actively trying to improve the team. Do you really think BM was trying to win those years?

Rakell and Manson would have returned first round picks if traded the prior year, which also would have evidenced an actual rebuild.

The difference between "rebuilding" and "not improving the team" is that in a rebuild, you trade things of value for future assets knowing you'll get worse in the short run (and thereby get a high draft pick). The Kings did this. Chicago did this to get Bedard. SJ did this. But Murray never did.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

We can all agree

We’re prob okay defensively and in goal.

Offense has potential, but could use a big name prime forward to go w/ the vets and the young guys.
Coaching may be a big part of the offensive issues/powerplay issues.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

So the big moves of BM rebuilding was trading Montour and Kase? And he gets credit for not being a buyer when we were a shit team? Like I said before, and yes I understand we disagree, which is fine, but I think we were just a bad team treading water, not a rebuilding team.

There's so much amiss here. After the WCF appearance, Eaves was hit with a medical condition that made him play only two games in 2017-18 and seven games in 2018-19. Kelser was playing on half a hip and loads of pain killers to hit 1,000 game milestone for seasons 2017-19.

If Kelser, Eaves, and Perry were all 100% healthy for their whole contracts, then we could have seen the WCF for three more seasons or possibly more.

Rakell found his goal scoring touch again in 2017-18 with 34 goals and led the team in scoring as well as the goalie duo of Gibby-Miller outstanding performances to get into the playoffs.

At the 2018-19 TDL, Murray went into rebuild mode.

• Traded Monty for a 1st.
• Bought out Perry (top-6F).
• Knew Eaves (top-6F) wouldn't play again.
• Knew Kelser (top-6F) wouldn't play again.
• Promoted Eakins from AHL head coach to NHL head coach for the rebuild.

Murray didn't go after big FA or high-level player trade after the 2018-19 TDL, but he did continue to purge the roster.

Ducks Finished

• 8th worst record in 2018-19. Added an extra 1st round pick.
• 5th worst record in 2019-20. Added an extra 1st round pick.
• 2nd worst record in 2020-21.

We can clearly reflect we were in a rebuild. Murray didn't blow the team up in one TDL event like Verbeek did. And it looked like that Murray route did work out in 2021-22, but Murray blew that opportunity due to his alcoholism and resigned in early November - in the middle of the 8-game winning streak. At the end of the 8-game winning streak, Anaheim was first in the Pacific with a 10-4-3 (23 pts) record.

 

[DavidBL]

Rakell and Manson would have returned first round picks if traded the prior year, which also would have evidenced an actual rebuild.

The difference between "rebuilding" and "not improving the team" is that in a rebuild, you trade things of value for future assets knowing you'll get worse in the short run (and thereby get a high draft pick). The Kings did this. Chicago did this to get Bedard. SJ did this. But Murray never did.

Agree to disagree. I don't think trading any of those 3 a year earlier makes much difference in their return and it's conjecture to say otherwise. We got high picks. Neither the kings or Chicago got their high picks solely from being bad. Chicago got LUCKY and won the lotto. You're nitpicking our picks because they were not all top 5, but our picks, outside of Bedard, have generally been better than the others you've mentioned. You're not seeing the forest for the trees, IMO. I don't know maybe I'm not. BMs gone let's work with what we have.

 

[ScarTroy]

There's so much amiss here. After the WCF appearance, Eaves was hit with a medical condition that made him play only two games in 2017-18 and seven games in 2018-19. Kelser was playing on half a hip and loads of pain killers to hit 1,000 game milestone for seasons 2017-19.

If Kelser, Eaves, and Perry were all 100% healthy for their whole contracts, then we could have seen the WCF for three more seasons or possibly more.

View attachment 958504

Rakell found his goal scoring touch again in 2017-18 with 34 goals and led the team in scoring as well as the goalie duo of Gibby-Miller outstanding performances to get into the playoffs.

At the 2018-19 TDL, Murray went into rebuild mode.

• Traded Monty for a 1st.
• Bought out Perry (top-6F).
• Knew Eaves (top-6F) wouldn't play again.
• Knew Kelser (top-6F) wouldn't play again.
• Promoted Eakins from AHL head coach to NHL head coach for the rebuild.

Murray didn't go after big FA or high-level player trade after the 2018-19 TDL, but he did continue to purge the roster.

Ducks Finished

• 8th worst record in 2018-19. Added an extra 1st round pick.
• 5th worst record in 2019-20. Added an extra 1st round pick.
• 2nd worst record in 2020-21.

We can clearly reflect we were in a rebuild. Murray didn't blow the team up in one TDL event like Verbeek did. And it looked like that Murray route did work out in 2021-22, but Murray blew that opportunity due to his alcoholism and resigned in early November - in the middle of the 8-game winning streak. At the end of the 8-game winning streak, Anaheim was first in the Pacific with a 10-4-3 (23 pts) record.

I’m sorry but none of this shows me anything that he was rebuilding other than using a bad team outside of 17 games in the season that alcoholism got the best of him. Am I supposed to be happy he traded Montour for a late first? Woohoo, the rebuild was off to a great start! If he really wanted to rebuild he trades Manson, Rakell, and (maybe) Lindholm earlier. He was unnecessarily treading water, and your glazing of 17 games in the 21-22 season doesn’t change that.

As soon as he saw Kesler and Eaves were done he should have tore it down. And I’ve never once said I’m mad about it because Getz deserved to keep going for it here if he wanted. All I’m saying is BM didn’t start the rebuild, and if you think he did then you can at least agree we should be thanking Jack Daniel’s he wasn’t here to see it through.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’d argue we were never rebuilding in the first place. We were retooling and just sucked as a team. Then Verbeek came in and tore everything to the ground.

Also, hagg complained about being the 7th d man last year, we had a very solid 7th d man, but traded him to get Trouba, the top 4 RHD Verbeek covered this offseason. It’s a win now / later move, that potentially messes up current roster build. He is supposed to find a 2nd 7th D man, ask him to sign an AHL contract and then take Hinds minutes ?

To say questionable rider construction because he didn’t sign 2 (7th D men) to the roster is a bit of a stretch. Its created a short term problem, than will not have any long term effects on our team. Zelly / Minty / helleson …. Playing 10 out of every 15 games isn’t going to do anything for 1-2 months.

Anybody who doesn’t see that the rebuild started with Verbeek just don’t care to be a rational human being. When you trade every UFA with any value on your roster, that is usually a sign that you are committing to rebuilding.

And my main point is this sub doesn’t know what player development is unless someone scores 100 pts. Why is McT being asked to play like a Brady or Matt T, as he gets a goal being in front of the net and tip last night. That’s the type of thing they are working on with McT and Leo. Their weaknesses. Rounding out their overall game. Sometimes there strengths take a back seat in order to round out their game. So I’m frustrated that this sub can’t understand basic fundamentals of player development, and point and XGF and the stat sheet to determine if it’s it working or not.

Man, you love moving goal posts, choose your own biased definition, and pivoting to something else to avoid being called out.

You... you are okay with Minty, Zell, and Helleson being on a rotation AND playing only 3rd pairing minutes nowadays. That's the opposite of development.

WTF? Did you just attack most of this board by saying we don't know what player development is?! Oh shit! You mean behaving like Cronin and forcing square pegs into round holes is great development because square pegs' weakness is fitting into a round hole. These are Stepford players that fit into a particular player skill a coach wants. Who cares what their actual top traits are when they needed to be molded in a specific way the GM/Coach wants. Yikes!

You develop players better that accentuates their best traits while slowly improving their weaknesses or even hide their weaknesses. Cronin took a 60+ point player who also scored 23 goals for two consecutive seasons and took away that offensive power to improve their defense by 15%. Is that your definition of "proper" development?

Verbeek learned his lesson when he took away defensive physicality from this team for a year and a quarter by brining players who's talent set were being defensively physical in Gudas, Lybushkin, Dumo, and Trouba. Verbeek isn't planning on making Zell a shutdown defenseman. Far from it. Which is why Zell's OZ starts are nearly 60%. Or do you wish to die on the hill that Zell needs to learn how to be a shutdown defenseman because that is his weakness? That is your definition of "proper" development, right?

 

[MCB]

I know I'm in the minority but I haven't been a fan of dumo, don't get me wrong, he's not sbisa bad, but I feel like when I get annoyed with a botched pass or receiving one it's usually him involved. He's fine for what we need him for, and the time being, but if he isn't gone after TDL I'll be annoyed.

 

[2faded]

I know I'm in the minority but I haven't been a fan of dumo, don't get me wrong, he's not sbisa bad, but I feel like when I get annoyed with a botched pass or receiving one it's usually him involved. He's fine for what we need him for, and the time being, but if he isn't gone after TDL I'll be annoyed.

I think he's been solid. Idc either way if he's traded or not though.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’m sorry but none of this shows me anything that he was rebuilding other than using a bad team outside of 17 games in the season that alcoholism got the best of him. Am I supposed to be happy he traded Montour for a late first? Woohoo, the rebuild was off to a great start! If he really wanted to rebuild he trades Manson, Rakell, and (maybe) Lindholm earlier. He was unnecessarily treading water, and your glazing of 17 games in the 21-22 season doesn’t change that.

As soon as he saw Kesler and Eaves were done he should have tore it down. And I’ve never once said I’m mad about it because Getz deserved to keep going for it here if he wanted. All I’m saying is BM didn’t start the rebuild, and if you think he did then you can at least agree we should be thanking Jack Daniel’s he wasn’t here to see it through.

I didn't realize the hockey universe had bequeathed the definition of rebuild to your own whims, which is what you're doing by stating "none of this shows me anything he was rebuilding".

Verbeek is doing the same thing Murray was doing in his rebuild, finishing weak to accrue top prospects and waiting on them to develop. That's what rebuilding is.

Why didn't Verbeek also trade away Rico, Silf, and Fowler at the 2022 TDL? If we're to abide by your definition of a rebuild is the team to be torn down, then Verbeek isn't rebuilding? Rico netted a 1st round pick years later. Fowler got a 2nd round pick. Guess the definition of rebuild is "ScarTroy fluid".

One of the reasons why Verbeek traded for Trouba is to be that veteran layer presence after Gudas is gone. Killorn is one of those veteran layer presence with his 4-year contract. Strome and his 5-year contract is also one of those veteran layer presence. Welp, Murray had those types veteran layer presences already in place. He was waiting for the youths to make their way to the NHL. Things looked very bright in 2021-22 because those vets did provide ample sheltering and support. Verbeek is still trying to figure out how to provide ample sheltering and support for our youths.

---

Your recollection of the 2021-22 season is on par with many on here such that you don't even know that season at all. You scoff at that 17-game set, but don't have damned clue about that season.

2021-22 Season

• Nov 16th: 10-4-3 (23 pts) and 1st in Pacific
• Jan 31st ( at all-star break): 23-16-9 (55 pts) 2nd in Pacific
• Mar 13th (at TDL): 27-25-10 (64 pts) 6th in Pacific (4 pts away from a playoff spot)

Manson was on IR for 12 out of 14 games since All-Star Break. Verbeek didn't try to help the club and sat on his hands. Upon returning from IR, Verbeek let Manson play 2 games and then traded him. Murray would have tried to acquire a shutdown RD on the cheap.

As for waiting for prospects, we saw a lot of good things happen in that 2021-22 season:

• C Zegras broke out for 61 pts and 23 goals in his rookie NHL season.
• RD Drysdale's offense popped off for 32 points and lasted 81 games in his rookie NHL season.
• G Dostal played for the Gulls and Ducks in his first season on NA ice.
• C Mac was tearing up the OHL (championship), Mem cup, and WJC-20 (gold and MVP).
• NCAA left d-men Thrun and LaCombe looked great as both had 30 or more points. Also, Verbeek tried to sign both after their junior season.
• LD Zell won his first of two WHL Def Player of the Year awards.

We thought we found our future 1C and 2C with Z and Mac. Drysdale would be Robin to Lindholm's Batman. Fowler was being utilized as an OFD with Manson the shutdown guy. The future in net was here in Dostal. And we started hitting on our defenseman again once we started doing balanced drafts in 2019.

---

Verbeek's own Words

From Detroit News:

Named general manager of the Anaheim Ducks on Thursday, Verbeek is going to an organization in third place in the Pacific Division, in a wild-card spot, and past the early stages of the rebuild phase.​

​

"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."​

Guess you should tell GM Verbeek that what Murray did wasn't a rebuild.

 

[ScarTroy]

I didn't realize the hockey universe had bequeathed the definition of rebuild to your own whims, which is what you're doing by stating "none of this shows me anything he was rebuilding".

Verbeek is doing the same thing Murray was doing in his rebuild, finishing weak to accrue top prospects and waiting on them to develop. That's what rebuilding is.

Why didn't Verbeek also trade away Rico, Silf, and Fowler at the 2022 TDL? If we're to abide by your definition of a rebuild is the team to be torn down, then Verbeek isn't rebuilding? Rico netted a 1st round pick years later. Fowler got a 2nd round pick. Guess the definition of rebuild is "ScarTroy fluid".

One of the reasons why Verbeek traded for Trouba is to be that veteran layer presence after Gudas is gone. Killorn is one of those veteran layer presence with his 4-year contract. Strome and his 5-year contract is also one of those veteran layer presence. Welp, Murray had those types veteran layer presences already in place. He was waiting for the youths to make their way to the NHL. Things looked very bright in 2021-22 because those vets did provide ample sheltering and support. Verbeek is still trying to figure out how to provide ample sheltering and support for our youths.

---

Your recollection of the 2021-22 season is on par with many on here such that you don't even know that season at all. You scoff at that 17-game set, but don't have damned clue about that season.

2021-22 Season

• Nov 16th: 10-4-3 (23 pts) and 1st in Pacific
• Jan 31st ( at all-star break): 23-16-9 (55 pts) 2nd in Pacific
• Mar 13th (at TDL): 27-25-10 (64 pts) 6th in Pacific (4 pts away from a playoff spot)

Manson was on IR for 12 out of 14 games since All-Star Break. Verbeek didn't try to help the club and sat on his hands. Upon returning from IR, Verbeek let Manson play 2 games and then traded him. Murray would have tried to acquire a shutdown RD on the cheap.

As for waiting for prospects, we saw a lot of good things happen in that 2021-22 season:

• C Zegras broke out for 61 pts and 23 goals in his rookie NHL season.
• RD Drysdale's offense popped off for 32 points and lasted 81 games in his rookie NHL season.
• G Dostal played for the Gulls and Ducks in his first season on NA ice.
• C Mac was tearing up the OHL (championship), Mem cup, and WJC-20 (gold and MVP).
• NCAA left d-men Thrun and LaCombe looked great as both had 30 or more points. Also, Verbeek tried to sign both after their junior season.
• LD Zell won his first of two WHL Def Player of the Year awards.

We thought we found our future 1C and 2C with Z and Mac. Drysdale would be Robin to Lindholm's Batman. Fowler was being utilized as an OFD with Manson the shutdown guy. The future in net was here in Dostal. And we started hitting on our defenseman again once we started doing balanced drafts in 2019.

---

Verbeek's own Words

From Detroit News:

Named general manager of the Anaheim Ducks on Thursday, Verbeek is going to an organization in third place in the Pacific Division, in a wild-card spot, and past the early stages of the rebuild phase.​

​

"This team doesn't need to be rebuilt; they're in the middle of their rebuild, so this is a great opportunity to take this team forward and turn them into a contender," Verbeek said during his introductory press conference. "You don't have to come in there and look to take a long time. There's good players in the NHL, good players in the minors and there are players that have been drafted. There's a lot coming to support the growth of this team. That's truly what I'm excited about."​

Guess you should tell GM Verbeek that what Murray did wasn't a rebuild.

Are you asking me why PV didn’t sell 4 years of Cam with trade protection on his contract, really? Sounds like a great plan for future negotiations when we are contending. Thanks for bringing that one up. As for Rico, do you think Rico gets more than a first a season earlier? I don’t think by much he would, so the value of keeping him another season and still getting a first a year later outweighs selling him earlier. Plus who is to say he didn’t try and no one bit? Maybe you can ask him since you have the direct line and he already told you about the Trouba extension that outlasts Gudas. And as for Silf, whatever, if you think tearing it down means getting a 2nd or 3rd for Silf by all means run a victory lap for pointing out that PV wasn’t tearing it down because he didn’t make that move.

Are you trying to say that a tear down rebuild means to sell off every single vet, or are you putting those words into my mouth because it makes you feel like you had a “gotcha” moment? BM traded (not sold) one meaningful vet in the time we should have been rebuilding according to you, and that was Cogliano.

I do appreciate that you pointed it that BM was sitting on his hands with a weak team waiting for prospects to develop, you call that rebuild, I don’t, but whatever. Where you are wrong though is saying that’s what PV is doing. If PV was doing what Murray did he’d sell Zellweger for a late first like BM did with Montour.

Also to your last point, you should tell PV putting kids straight into the NHL isn’t letting them marinate since we are taking everything PV says at face value. Or are we only doing that when it suits you to believe Verbeek’s media speak?

 

[Hey234]

The offense and especially the PP took a hit when Zegras got injured. Terry's absence is extremely noticeable. It's clear how impactful even one offensive player can be. I believe in Sennecke but it's going to be awhile before he's that guy. The Ducks need Zegras and Terry back, and they desperately need a high end forward.

While I like him, I'm not sure I want to throw all my eggs in the Rantanen basket. If it doesn't work out like Marchessault or Stamkos, then the Ducks could be left with nothing again. I think a trade is the most realistic way the Ducks are going to be able to find that type of player.

 

[duckpuck]

Agree to disagree. I don't think trading any of those 3 a year earlier makes much difference in their return and it's conjecture to say otherwise. We got high picks. Neither the kings or Chicago got their high picks solely from being bad. Chicago got LUCKY and won the lotto. You're nitpicking our picks because they were not all top 5, but our picks, outside of Bedard, have generally been better than the others you've mentioned. You're not seeing the forest for the trees, IMO. I don't know maybe I'm not. BMs gone let's work with what we have.

The bolded statement is a real reach. It is proven that a good player like lindholm returns more if the acquiring team gets 2 playoff runs. It would have made a material difference. Same for the other guys. At a minimum, Murray could have traded him in the offseason and got a better haul.

Chicago didn't just get lucky. In the 2022 offseason before the draft, they gutted their team. They traded Dach (a very promising young player who was the third pick in his draft) for futures, Debrincat for futures, and took on some other team's dead weight for futures (Petr Mrazek). During the season, that continued including trading Kane. A literal fire sale to start a rebuild and put themselves in a position to get bedard. Yes they had some draft luck - they moved up two spots. But to a large extent they made their own luck but tearing down the team so that they were in a position to get lucky.

That is in contrast to the Murray years, where Murray hung on to players like Rakell, Lindholm and Manson too long, thereby delaying the rebuild. The long term deals with Henrique and Silf were also pretty questionable (though I think understandable). But they should have been traded if possible as well.

I do acknowledge that Murray and his staff did do a good job drafting in the 6-10 spot. They generally picked the "right" players and identified talent. I just wish they had been picking a few spots higher because it is the difference between Sanderson or Stuetzle vs Drysdale . Or getting a crack at Jack Hughes/Seider/Cozens instead of Zegras.

 

[Gliff]

The offense and especially the PP took a hit when Zegras got injured. Terry's absence is extremely noticeable. It's clear how impactful even one offensive player can be. I believe in Sennecke but it's going to be awhile before he's that guy. The Ducks need Zegras and Terry back, and they desperately need a high end forward.

While I like him, I'm not sure I want to throw all my eggs in the Rantanen basket. If it doesn't work out like Marchessault or Stamkos, then the Ducks could be left with nothing again. I think a trade is the most realistic way the Ducks are going to be able to find that type of player.

Stamkos and March are very different situations then Ratanen or Marner.

Signing either of those guys to 7 year deals takes them through their age 34 season. March and Stamkos are starting their contracts in their age 34 season. This would give us the best forward this team has had since like 2014 Getzlaf.

I'm all in on one of those 2 guys.

 

[NWWisconsinDuck]

Stamkos and March are very different situations then Ratanen or Marner.

Signing either of those guys to 7 year deals takes them through their age 34 season. March and Stamkos are starting their contracts in their age 34 season. This would give us the best forward this team has had since like 2014 Getzlaf.

I'm all in on one of those 2 guys.

Yep. I think you pay whatever you need to to get one of them.

I also believe Marner’s playoff performance is put under an unfair microscope simply because he plays in Toronto.

 

[Hey234]

Stamkos and March are very different situations then Ratanen or Marner.

Signing either of those guys to 7 year deals takes them through their age 34 season. March and Stamkos are starting their contracts in their age 34 season. This would give us the best forward this team has had since like 2014 Getzlaf.

I'm all in on one of those 2 guys.

I don't disagree. My point was that the likelihood of them signing here is probably low. I don't want another situation like last summer where top UFAs sign elsewhere and the Ducks are left empty-handed.

 

[ScarTroy]

I don't disagree. My point was that the likelihood of them signing here is probably low. I don't want another situation like last summer where top UFAs sign elsewhere and the Ducks are left empty-handed.

But those trades would still be an option then. I guess if PV finds something sooner pull the trigger, but if we could get Rantanen for free other than cap space I’m all in. Don’t want Marner as much, but would still be fine with it. It’s just the hard part with trades is if we’re going to get someone that makes a difference offensively we’ll have to deal quantity, because we don’t gave equal quality to send back.

 

[All Mighty]

I haven’t listened yet, but this is interesting. Gibson has been fantastic recently.

 

[Static]

It will be tough to retain and tie up two retainment slots for multiple years. I have to say I'd be surprised if he's moved at this point.

 

[All Mighty]

I haven’t listened yet, but this is interesting. Gibson has been fantastic recently.

Worth noting that Philly has 3 1sts and 3 2nds in the 2025 draft. They also could send back Fedotov or Ersson as part of a deal (they both have 1 more year after this year on their deals).

 

[Rasp]

Worth noting that Philly has 3 1sts and 3 2nds in the 2025 draft. They also could send back Fedotov or Ersson as part of a deal (they both have 1 more year after this year on their deals).

I hope we dont get 2025 picks from him but looks like that is the most likely scenario if he is moved this year.